Trudeau and Liberals invite actual SS Nazi to House of Commons

[Romeo Delight]

On that cause of death piece rabbit hole there are all kinds of articles on both sides. But let’s not forget that using respirators was essentially a death sentence we later learned. It was standard practice. Read this in that context:

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/hospital-payments-and-the-covid-19-death-count/

[Nickdfresh]

He didn't say that? Ok, can we at least put that argument to rest...here is just one video.

It's just not being intellectually honest with yourself, let alone me, if you argue that Biden's uber focus on reforming immigration and the months of talk about creating more open borders wouldn't have an impact. No sane person can argue this, but apparently you and others can. Again, the partisanship and willingness to blindly follow your tribe's narrative is so painful. Any reasonable person understands this messaging gets out and changes behaviours. Once organized crime gets ahold of this, its now a huge business opportunity for drug distribution,etc. To suggest otherwise is obtuse, and displays your allegiances more than any sound reasoning

https://youtu.be/rYwLYMPLYbo?feature=shared

He didn't "invite the world to come". He said if you are fleeing oppression, you should have a process, you know? like the Cubans did and Republican hypocrites never seem to mind them coming into Florida and they would never dare to send them back or shuffle them off to another state! Venezuelans are also fleeing a communist dictatorship. Immigration was down until very recently, and you support Ron Desantis that would never fucking send Cubans fleeing their country on a plane to a Blue state!

And you also support an asshole that has actually hired, and continues to employ, illegal immigrants in Trump!

[Romeo Delight]

On paper. Looking at those involved, most analysts now see this (rightfully) as a very much U.S. far-right influenced shit-storm, designed to stir things up with the upcoming Midterm elections (and it wasn't very successful...the red-wave never happened in any result people thought it was going to).

And, of course, it was a bunch of angry people hating the mandates.

But, you know what? Those attacking the U.S. on September 11 did have some very real reasons to be angry at America when it comes to foreign policy over the past 80 years...but that doesn't make the terrorist attacks even 1% right. Not even 0.01% right.

And, no, don't try the "You're Comparing the Truckers to 9/11 Terrorists" approach. I just used it as an example of someone making a protest for a maybe partly valid reason where the means do not justify the ends.



Please define this. You ALWAYS argue with vague rhetoric, big statements but few real facts or numbers. What do you mean by "the governments choices here are not looking good" (and YOU forgot that apostrophe, as usual, not me).



OK, let's do that.

CANADA
Coronavirus Cases: 4,728,375
Coronavirus Deaths: 53,793

UNITED STATES
Coronavirus Cases: 103,436,829
Coronavirus Deaths: 1,144,539

And I'm not going to get into a long debate about whether or not the vaccine or mandates were worth it with you, because I want to do something fun with the rest of my Sunday.

But I do know that the pandemic is mostly over. I do know that in places where there were greater mandates, there were less deaths. In places where more people per capita were vaccinated, there were less deaths.

Even funnier, the asshole politicians who were help funding these truckers from America were, almost unilaterally, happy to get the vaccine...some early as possible.

But this is also a sidebar. Let's pretend they had good reason...it did not make them heroes for crippling the economy and financially damaging countless Canadians (and Americans). And you can keep ignoring that...in fact, that's all you will do.

You do realize that in North America at least they changed how deaths are reported.

Instead of Covid being a contributing factor, ANY deaths that had it as a contributing factor made it a de facto CAUSE of death. The data is not correct.

[Romeo Delight]

Ah, you just edited your post and added this:




I don't even think you understand what you're arguing anymore.

Well, people have their own hot button items that gets their panties in a twist.

Nickd wanted to get into a debate about who is a real Nazi and who should be punished. I successfully avoided that rabbit hole...

You seem to have a number of issues, a hyper focus on polls and popular opinion being some.

All I was saying is that Trudeau has a very consistent set of actions that wasn't conistent with his stated approach/goals.

Not only that, it was the polar opposite characterized by corruption, gov't overreach, disrespect of his female members of cabinet, totalitarianism, etc.

It didn't have to be that way is all I am saying. He could and should do better. That trucker protest (you seem to want to focus on it) could and should have been handled much better. He could have taken 20 different paths but chose the most aggressive, AGAINST the advice of CSIS!!!

