Trudeau and Liberals invite actual SS Nazi to House of Commons

[Rikk]

Now, if you don't mind, I'm going to spend some of this Sunday with my family. Maybe you can do the same...but we can continue this later.

[Romeo Delight]

Ah, you just edited your post and added this:




I don't even think you understand what you're arguing anymore.

Well, people have their own hot button items that gets their panties in a twist.

Nickd wanted to get into a debate about who is a real Nazi and who should be punished. I successfully avoided that rabbit hole...

You seem to have a number of issues, a hyper focus on polls and popular opinion being some.

All I was saying is that Trudeau has a very consistent set of actions that wasn't conistent with his stated approach/goals.

Not only that, it was the polar opposite characterized by corruption, gov't overreach, disrespect of his female members of cabinet, totalitarianism, etc.

It didn't have to be that way is all I am saying. He could and should do better. That trucker protest (you seem to want to focus on it) could and should have been handled much better. He could have taken 20 different paths but chose the most aggressive, AGAINST the advice of CSIS!!!

We and you need to ask more, is all I am saying.

You can "WIn" this online debate. I don't think we are much different in terms of what we expect. You just seemed to be more aligned and impacted by media influence, although accusing me of same. Best,

[Romeo Delight]

On paper. Looking at those involved, most analysts now see this (rightfully) as a very much U.S. far-right influenced shit-storm, designed to stir things up with the upcoming Midterm elections (and it wasn't very successful...the red-wave never happened in any result people thought it was going to).

And, of course, it was a bunch of angry people hating the mandates.

But, you know what? Those attacking the U.S. on September 11 did have some very real reasons to be angry at America when it comes to foreign policy over the past 80 years...but that doesn't make the terrorist attacks even 1% right. Not even 0.01% right.

And, no, don't try the "You're Comparing the Truckers to 9/11 Terrorists" approach. I just used it as an example of someone making a protest for a maybe partly valid reason where the means do not justify the ends.



Please define this. You ALWAYS argue with vague rhetoric, big statements but few real facts or numbers. What do you mean by "the governments choices here are not looking good" (and YOU forgot that apostrophe, as usual, not me).



OK, let's do that.

CANADA
Coronavirus Cases: 4,728,375
Coronavirus Deaths: 53,793

UNITED STATES
Coronavirus Cases: 103,436,829
Coronavirus Deaths: 1,144,539

And I'm not going to get into a long debate about whether or not the vaccine or mandates were worth it with you, because I want to do something fun with the rest of my Sunday.

But I do know that the pandemic is mostly over. I do know that in places where there were greater mandates, there were less deaths. In places where more people per capita were vaccinated, there were less deaths.

Even funnier, the asshole politicians who were help funding these truckers from America were, almost unilaterally, happy to get the vaccine...some early as possible.

But this is also a sidebar. Let's pretend they had good reason...it did not make them heroes for crippling the economy and financially damaging countless Canadians (and Americans). And you can keep ignoring that...in fact, that's all you will do.

You do realize that in North America at least they changed how deaths are reported.

Instead of Covid being a contributing factor, ANY deaths that had it as a contributing factor made it a de facto CAUSE of death. The data is not correct.

[Nickdfresh]

He didn't say that? Ok, can we at least put that argument to rest...here is just one video.

It's just not being intellectually honest with yourself, let alone me, if you argue that Biden's uber focus on reforming immigration and the months of talk about creating more open borders wouldn't have an impact. No sane person can argue this, but apparently you and others can. Again, the partisanship and willingness to blindly follow your tribe's narrative is so painful. Any reasonable person understands this messaging gets out and changes behaviours. Once organized crime gets ahold of this, its now a huge business opportunity for drug distribution,etc. To suggest otherwise is obtuse, and displays your allegiances more than any sound reasoning

https://youtu.be/rYwLYMPLYbo?feature=shared

He didn't "invite the world to come". He said if you are fleeing oppression, you should have a process, you know? like the Cubans did and Republican hypocrites never seem to mind them coming into Florida and they would never dare to send them back or shuffle them off to another state! Venezuelans are also fleeing a communist dictatorship. Immigration was down until very recently, and you support Ron Desantis that would never fucking send Cubans fleeing their country on a plane to a Blue state!

And you also support an asshole that has actually hired, and continues to employ, illegal immigrants in Trump!

