World War III

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  • Nitro Express
    DIAMOND STATUS
    • Aug 2004
    • 32819

    I was talking to someone who was in Falluja and he said the 7,62x39 round was very effective. He said he was getting good hits on people with the M855 round and he had to shoot several times to drop the person. One square hit on the Marines he was fighting with took them out. In winter conditions an AKM is nicer to operate with gloves on your hands. The Ruskies did design them good for that. Another good thing about AKM’s is the standard steel magazines last forever. You can pound nails with those. The drawback is they are heavy but it’s definitely the arm the peasants no worries rifle.
    No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

    Comment

    • Nitro Express
      DIAMOND STATUS
      • Aug 2004
      • 32819

      Rig a red dot on a AKM that isn’t shot out and it’s a deadly 300 meter rifle. It’s going to do the job.
      No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

      Comment

      • Nitro Express
        DIAMOND STATUS
        • Aug 2004
        • 32819

        We really dropped the ball with post Soviet Russia. We could have avoided the whole mess but our military industrial complex loves war profits too much. They will always create situations to justify a war. My main concern is the bear can bite hard if you corner it. Playing these kind of games with a nuclear power is very dangerous. Now we’ve pushed Russia and China together. You wan’t to keep those two separate. Now they are waging economic warfare on us and doing a pretty good job of it.
        No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

        Comment

        • Nickdfresh
          SUPER MODERATOR

          • Oct 2004
          • 49264

          Originally posted by Nitro Express
          Rig a red dot on a AKM that isn’t shot out and it’s a deadly 300 meter rifle. It’s going to do the job.
          I've talked to a few soldiers and some of them were top tier special operations. Not one of them would carry an AK as a preferred weapon in combat except as a last resort. The M855 will take a second to cause a massive internal bleed due to the yawing. In Vietnam, they would find Vietnamese NLF and PAVN that ran after being shot by the M193 round similar to circumstances of soldiers shot with musket balls in the Civil War, they'd rifle their uniforms trying to pull the rounds out because they could feel the internal bleed. The M855 is also quite more effective at knocking people down than the 5.45mm..

          Comment

          • Nitro Express
            DIAMOND STATUS
            • Aug 2004
            • 32819

            Originally posted by Nickdfresh
            I've talked to a few soldiers and some of them were top tier special operations. Not one of them would carry an AK as a preferred weapon in combat except as a last resort. The M855 will take a second to cause a massive internal bleed due to the yawing. In Vietnam, they would find Vietnamese NLF and PAVN that ran after being shot by the M193 round similar to circumstances of soldiers shot with musket balls in the Civil War, they'd rifle their uniforms trying to pull the rounds out because they could feel the internal bleed. The M855 is also quite more effective at knocking people down than the 5.45mm..
            It boils down to what you are used to. In Israel some people liked the Galil and others liked the M4’s we gave them. All I know is a guy who was in actual combat said the 7,62x39 round took people out of the fight better than the M844 round. Apparently the short 123 grain bullet does some yawing as well and it has more mass.
            No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

            Comment

            • Nitro Express
              DIAMOND STATUS
              • Aug 2004
              • 32819

              Special ops guys are interesting to talk to. I’m on the search and rescue in my county so I talk to the SWAT guys in our Sheriff’s Department. Everyone is liking the 300 Blackout. It’s pretty much replaced 9mm sub guns for building clearing in the subsonic loading. You can use a standard carbine lower with a pistol upper and run a can with it and it works fine. You don’t have to switch out the buffer or recoil spring. You can throw a 300 blackout carbine upper and run supersonic loads and get 7,62x39 performance out of it. In hunting loads it’s an excellent deer and hog cartridge where shooting distances aren’t very far.
              No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

              Comment

              • twonabomber
                formerly F A T
                ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

                • Jan 2004
                • 11212

                I don't have one of these! Would be too big for the trails I run in the Gladiator

                Writing In All Proper Case Takes Extra Time, Is Confusing To Read, And Is Completely Pointless.