We and you need to ask more, is all I am saying.

You can "WIn" this online debate. I don't think we are much different in terms of what we expect. You just seemed to be more aligned and impacted by media influence, although accusing me of same. Best,

[Rikk]

Now, if you don't mind, I'm going to spend some of this Sunday with my family. Maybe you can do the same...but we can continue this later.

[Rikk]

Do you remember what the protests were about? Mandates.

On paper. Looking at those involved, most analysts now see this (rightfully) as a very much U.S. far-right influenced shit-storm, designed to stir things up with the upcoming Midterm elections (and it wasn't very successful...the red-wave never happened in any result people thought it was going to).

And, of course, it was a bunch of angry people hating the mandates.

But, you know what? Those attacking the U.S. on September 11 did have some very real reasons to be angry at America when it comes to foreign policy over the past 80 years...but that doesn't make the terrorist attacks even 1% right. Not even 0.01% right.

And, no, don't try the "You're Comparing the Truckers to 9/11 Terrorists" approach. I just used it as an example of someone making a protest for a maybe partly valid reason where the means do not justify the ends.

What is the cost of those and related effectiveness of same. We have the data now and the governments choices here are not looking good.

Please define this. You ALWAYS argue with vague rhetoric, big statements but few real facts or numbers. What do you mean by "the governments choices here are not looking good" (and YOU forgot that apostrophe, as usual, not me).

If you want to get into a math exercise we can certainly do that.

OK, let's do that.

CANADA
Coronavirus Cases: 4,728,375
Coronavirus Deaths: 53,793

UNITED STATES
Coronavirus Cases: 103,436,829
Coronavirus Deaths: 1,144,539

And I'm not going to get into a long debate about whether or not the vaccine or mandates were worth it with you, because I want to do something fun with the rest of my Sunday.

But I do know that the pandemic is mostly over. I do know that in places where there were greater mandates, there were less deaths. In places where more people per capita were vaccinated, there were less deaths.

Even funnier, the asshole politicians who were help funding these truckers from America were, almost unilaterally, happy to get the vaccine...some early as possible.

But this is also a sidebar. Let's pretend they had good reason...it did not make them heroes for crippling the economy and financially damaging countless Canadians (and Americans). And you can keep ignoring that...in fact, that's all you will do.

[Rikk]

Lol. I am not afraid of the truth. It was a big moment for Canada on the world stage. It was a big moment as peaceful demonstrations were happening at a time of debate around mandatory mandates etc.

My God!! Peaceful demonstration?... Sure, no actual violence. But TONS of damage to people all over both countries...even the world. It's like you keep playing this game with the statistics of the economic damage, saying "I HEAR NOTHING... LA LA LA!"

Canada on the world state? Do you know the most popular opinion of the truckers? People wanted them to fuck off!

Let's look at Canada alone: 69% of Canadians were against the truckers. Hell, 24% of Canadians were now less supportive of the mandates, but 44% of those polled said they now were "more supportive" of the vaccine mandates than before!! A lot of those who were even more supportive of the vaccine mandates said things like "these truckers have made me lose my job" and, another great one, "you don't have to help me lose my house to make me join your vaccine fight."

And, as you conveniently ignore, they weren't just against vaccine mandates concerning truckers, some of those protesting said they wouldn't leave until ALL vaccine mandates were abolished, with some demanding that Trudeau resign before they stop blocking our border.

This wasn't just a "peaceful protest" blocking free trade. It was blocking ALL TRADE. Only a complete fucking moron would think this kind of action does not harm good people who had no desire to be caught in the cross-hairs.

A peaceful protest is one that shows demonstration in a peaceful manner...get yourself on the news. Get a chance for your demands to be met. A terrorist action is one designed to harm people to get your point heard. This blocking of the borders hurt so many people... To deny that is pure pig ignorance.

Of course people noticed. But it actually brought anger more than anything. It actually swayed opinion TO the vaccine in some cases.