[Romeo Delight]

On that cause of death piece rabbit hole there are all kinds of articles on both sides. But let’s not forget that using respirators was essentially a death sentence we later learned. It was standard practice. Read this in that context:

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/hospital-payments-and-the-covid-19-death-count/

[Romeo Delight]

He didn't "invite the world to come". He said if you are fleeing oppression, you should have a process, you know? like the Cubans did and Republican hypocrites never seem to mind them coming into Florida and they would never dare to send them back or shuffle them off to another state! Venezuelans are also fleeing a communist dictatorship. Immigration was down until very recently, and you support Ron Desantis that would never fucking send Cubans fleeing their country on a plane to a Blue state!

And you also support an asshole that has actually hired, and continues to employ, illegal immigrants in Trump!

Firstly, I don’t support anyone. You are a mess on both sides lol!

Secondly, can you honestly tell me that months and months of this type of positioning and you expect zero increase in the Southern border?


Sure, we can say, well he said something different and so you still have no standing here. Ummm. Ok. I don’t know what to say. It’s super clear, taking off you Dem hat for a second, that 4 months of this type of positioning re the border followed by an election win, followed by a literal dismantling of the previous regime’s policies could ONLY result in a mass sprint to the border. I don’t know if there is any point in any further discussion. You are drowning in the kool-aid.

[Nickdfresh]

There really aren't many in Canada who believe the CBC is a reliable news organization. Such a shame as this wasn't always the case.

No, YOU DON'T. Not most Canadians do and I doubt you speak for much more than a minority of them.

They are funded by the Federal government and almost never critique the Federal Liberal party. Question period is a series of softballs thrown the Prime Minitser's way. It's sad. Thankfully indpenedant media is leading the way.

Again, this argument about who is a NAzi, who should be prosecuted for War crimes, etc, is an entirely different discussion.

No, it isn't. You criticized my source so I provided the link to the article where it characterizes this guys background.

You don't trust the CBC now? Okay please tell us how they are wrong on this?

The reason why this story is important in a Canadian specific context is that Trudeau and his enture Liberal party has called those who disagree with him Nazis. Portrayed any dissent as racist, mysoginistic, and hate-filled. Said that the Trucker protest should not be allowed because it dissents with givernment policies (yes he actually said this) What is a protest for if not to voice concern over government policy??? Good lord. One flag appeared breifly at one trucker protest (likely a plant) and now the entire protest was Maga supported, supporting Nazis, etc. Ridiculous. It was the most Canadian protest ever...polite, family filled, super peaceful. Rights were ripped away, bank accounts frozen, and for some just for donating online!!! One of the banks later apologized, but its a stain on our history.

The vast majority of Canadians were really fucking annoyed with their cities being shut down by truckers: https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/15/polit...tes/index.html

So maybe Trudeau speaks for the majority, eh?

So when a Cdn government blindy follows a corrupt political regime in Ukraine with far right leanings, no elections, no oversights, blindly, without end apparently, and then invites an SS volunteer to the House, yes, we have questions...is that ok? Again, questions are a hallmark of a free and democratic society.

There is also the question of how many Nazis Canada allowed to come into the country so many years ago. Deputy PM Freeland's own family may well have a sordid history there. Her grandfather was an editor of a Nazi newspaper

Pretty ignorant to just regurgitate Russian propaganda about the "far right" in Ukraine FFS! The main Ukrainian parties are moderate right to left spectrum and the far Right Sector has largely been marginalized both politically and in the Armed Forces.

Again, completely ignorant. Zelensky WAS democratically elected and is hugely popular, in contrast he was unpopular prior to the Russian Invasion and genocide, but his handling as a wartime leader has galvanized the Ukraine resistance to the fascist Ruscist cunts! Yes there is corruption there, but he has made headway cracking down and certainly the corruption regarding Ukrainian defense is nowhere near the level of the Russian MOD.

There may be a question regarding how many Canadians of Ukrainian decent are hard right, but that was never any sort of real political question until recently and the Progressive Conservatives surely never gave a fuck. If you don't like Trudeau's policies then vote against them, but I am pretty sure Canada as part of NATO are treaty bound to ensure Ukrainian statehood and security as the result of them giving up all their nukes in the 1990's...

