Once the state takes over GM, the new car models will be like this.

**Kristy** · 05-20-2009, 05:18 PM

Originally posted by Nitro Express

An investor who runs a holdings company out of Singapore. Oil consumption has gone through the roof due to the modernization of developing countries. Saudi Arabia is running out of oil. They don't admit it but they are pumping their wells full of sea water, a sign that those are so low they have to bring the oil to the top. The UK is running out of it's North Sea oil as well as Mexico.

So that's what you basing this on? An investor who has a book to sell? Nothing else? Just this douchebag and his whole Coast-To-Coast-esque doom & gloom blathering?

While it may be true that some reserves have bleed dry and that more about to be what our investor fails to speak of is all the wells that have been drilled and capped. Who really and honestly knows how much lies in one reserve over another? Fifteen years seems like a haphazard estimate to me unless he's hinting at a total economy collapse (would be more of a reality than the world running out of Texas tea) upon which oil would become scarce real quick.

**ELVIS** · 05-20-2009, 05:19 PM

Originally posted by Nitro Express

Saudi Arabia is running out of oil. They don't admit it but they are pumping their wells full of sea water, a sign that those are so low they have to bring the oil to the top.

That's the biggest bunch of bullshit i've ever heard on any website or news outlet...

LMAO!

**standin** · 05-20-2009, 05:38 PM

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<title>Historic Oil & Gas Prices (Charts)</title>
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<body bgcolor="white" text="black" link="#000073" alink="#000073" vlink="#000073">
<center>
<pre>
</pre>
HISTORIC OIL PRICES ADJUSTED FOR INFLATION

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="2" width="150">
<tr valign="top">
<td width="50%" align="left" valign="top">YEAR 
 
1865 
1866 
1867 
1868 
1869 
1870 
1871 
1872 
1873 
1874 
1875 
1876 
1877 
1878 
1879 
1880 
1881 
1882 
1883 
1884 
1885 
1886 
1887 
1888 
1889 
1890 
1891 
1892 
1893 
1894 
1895 
1896 
1897 
1898 
1899 
1900 
1901 
1902 
1903 
1904 
1905 
1906 
1907 
1908 
1909 
1910 
1911 
1912 
1913 
1914 
1915 
1916 
1917 
1918 
1919 
1920 
1921 
1922 
1923 
1924 
1925 
1926 
1927 
1928 
1929 
1930 
1931 
1932 
1933 
1934 
1935 
1936 
1937 
1938 
1939 
1940 
1941 
1942 
1943 
1944 
1945 
1946 
1947 
1948 
1949 
1950 
1951 
1952 
1953 
1954 
1955 
1956 
1957 
1958 
1959 
1960 
1961 
1962 
1963 
1964 
1965 
1966 
1967 
1968 
1969 
1970 
1971 
1972 
1973 
1974 
1975 
1976 
1977 
1978 
1979 
1980 
1981 
1982 
1983 
1984 
1985 
1986 
1987 
1988 
1989 
1990 
1991 
1992 
1993 
1994 
1995 
1996 
1997 
1998 
1999 (2 mos) 
 
</td>
<td align="right" valign="top">$/BO 
 
66.03 
38.38 
25.67 
40.54 
65.87 
45.88 
54.48 
49.03 
23.54 
15.04 
13.44 
35.95 
35.00 
17.21 
13.96 
15.79 
14.92 
12.65 
17.84 
14.27 
15.33 
12.37 
11.67 
11.32 
13.41 
13.41 
9.75 
8.88 
10.45 
12.54 
19.71 
18.05 
12.78 
15.04 
21.24 
22.37 
18.05 
15.04 
16.99 
14.98 
10.80 
12.71 
12.54 
12.09 
12.19 
10.63 
10.25 
12.43 
15.41 
12.83 
10.00 
17.03 
22.73 
24.26 
20.98 
27.89 
13.67 
14.14 
12.56 
13.17 
15.44 
16.86 
11.54 
10.59 
11.64 
10.91 
6.11 
8.97 
7.70 
12.11 
11.36 
12.46 
13.35 
12.34 
11.36 
11.52 
12.75 
12.67 
11.54 
10.97 
10.88 
12.29 
15.50 
18.25 
16.54 
16.51 
16.48 
15.27 
15.83 
16.29 
16.15 
16.33 
17.82 
16.76 
15.72 
15.49 
15.30 
15.20 
14.98 
14.75 
14.46 
14.32 
14.11 
13.80 
13.92 
13.59 
13.68 
13.12 
14.57 
24.24 
24.38 
23.86 
23.60 
23.27 
30.37 
46.53 
60.32 
49.09 
42.45 
40.65 
36.28 
18.18 
21.97 
17.32 
20.98 
25.28 
19.81 
18.38 
15.90 
14.20 
15.44 
21.06 
18.63 
11.92 
10.87 
 