Having a conversation is one thing. A bunch of morons waving Confederate flags at the protests (this can be seen in multiple photos...it was even reported in the right-leaning National Post) and causing an economic meltdown, hurting millions to varying degrees, is not simple conversation. (I have heard stories that Nazi flags were waved as well, but as I could not prove it and have seen no pictures of this, I will not state that this is fact.)

As for the CSIS, a few points here:

. There is no rule stating that the CSIS has to be the "exclusive authority" to determine if there is a "public order emergency." This is considered the federal government’s responsibility.
. You're again being misleading here: The CSIS did not state "take no action against the truckers." They stated that Trudeau invoking the Emergency Act was not warranted. The CSIS did not give a thumbs up on the truckers, they did not state that the truckers should not be stopped, they did not state that the truckers were good for Canada. They simply disagreed with Trudeau's evoking the Emergency Act. You're pretending these are equivalent, but they actually are not remotely equivalent.
. The CSIS found no evidence of a foreign state acting as a single entity specifically intruding in the blocking of borders. They also found no evidence of foreign agents entering the borders to join the border protest. Evidence WAS found, however, that specific (right-wing) contributors were helping the protest financially...on both sides of the border.

AND I ASK AGAIN: WHY DO YOU REFUSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE REAL HARM DONE TO REAL PEOPLE (BILLIONS OF DOLLARS) BY THIS PROTEST?

[Romeo Delight]

Ah, you just edited your post and added this:



OK, I'll bite.

Uh...the blocking of borders, causing literally billions of dollars in economic damage, would be seen by most Democratic countries as some form of domestic terrorist attack. It was a criminal blocking of our borders. It is against the law...for MANY reasons.

And you look at bank accounts being frozen to stop donations to an attack on our free borders as some sort of example of tyranny?? SERIOUSLY?? People were losing their jobs. Businesses were closing. Medication, food, vital goods were not getting through the border. Billions in economic damage. Over a fucking vaccine.

Freezing bank accounts is one of the most common tactics lawmakers use to stop criminal actions.

You just conveniently and completely ignored my listing of some of the obvious damage done by those blocking the borders between our countries. And instead, you cry about frozen bank accounts.

Why don't you acknowledge the illegality of their actions and the economic damage and real people being hurt and businesses closing down because they couldn't take the economic drain?

WHERE IS YOUR OUTRAGE, ROMEO DELIGHT?

Since you keep ignoring this statistic, I'll post it again:

. Emerson crossing (6 days): $438 million in Canada/U.S. trade completely stopped by border-blocking.
. Coutts crossing (18 days): $864 million in Canada/U.S. trade completely stopped by border-blocking.
. Ambassador Bridge crossing, where I used to live (6 days): $2 billion $340 million in Canada/U.S. trade completely stopped by border-blocking.

You carefully pick things to be outraged by and then ignore anything that contradicts your point. You even read things so badly that you make posts (two and counting so far) that prove your debate opponent's point.

I don't even think you understand what you're arguing anymore.

Do you remember what the protests were about? Mandates.

What is the cost of those and related effectiveness of same. We have the data now and the governments choices here are not looking good. That is not to say that the mandates served a purpose for a time. There was a lot of uncertainty..

If you want to get into a math exercise we can certainly do that.

We will find divergent opinion there too.

I know you like polls...here is one where it is basically 50-50 in several countries on whether we should have mandates at all. At the very least, Trudeau should have listened, been conciliatory is all I ever said. Not dogmatic and Rallied literal troops against them, freeze their bank accounts, malign, call names, ostracize, etc. His actions align with my portrayal.

https://www.globalgovernmentforum.com/were-governments-right-to-introduce-covid-19-vaccine-mandates/

[Romeo Delight]

Lol. I am not afraid of the truth. It was a big moment for Canada on the world stage. It was a big moment as peaceful demonstrations were happening at a time of debate around mandatory mandates etc.

It would be silly to think that others wouldn’t notice. You make it seem like this invalidates me or validates you.

Ok, whatever you need to get you through the day.

CSIS recommended Trudeau take no action and there is no threat to national security. The Liberals ignored that report and decided unilaterally that they needed to quash the protest.

This is the point Rikk. We need to ask more of our leaders to listen and have conversations. Perhaps more polls will fix this world dilemma ��?