And itis Russian not the Ukraine that threatens Canadian sovereignty in the Arctic Circle...

[Romeo Delight]

No, YOU DON'T. Not most Canadians do and I doubt you speak for much more than a minority of them.




You don't trust the CBC now? Okay please tell us how they are wrong on this?



The vast majority of Canadians were really fucking annoyed with their cities being shut down by truckers: https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/15/polit...tes/index.html

So maybe Trudeau speaks for the majority, eh?

Toronto, ON, February 11, 2022 – The trucker convoy that has descended upon Ottawa and has morphed into a wider protest has the sympathy of many Canadians, even if they don’t agree with everything that has been said or done by the protestors, according to a new Ipsos poll conducted on behalf of Global News.

Nearly half (46%) of Canadians say they “may not agree with everything the people who have taken part in the truck protests in Ottawa have said, but their frustration is legitimate and worthy of our sympathy.” The proportion of 18-34-year-olds who adopt this point of view is 61%, while those aged 35-54 (44%) and 55+ (37%) are much less likely to agree. Regionally, those in Alberta (58%) and Saskatchewan and Manitoba (58%) are most likely to align with this argument, while a sizeable minority in Quebec (47%), Ontario (44%), Atlantic Canada (43%), and British Columbia (36%) agree. Politically, most Conservative voters (59%) are on this side of the argument, while a minority of Bloc (44%), NDP (43%) and Liberal (30%) voters are also aligned.

https://www.ipsos.com/en-ca/news-polls/nearly-half-say-they-may-not-agree-with-trucker-convoy

I find it interesting that despite a considerable media bias on the side of Trudeau and the Liberals here, you are incorrect here Nickd, there is no "vast majority" opposing the truckers.

remember here Nickd, that Trudeau ran on a platform of inclusiveness for all Canadians, saying he would bring new standards of listening to all Canadians. This is a far cry from that, and the polar opposite action.

The most interesting part of that poll (lol) is that the older you are (and by implication used to trusting legacy media and the established narrative) the more you were aligned to Trudeau, etc.

The majority of 18-34 year olds - 61% - actually supported the truckers. Super interesting...and hopeful for the future.

Regional differences too. So you are wrong on this point, and on the Biden Border , if we are keeping track.

[Romeo Delight]

No, YOU DON'T. Not most Canadians do and I doubt you speak for much more than a minority of them.

Right now Conservatives lead the polls considerably here in Canada.

Read this:

https://www.pollara.com/how-much-do-canadians-trust-different-media-outlets/

As you can see, there is a distrust (and with good reason) of most legacy media from those other than Liberals.

But since we are so hyper focussed on polls and stats here in this thread, if the majority of Canadians support the Conservatives today, and only 22% of them support the CBC as trustworthy, then it appears that I do indeed speak for most Canadians.

At a minimum, it’s not a minority.

Squarish_charts_truthinmedia-1024x922.jpg

[Romeo Delight]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine-zelenskyy-anticorruption-efforts-1.6972301

lol..."Only Russia was rated more corrupt" Remember, ZERO oversight in the funds we are giving them...

Volodymyr Zelenskyy's other challenge? Fighting persistent Ukraine corruption


Stephen Grey, Dan Peleschuk · Thomson Reuters · Posted: Sep 20, 2023 6:05 AM PDT | Last Updated: September 20

Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has been lauded as a wartime leader since Russia began its full-scale invasion in February 2022. But some continue to question his commitment to making good on his pledge to fight graft.

Ukraine consistently ranks in the bottom half of Transparency International's annual Corruption Perceptions Index. Only Russia was rated more corrupt in Europe in the 2022 rankings from the non-government organization.

Billions of dollars of aid earmarked for Zelenskyy's government, as well as ambitions to join the European Union, ride on Ukraine proving that it is serious about fighting corruption and embracing good governance.

Yaroslav Zheleznyak, an opposition lawmaker, said Western donors should take note. So far, more than 41 countries, including Canada have committed a total of more than $140 billion US in civil and military aid to Ukraine, according to the Ukraine Support Tracker of the Kiel Institute for the World Economy.

Zheleznyak told Reuters that unless corruption is addressed, Western donors risk losing substantial sums.

"Now, they are stealing our money," Zheleznyak said of officials who tolerated graft. "In the future, they could steal your money."