</td>
</tr>
</table>

<pre>
<a name="gas"></a>
</pre>
HISTORIC GAS PRICES ADJUSTED FOR INFLATION

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="2" width="150">
<tr valign="top">
<td width="50%" align="left" valign="top">YEAR 
 
1950 
1951 
1952 
1953 
1954 
1955 
1956 
1957 
1958 
1959 
1960 
1961 
1962 
1963 
1964 
1965 
1966 
1967 
1968 
1969 
1970 
1971 
1972 
1973 
1974 
1975 
1976 
1977 
1978 
1979 
1980 
1981 
1982 
1983 
1984 
1985 
1986 
1987 
1988 
1989 
1990 
1991 
1992 
1993 
1994 
1995 
1996 
1997 
1998 
1999 (3 mos) 
</td>
<td align="right">$/MCF 
 
0.37 
0.50 
0.42 
0.46 
0.53 
0.53 
0.54 
0.55 
0.58 
0.59 
0.63 
0.69 
0.72 
0.73 
0.75 
0.76 
0.76 
0.74 
0.72 
0.68 
0.65 
0.63 
0.64 
0.68 
0.83 
1.02 
1.46 
2.18 
2.33 
2.67 
3.21 
3.55 
4.70 
4.54 
4.19 
3.72 
2.49 
2.10 
2.11 
2.00 
1.98 
1.76 
1.87 
2.08 
1.81 
1.50 
2.21 
2.46 
1.92 
1.70 
</td>
</tr>
</table>

</center>
<div align="left">

Historic Oil & Gas Prices (Charts)

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**Nickdfresh** · 05-20-2009, 10:10 PM

Originally posted by Kristy

So that's what you basing this on? An investor who has a book to sell? Nothing else? Just this douchebag and his whole Coast-To-Coast-esque doom & gloom blathering?

While it may be true that some reserves have bleed dry and that more about to be what our investor fails to speak of is all the wells that have been drilled and capped. Who really and honestly knows how much lies in one reserve over another? Fifteen years seems like a haphazard estimate to me unless he's hinting at a total economy collapse (would be more of a reality than the world running out of Texas tea) upon which oil would become scarce real quick.

The problem isn't that there isn't any oil left - the problem is that the amount of oil is increasingly decentralized as fields are sucked dry. This means that smaller pockets of oil are increasingly costly to extract from with lower payoff. It's more about economic viability of getting to, and delivering, the oil than it is about running "out" of it...

That being said, it's probably more than 15 years away. But once everyone in China and India realize the two-car garage "American Dream," we're fucked...

**Nickdfresh** · 05-20-2009, 10:11 PM

Stricter mpg rules may help automakers
Move by Obama could help revive industry in long run, experts say
By Roger Fillion
msnbc.com contributor
updated 1:21 p.m. ET, Wed., May 20, 2009

President Barack Obama is trying to shove U.S. automakers toward the future, a high-stakes wager that could help revive the industry in the long run, experts say.

By issuing rules aimed at sharply boosting vehicle gasoline mileage and slashing greenhouse gas emissions, experts say the Obama plan is just what carmakers need given the prospect of higher gas prices and worries about global warming.

“If you look toward the future, these standards will put carmakers in a more competitive position as they address future requirements and trends,” said Douglas Allen, associate professor of management at the University of Denver’s Daniels College of Business.

At a White House ceremony Tuesday where he was flanked by top auto executives, union leaders, and environmentalists, the president said the rules would give auto companies “clear certainty” at a time when the industry is weathering a “historic crisis.”

Experts who support the plan say it will deliver needed change: Automakers will have to plow research dollars and know-how into cleaner engines, better transmissions and alternative-fuel vehicles such as hybrid and electric plug-in cars. Diesel engines also are expected to get more scrutiny and use.