[Rikk]

Ah, you just edited your post and added this:

Even worse, the fact we know who donated should scare all of us. The fact that people who donated in Canada had their bank accounts frozen, were unabale to buy food, pay rent, pay utitlties, all because they dared take a stand against Government policies by sending a little donation...yikes

Where is your outrage Rikk?

OK, I'll bite.

Uh...the blocking of borders, causing literally billions of dollars in economic damage, would be seen by most Democratic countries as some form of domestic terrorist attack. It was a criminal blocking of our borders. It is against the law...for MANY reasons.

And you look at bank accounts being frozen to stop donations to an attack on our free borders as some sort of example of tyranny?? SERIOUSLY?? People were losing their jobs. Businesses were closing. Medication, food, vital goods were not getting through the border. Billions in economic damage. Over a fucking vaccine.

Freezing bank accounts is one of the most common tactics lawmakers use to stop criminal actions.

You just conveniently and completely ignored my listing of some of the obvious damage done by those blocking the borders between our countries. And instead, you cry about frozen bank accounts.

Why don't you acknowledge the illegality of their actions and the economic damage and real people being hurt and businesses closing down because they couldn't take the economic drain?

WHERE IS YOUR OUTRAGE, ROMEO DELIGHT?

Since you keep ignoring this statistic, I'll post it again:

. Emerson crossing (6 days): $438 million in Canada/U.S. trade completely stopped by border-blocking.
. Coutts crossing (18 days): $864 million in Canada/U.S. trade completely stopped by border-blocking.
. Ambassador Bridge crossing, where I used to live (6 days): $2 billion $340 million in Canada/U.S. trade completely stopped by border-blocking.

You carefully pick things to be outraged by and then ignore anything that contradicts your point. You even read things so badly that you make posts (two and counting so far) that prove your debate opponent's point.

I don't even think you understand what you're arguing anymore.

[Rikk]

Interesting your "Stats" miss this:

"Leaked data said to be from the GiveSendGo crowdfunding platform, posted last night to a now-defunct web page by anonymous hackers, lists records of more than 92,000 donations totaling more than $8 million. A review of the data shows that some $4.3 million came from Canada, while an additional $3.6 million originated in the United States"

So mostly Canadian.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/14/w...donations.html

THANK YOU!!! You either don't know how to read or you just like proving my points!!

I NEVER SAID that the funds were "mostly American." Uh uh. I was responding to your lie about this being "the most Canadian protest ever" with no U.S. influence. I posted statistics (and you just posted another, again, thank you) proving you lied (or were unaware) that this was not remotely "the most Canadian protest ever." In fact, it was close to half funded by Americans (verifiably Conservative American sources), looking to influence an economic shutdown in another country.

You just confirmed this. YOU DID. YOU ADDED TO MY ARGUMENT!!!

Thank you!!!!!!!!!

[Romeo Delight]

Then, yes...you clearly did not "go through all of that."

Because part of what I acknowledge in my post (you may not notice this, but my posts are far more "both sides" argument than yours) is the actual, verifiable bias of the CBC...but I also point to the very factors that differ in their bias compared to say news sources below the border like FoxNews, etc.

I acknowledge that CTVNews is actually more popular than CBC...and far less biased.

I also take some real time to point out lies you made concerning Ukraine/Canada.

And I put some real time in pointing out several lies in your comments concerning the "Border Protests" being "the most Canadian protest ever," as well as the real reasons and damage done by said protests.

You made something like four LONG posts in the last day or so. I read them all.

I took the time to read yours, reply to your post concerning Canada/Ukraine/CBC/border protests with specific facts/points.

If your defense is that you're just not going to read it, no problem. But then you're actually proving my entire overall point. You don't take in and digest facts. You just make up points that fit your political affiliation. That's more fringe than you believe you actually are. But it fits in very well with the MAGA way-of-thinking.

Interestingly, I don't support the Liberal Party in Canada.

And in the United States, I don't subscribe to one party. But I have voted against the Republicans since moving here (I've always been a U.S. citizen, born in Ohio) because it has ALWAYS been the lesser of two evils.

Read my admittedly-lengthy post. If you don't, then don't argue with me.