Bribery allegations follow Ukraine minister
A survey by two Kyiv pollsters released on Sept. 11 found that 78 per cent of Ukrainians hold Zelenskyy accountable for government corruption. A related poll found that 55 per cent believe Western military aid should be conditional on fighting corruption.

Zelenskyy fired more than a dozen senior officials in January amid public allegations of graft and impropriety, and on Aug. 11, he fired all the regional heads of military recruitment centres, after an audit turned up alleged abuses by officials, including illegal enrichment.

On Sept. 12, after a public outcry, Zelenskyy vetoed legislation that would have allowed officials to keep their mandatory asset disclosures sealed from public view for a year.

This month, Zelenskyy also replaced his defence minister, Oleksii Reznikov. The president cited the need for "new approaches," but the move came soon after a series of allegations levelled by Ukrainian media that the defence ministry was procuring goods at inflated values. Reznikov told a press conference in Kyiv a week before his ouster that the reports are inaccurate.

Oleh Tatarov, the president's adviser on law enforcement and security agencies since 2020, remains on the job.

Oleh Maiboroda, once a chief executive of one of Ukraine's biggest construction firms, said that for years, he kept rolls of dollar bills in a safe behind his desk to hand over to Tatarov. The money, Maiboroda told Reuters, was intended to bribe public officials to approve building projects.

"Tatarov used to solve all issues with law enforcement," Maiboroda said in an interview in Vienna, where he has settled to escape prosecution in Ukraine for his own alleged role in corruption schemes involving the construction firm Ukrbud Development LLC.

Maiboroda said bribes flowed through Tatarov from 2014 to 2019, while the latter was a legal adviser to a company that was part of the state-owned Ukrbud. Before that, Tatarov was an official in the government of Viktor Yanukovych, the pro-Russian president toppled by a popular uprising in 2014.

Calls to remove Tatarov
Maiboroda said Tatarov was a slick operator, working away from the office in cafés where he met his contacts and used encrypted apps for communications.

"He knew about law enforcement and warned us to be careful about saying almost anything on the phone," Maiboroda told Reuters.

He said Tatarov either collected cash payments himself or sent a driver to do so.

"Of course he was paying" to smooth projects with authorities, including by securing building permits, Maiboroda said. "He was giving them money so these arrangements were done," he added.

Maiboroda provided no proof of his accusations, but they echo an allegation against Tatarov levelled by Ukraine's anti-corruption agencies that he organized a bribe.

Tatarov has denied wrongdoing and has been convicted of no crime. He has said his accusers are trying to settle political scores.

Zelenskyy has previously said corruption has no place in his administration.

Daria Kaleniuk, executive director of Ukraine's Anti-Corruption Action Centre (AntAC), an NGO, believes that in a healthy democracy, any official accused of corruption should be suspended until cleared.

"Unless Zelenskyy gets rid of Tatarov, he won't be seen as serious in purging the country of corruption," she told Reuters.

Investigation stalled, then closed
The construction sector is typical of the blurred lines between public and private sectors in post-Soviet Ukraine.

Maxym Mykytas, the former chair of Ukrbud, is currently in prison, charged with an alleged bribery scheme involving a subway contract.

Two senior law enforcement officials told Reuters that Mykytas confessed to the bribe in an October 2020 video recording, in which he said Tatarov arranged the payment. Tatarov has not commented on the matter.

"Tatarov and I did everything together, but if Tatarov sits in the President's Office, why should I be in prison?" Mykytas told a Ukrainian news website in December 2020.

In early 2021, Mykytas withdrew his confession. He told Reuters he accused Tatarov in the mistaken belief that Tatarov and others were trying to steal his business.

Meanwhile, an investigation into the Tatarov allegations from the state security service stalled. A court in Kyiv then refused to give investigators more time and, in April 2022, state prosecutors closed the case on procedural grounds.

Also under suspicion is Andriy Yermak, an associate from Zelenskyy's prior career in the entertainment world.

In March 2020, a month after Yermak became the president's chief of staff, video tapes surfaced in which Yermak's brother, Denys, now a soldier, is heard discussing appointments to government jobs and suggesting he could open doors. Denys confirmed the recording was of him, but said the tapes had been edited in a politically motivated bid to discredit his brother.

Andriy Yermak also dismissed the recordings as a political hit job.