The University of Denver’s Allen, who has worked in and studied the auto industry for decades, acknowledged the new rules would impose short-term pain as automakers retool factories, cars and technologies to meet the stricter requirements. But over the long term, automakers would gain, predicted Allen.

“Without these guidelines, the U.S. auto industry would come up short," he said. He said the rules clarify the road forward for car companies and remove the threat that individual states would impose a patchwork of regulations governing fuel efficiency and new vehicle carbon emissions.

Automakers, in fact, reversed decades of opposition to stricter mileage standards by supporting the administration’s new rules — likely spurred in part by the industry’s heavy reliance on bailout money from U.S. taxpayers. Auto executives, for their part, said they like the plan’s unified approach to rulemaking.

"For seven long years, there has been a debate over whether states or the federal government should regulate autos," Dave McCurdy, president of the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, said in a statement. "President Obama's announcement ends that old debate by starting a federal rulemaking to set a national program."

Still, some experts argue the changes amount to harmful government meddling in the auto industry when the Big Three are struggling to pay bills and consumers are avoiding new car purchases.

Chrysler LLC is in bankruptcy and General Motors Corp. may follow suit. The new plan, which will result in Americans driving smaller, more fuel-efficient cars and trucks, will cut the industry's profit margins and could weaken them further.

“Nobody makes money producing small cars in North America,” said Dennis DesRosiers, president of DesRosiers Automotive Consultants Inc. in Toronto.

The plan’s 30 percent boost in fuel economy would translate into a 35.5 mile per gallon average for cars and light trucks in 2016, four years earlier than the existing law called for. New passenger cars sold here would need to average 39 mpg, up from the current 27.5 mpg. Light trucks, which include pickups and sport-utility vehicles, would need to average 30 mpg, up from 23.

The White House projects the plan ultimately would save 1.8 billion barrels of oil. The administration also forecasts it will cut greenhouse gas emissions by 900 million metric tons — the equivalent of taking 177 million cars off the road.

An administration official told reporters the extra cost per vehicle would amount to about $600 per car in 2016, on top of the estimated $700-per-car cost of the fleetwide corporate average fuel economy, or CAFE, standards carmakers already had to achieve by that year. The administration maintains that resulting fuel savings will offset the added cost.

Jim Kliesch, a senior engineer with the Union of Concerned Scientists’ Clean Vehicles program, said automakers can use off-the-shelf technology, including cleaner engines, more efficient transmissions, better air conditioning systems and cleaner fuels, to meet the standards.

"This agreement is the breakthrough the nation needs to cut carbon emissions and help consumers deal with volatile gas prices," Kliesch said. "Automakers have the technology they need to meet and beat these standards while saving consumers billions."

Jeff Boyd, president of electric carmaker Wheego Electric Cars in Atlanta, said the rules are “critical” for the survival of the U.S. auto industry. ”The world doesn’t need another internal-combustion car,” said Boyd, whose company is a division of RTEV Inc.

But Mark Zupan, dean of the Simon Graduate School of Business at the University of Rochester, argued the Obama rules amount to excessive government interference in the auto industry and ultimately will hurt carmakers 10 to 20 years more from now.

“We’ve had plenty of cases where governments run cars companies, and it doesn’t work,” said Zupan, a macroeconomist specializing in energy issues. He pointed to the former East Germany, among other places, and the communist country’s Trabant automobile.

The vehicle was produced for about three decades, through the 1980s.Time magazine declared the 1975 Trabant among the 50 worst vehicles of all time. “You can look back at places like Russia and East Germany, where they ended up with jokes of automobile companies,” said Zupan.

He said a better idea for the Obama administration would be to increase the federal gasoline tax so market forces and consumer choice would dictate the changes needed for the auto industry to survive.

“It leaves power to the people as opposed to keeping power in the hands of Washington bureaucrats deciding what should be produced and where,” said Zupan.

Jack Nerad, executive editorial director and executive market analyst for Kelley Blue Book and kbb.com, said it’s too early to know the ultimate impact of the Obama plan on U.S. carmakers.

He said the new rules will ensure that carmakers “immediately reconsider” conventional hybrids, plug-in hybrids, electrically powered vehicles and battery electrics. Rather than bet on one technology, carmakers will offer a variety of vehicles to consumers in the next decade.