Interesting your "Stats" miss this:

"Leaked data said to be from the GiveSendGo crowdfunding platform, posted last night to a now-defunct web page by anonymous hackers, lists records of more than 92,000 donations totaling more than $8 million. A review of the data shows that some $4.3 million came from Canada, while an additional $3.6 million originated in the United States"

So mostly Canadian.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/14/world/canada/canada-trucker-protests-donations.html

Even worse, the fact we know who donated should scare all of us. The fact that people who donated in Canada had their bank accounts frozen, were unabale to buy food, pay rent, pay utitlties, all because they dared take a stand against Government policies by sending a little donation...yikes

Where is your outrage Rikk?

[Rikk]

You seem to like polls. Not sure what polls prove?

WHo participates in polls? lol. Bedridden unemployed people?

Seriously, do you ALWAYS argue this badly?

YOU asked a question:

Does anyone really think Trump supports Nazis?

So, I answered your question with a poll on whether or not people think Trump is racist. Get it?

LMFAO...I didn't say polls answer all questions.

It's like every reply you post, you make up entire arguments the person with whom you're debating did not make.

Now quit replying to these short little posts. Go read the bigger post. And then you can come back to me with more made-up facts, ignoring some very real facts that were posted to counter lies you made.

Have a nice day.

[Rikk]

And, by the way, I am not "obsessed with Trump."

He's a lousy ex-T.V. star, bad businessman, white-collar criminal (before his Presidency), major Insurrectionist, complete non-Intellectual, major negative influence on race/culture in our country...

...and, frankly, unlike many other political figures throughout history that I've detested: TRUMP NEVER HAS ANYTHING INTERESTING TO SAY.

He's the most openly-self-centered political figures in a theoretically-Democratic nation most of us have ever seen.

He doesn't even really stand for anything.

I'm not obsessed with him. I just kinda wish he would go away.

I miss a time when I simply disagreed with people's politics.

I miss a time when it was not even a widespread argument whether or not it's ok to be a bigot.

I miss a time when being educated was considered by almost all Americans to be a virtue...

[Romeo Delight]

LMFAO!!!!

Holy shit...you really posted that link to prove your point?

Did you read the whole article?

The article outright confirmed that he refused to denounce white supremacists in the debate, gave a shout out to the Proud Boys...and reported that it was only "partly false" that he gave a shout-out to Nazis in Charlottesville. It 100% confirmed what has been said all along: that he said there were "fine people" in the violent group carrying Tiki torches, committing violence, shouting "Jews will not replace us." It corrected some wrongly-worded tweets/statements of Trump's exact wording that day. It did NOT in any way state that Trump is NOT a Nazi and did not in any way state that Trump did NOT make encouraging comments about the violent racists in Charlottesville. In fact, it CONFIRMED that part.

And did you just ask the following?



52% of Americans think Trump is a racist. 37% don't think he is.

What's even funnier is that while MAGAs continue to attack the "WOKE left" for playing the "victim card" or the "race card," but a July poll showed that just 19% of Trump voters describe racism against Black Americans as a "big problem," while twice as many (37%) say racism against white Americans is a big problem.

Another interesting statistic: 56% of Americans disapproved of or were offended by Trump's response to Charlottesville.

Oh, and here's another USA Link for you. Paul Ryan even denounced Trump for his words that day. Hell, almost all intellectuals and plenty of politicians (even Republicans) were happy to point out the disgusting nature of Trump trying to equate protesters organized by multiple White Supremacists-factions and those gathering to protest the gathered racists:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ly/3586024002/

I quoted USA Today purposefully as it is not a right publication.

I am no Trump supporter, and I dont agree with alot of what he says. You seem to like polls. Not sure what polls prove?

WHo participates in polls? lol. Bedridden unemployed people?

I know it's popular sentiment to portray Trump in this way. It is certainly a fundamental North star for his oppostion.

So you didn't try to obscure the entirety of what he said that day? He condemned Neo Nazis and white nationalists, right?

I am not here to defend Trump, or what he said, but to say he supports white nationalism isn't proven. A poll doesn't prove anything. He said he doesn't support them...condemns them