                Comment

                • Nickdfresh
                  SUPER MODERATOR

                  • Oct 2004
                  • 49264

                  Originally posted by twonabomber
                  I don't have one of these! Would be too big for the trails I run in the Gladiator

                  I know Caterpillar makes a line of off road construction stuff like this such and end-dumps. I've driven a Uke (articulated-end-dump actually) a long while back where we had a deep excavation up a trail to a partial concrete "racetrack" and trail where we dumped contaminated soil to load out on dumps to take to a burn facility to clean the soil. It was fucking fun! Like mountain biking but also scary as fuck at times. One guy that was a decent dude, but a bit of a lazy retard, flipped over a (Volvo) Uke while dumping soil off a dirt ramp. It wasn't tough to do except they wanted production so you had to do everything fast and rushed. Then the Army Corp safety guys would see us whipping around the track corners at 30mph and bitch that we were going too fast and being unsafe so we would literally get yelled at by the super/foreman to speed up and go faster in the morning, then "slow the fuck down you're going to kill yourself", literally an hour later. Good times...

                  Comment

                  • Nickdfresh
                    SUPER MODERATOR

                    • Oct 2004
                    • 49264

                    Originally posted by Nitro Express
                    It boils down to what you are used to. In Israel some people liked the Galil and others liked the M4’s we gave them. All I know is a guy who was in actual combat said the 7,62x39 round took people out of the fight better than the M844 round. Apparently the short 123 grain bullet does some yawing as well and it has more mass.
                    Maybe at very close quarter combat ranges. The 7.62x39 has reduced velocity that might transfer energy better at short ranges, sort of like a .45ACP round over a 9x19mm NATO/Lugar. But an 855 will blow through a ballistic vest much better and will have better pen through walls and stuff, so sort of a tradeoff...

                    Not 100% positive, but I think current US ballistic vests will if not stop the Soviet slug, will at least slow it down to turn fatal wounds into non-fatal ones...

                    Comment

                    • Nitro Express
                      DIAMOND STATUS
                      • Aug 2004
                      • 32819

                      Originally posted by Nickdfresh
                      Maybe at very close quarter combat ranges. The 7.62x39 has reduced velocity that might transfer energy better at short ranges, sort of like a .45ACP round over a 9x19mm NATO/Lugar. But an 855 will blow through a ballistic vest much better and will have better pen through walls and stuff, so sort of a tradeoff...

                      Not 100% positive, but I think current US ballistic vests will if not stop the Soviet slug, will at least slow it down to turn fatal wounds into non-fatal ones...
                      Yeah the 7,62x39 drops like a rock past 300 meters. Past that range you are lobbing lead onto your target. It was close ranges he was in fire fights. Urban combat. One guy he hosed was wearing what he described as casual business attire. He shot the guy in the chest with a M855 and it didn’t take the guy down and he had to put a few more into him to drop him. I don’t know if the Iraqi dudes were jacked on drugs or not. I’ve heard cops talk about trying to take down people on uppers and it’s a bitch.
                      No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

                      Comment

                      • Nitro Express
                        DIAMOND STATUS
                        • Aug 2004
                        • 32819

                        I used to drive a big snow cat grooming ski trails at night. That was fun.
                        No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

                        Comment

                        • Nickdfresh
                          SUPER MODERATOR

                          • Oct 2004
                          • 49264

                          Comment

                          • Nickdfresh
                            SUPER MODERATOR

                            • Oct 2004
                            • 49264

                            Battle for Bakhmut:

                            Comment

                            • Nickdfresh
                              SUPER MODERATOR

                              • Oct 2004
                              • 49264

                              Tanks to the Ukraine!

                              n reversal, US poised to approve Abrams tanks for Ukraine


                              FILE - A soldier walks past a line of M1 Abrams tanks, Nov. 29, 2016, at Fort Carson in Colorado Springs, Colo. In what would be a reversal, the Biden administration is poised to approve sending M1 Abrams tanks to Ukraine, U.S. officials said Tuesday, as international reluctance toward sending tanks to the battlefront against the Russians begins to erode. The decision could be announced as soon as Wednesday though it could take months or years for the tanks to be delivered. (Christian Murdock/The Gazette via AP, File) (ASSOCIATED PRESS)
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                              LOLITA C. BALDOR and MATTHEW LEE
                              Tue, January 24, 2023 at 1:04 PM EST
                              WASHINGTON (AP) — In what would be a reversal, the Biden administration is poised to approve sending M1 Abrams tanks to Ukraine, U.S. officials said Tuesday, as international reluctance to send tanks to the battlefront against the Russians begins to erode. The decision could be announced as soon as Wednesday, though it could take months or years for the tanks to be delivered.

                              U.S. officials said details are still being worked out. One official said the tanks would be bought under an upcoming Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative package, which provides longer-range funding for weapons and equipment to be purchased from commercial vendors.