“On the face of it, the new regulations seem to be yet another blow to the beleaguered American auto manufacturers since consumers regard high fuel efficiency as a province of the import-brand manufacturers,” said Nerad.

“That blow could be softened somewhat, though, by the proposed multibillion-dollar federal subsidies to foster technology that would increase vehicle fuel efficiency,” added Nerad.

“But the last chapter on this has not been written. In fact, this seems like the opening paragraph in a completely new book.”

© 2009 msnbc.com

**Nitro Express** · 05-22-2009, 02:11 AM

Originally posted by Kristy

So that's what you basing this on? An investor who has a book to sell? Nothing else? Just this douchebag and his whole Coast-To-Coast-esque doom & gloom blathering?

While it may be true that some reserves have bleed dry and that more about to be what our investor fails to speak of is all the wells that have been drilled and capped. Who really and honestly knows how much lies in one reserve over another? Fifteen years seems like a haphazard estimate to me unless he's hinting at a total economy collapse (would be more of a reality than the world running out of Texas tea) upon which oil would become scarce real quick.

Jim Rogers ran the Quantum Fund with George Soros and is well traveled and knows the world. I have followed his investment advice for 25 years and it has done me well. Not to mention my degrees are in international finance and economics. I used the clip as an example. Remember I'm saying cheap oil. Sure there is oil in the Alberta tar sands but it takes a lot of energy to extract the oil and it's not cost effective. There hasn't been a major oil discovery in 40 years. Why do you think NATO is making a major effort to secure control of the Caspian basin? That is the last region of cheap oil and Europe and North America wants it.

**ELVIS** · 05-22-2009, 03:15 AM

Originally posted by Nitro Express

There hasn't been a major oil discovery in 40 years.

Discovery backs theory oil not 'fossil fuel'
New evidence supports premise that Earth produces endless supply

February 01, 2008

Dana Gas Confirms Oil Discovery in Egypt

07-03-2008

UK oil discovery in Central North Sea

February 12, 2009

Oil discoveries around Uganda's Lake Albert - Bishop sees no return to civil war despite rebel warning

April 02, 2009

But my point is, Oil is basically everywhere regarding how deep you drill, and the technology gets better everyday...and "peak oil" is a myth...

One more thing...Dude, please DO NOT embedd or attach some lecture bullshit to a thread. It's aggravating as hell...especially when i'm trying to record with my computer...

**ELVIS** · 05-22-2009, 03:16 AM

Originally posted by Nitro Express

There hasn't been a major oil discovery in 40 years.

Discovery backs theory oil not 'fossil fuel'
New evidence supports premise that Earth produces endless supply

February 01, 2008

Dana Gas Confirms Oil Discovery in Egypt

07-03-2008

UK oil discovery in Central North Sea

February 12, 2009

Oil discoveries around Uganda's Lake Albert - Bishop sees no return to civil war despite rebel warning

April 02, 2009

But my point is, Oil is basically everywhere depending on how deep you drill, and the technology gets better everyday...and "peak oil" is a myth...

One more thing...Dude, please DO NOT embedd or attach some lecture bullshit to a thread. It's aggravating as hell...especially when i'm trying to record with my computer...

**Nitro Express** · 05-22-2009, 04:11 AM

Originally posted by Nickdfresh

The problem isn't that there isn't any oil left - the problem is that the amount of oil is increasingly decentralized as fields are sucked dry. This means that smaller pockets of oil are increasingly costly to extract from with lower payoff. It's more about economic viability of getting to, and delivering, the oil than it is about running "out" of it...

That being said, it's probably more than 15 years away. But once everyone in China and India realize the two-car garage "American Dream," we're fucked...

You get it! There will always be oil but we need to keep our easy to get reserves for a chemical base and not fuel. Talk to any industrial chemist worth their salt and they will tell you oil is more valuable for making various chemicals and it's pure stupidity to burn it for fuel. It's technically easier to switch to another fuel than it is to replace oil as a base for various chemical derivatives. When I was watching Apollo missions go to the moon as a little kid, I thought by 2009 we would have flying cars instead of cars that are basically not too far removed from what they were when I was a little kid. It's still rubber wheels rolling powered by pistons being pushed by petrolium explosions.

**Nitro Express** · 05-22-2009, 04:18 AM

Hitler gave us the Volkswagon Beetle.

I can't wait to see what Obama gives us. :D

Once the state takes over GM, the new car models will be like this.

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