                              The U.S. announcement is expected in coordination with an announcement by Germany that it will approve Poland’s request to transfer German-made Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine, according to one official. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because the decision has not yet been made public.

                              By agreeing to send the Abrams at an as-yet unspecified time under the assistance initiative, the administration is able to meet German Chancellor Olaf Scholz's demand for an American commitment without having to send the tanks immediately.

                              Much of the aid sent so far in the 11-month-old war has been through a separate program drawing on Pentagon stocks to get weapons more quickly to Ukraine. But even under that program, it would take months to get tanks to Ukraine and to get Ukrainian forces trained on them.

                              It's unknown how many tanks would be approved.

                              Until now, the U.S. has resisted providing its own M1 Abrams tanks to Ukraine, citing extensive and complex maintenance and logistical challenges with the high-tech vehicles. Washington believes it would be more productive to send German Leopards since many allies have them and Ukrainian troops would need less training than on the more difficult Abrams.

                              Just last week, Under Secretary of Defense for Policy Colin Kahl told reporters that the Abrams is a complicated, expensive, difficult to maintain and hard to train on piece of equipment. One thing Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin has been very focused on, he said, "is that we should not be providing the Ukrainians systems they can’t repair, they can’t sustain, and that they, over the long term, can’t afford, because it’s not helpful.”

                              A U.S. official familiar with White House thinking said the administration’s initial hesitancy was based on concerns about the requisite training and the sustainment of the tanks. The official added that the administration believes that such plans are now in place, but it could take time to implement them.

                              At the Pentagon, spokesman Brig. Gen. Pat Ryder said he had nothing to announce on any U.S. decision regarding Abrams tanks. But he said, “anytime that we’ve provided Ukraine with a type of system, we’ve provided the training and sustainment capabilities with that.”

                              The administration's reversal comes just days after a coalition of more than 50 senior defense officials from Europe and beyond met in Germany to discuss Ukraine’s war needs, and battle tanks were a prime topic.

                              Ukrainian leaders have been urgently requesting tanks, but Germany had resisted mounting pressure either to supply its own tanks or clear the way for other countries, such as Poland, to send the German-made tanks from their own stocks. Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said the deployment of Western tanks would trigger “unambiguously negative” consequences.

                              Defense leaders from the countries that have Leopard 2 tanks met with the Germans during the Friday conference at Ramstein Air Base in an effort to hammer out an agreement.

                              On Sunday, Berlin indicated it wouldn’t stand in the way if other countries wanted to send the Leopard 2 tanks to Kyiv. Germany needs to agree for the tanks to be given to Ukraine, which is not a member of NATO.

                              U.S. and German officials have given mixed signals about whether the U.S. and German decisions are linked, and whether Berlin was hesitant to send its tanks unless the U.S. sent Abrams.

                              Polish Defense Minister Mariusz Błaszczak said Tuesday that Poland has officially requested permission from Germany to transfer its Leopard 2 battle tanks to Ukraine.

                              German officials confirmed to the dpa news agency they had received the application and said it would be assessed “with due urgency.” German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock said Sunday that Berlin wouldn’t seek to stop Poland from providing the high-tech armor to Kyiv.

                              German officials declined to comment on the reports of a tank deal. The news weekly Der Spiegel reported Tuesday, without citing a source, that Germany will provide Ukraine with at least one company of Leopard 2 tanks from its own army’s stock. Scholz is due to deliver an address to parliament Wednesday and field questions from lawmakers, many of whom have been pressing the government to join allies in providing the tanks to Ukraine.

                              Lawmakers in Congress have also been pushing the U.S. to beef up its aid to Ukraine.

                              Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell said Tuesday “it’s time, past time” for the Biden administration and allies to send more military aid to Ukraine, and that the U.S. must provide more tanks and weapons to help Ukraine “win this war.”

                              “It’s time, past time, for the Biden administration and our allies to get serious about helping Ukraine finish the job and retake their country.”

                              The likely plans to send the Abrams were first reported by The Wall Street Journal.

                              Associated Press writers Tara Copp, Kevin Freking and Aamer Madhani contributed to this report.

                              Comment

                              • Nickdfresh
                                SUPER MODERATOR

                                • Oct 2004
                                • 49264

                                About 300-400 Western tanks like the Brit Challenger and the above will tip the scales in this fight...

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