Citizens weary of corruption
Neither Zelenskyy nor Tatarov responded to detailed questions to Reuters.

The view that corruption persists in wartime is widespread among several dozen residents interviewed by Reuters in a visit to several towns and villages north of Kyiv. There is hope that, after the sacrifice of war, the country has reached a turning point.

Pointing to an alleyway in Irpin where volunteers bring food to residents, Halyna, a 44-year-old local woman, said that nowadays when she deals with local officials, "there's no hint of bribes anymore."

Kaleniuk, the anti-corruption campaigner, believes the war has created irreversible pressure for reform.

"Everything has changed" since Russia's invasion, she said. "The demand for a change in society is huge."

Ukraine's anti-corruption authorities say they have doubled down on their work and say they have made more progress than at any time since their establishment in 2015. In the first half of this year, they launched nearly 300 cases and sent 58 indictments to court, according to the National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine (NABU).

Current NABU director Semen Kryvonos told Reuters his agency is prioritizing wartime crimes in key sectors like defence and reconstruction.

In a report in June, the International Monetary Fund said donors and foreign investors need to see reforms to improve governance, transparency and tackle corruption "without delay."

In an assessment of Ukraine's chances of EU membership, published in June 2022, the European Commission described corruption as "a serious challenge that requires continued attention."

CBC's Journalistic Standards and Practices|About CBC News

[Romeo Delight]

Again, completely ignorant. Zelensky WAS democratically elected and is hugely popular, in contrast he was unpopular prior to the Russian Invasion and genocide, but his handling as a wartime leader has galvanized the Ukraine resistance to the fascist Ruscist cunts! Yes there is corruption there, but he has made headway cracking down and certainly the corruption regarding Ukrainian defense is nowhere near the level of the Russian MOD.

I know at least one person in this thread loves a good poll, so here we go...

"A survey by two Kyiv pollsters released on Sept. 11 found that 78 per cent of Ukrainians hold Zelenskyy accountable for government corruption. A related poll found that 55 per cent believe Western military aid should be conditional on fighting corruption."

There you have it!!! Ukranians agreeing with my take!!!!!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine-zelenskyy-anticorruption-efforts-1.6972301

[Romeo Delight]

Firstly, I don’t support anyone. You are a mess on both sides lol!

Secondly, can you honestly tell me that months and months of this type of positioning and you expect zero increase in the Southern border?


Sure, we can say, well he said something different and so you still have no standing here. Ummm. Ok. I don’t know what to say. It’s super clear, taking off you Dem hat for a second, that 4 months of this type of positioning re the border followed by an election win, followed by a literal dismantling of the previous regime’s policies could ONLY result in a mass sprint to the border. I don’t know if there is any point in any further discussion. You are drowning in the kool-aid.

Quoting myself here, lol...

But I just had a thought, tens of thousands of would be migrants and refugees, hearing through the grapevine that things are changing at the US border after months and months of Campaigning promises - its open now! - dozens of cartels and other nefarious orgs making tons of cash on the new policies, getting paid to transport them, actively organizing transport and payment for same.

I am sure all of them stopped to consider..."Wait, shouldn't we check with what exactly Biden said (in another language not native to them) so we make sure we aren't breaking any rules/laws".

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Romeo Delight]

This is a great article just posted :

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/stephen-moore-the-malignant-narcissism-of-justin-trudeau/ar-AA1hwgO1?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=5b0dffa945fb40ed85f036fd6453c44a&ei=33

Frankly its the consensus opinion of Trudeau now. Last election, he only received 33% of the popular vote.

Thankfully, better times are in store for us by the next election.

Such an appropriate and accurate title: The malignant narcissism of Justin Trudeau

[Nickdfresh]

Quoting myself here, lol...

But I just had a thought, tens of thousands of would be migrants and refugees, hearing through the grapevine that things are changing at the US border after months and months of Campaigning promises - its open now! - dozens of cartels and other nefarious orgs making tons of cash on the new policies, getting paid to transport them, actively organizing transport and payment for same.

I am sure all of them stopped to consider..."Wait, shouldn't we check with what exactly Biden said (in another language not native to them) so we make sure we aren't breaking any rules/laws".

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

He DIDN"T fucking say what YOU said, he didn't say "the whole world" BUHUAAAA the BORDER IS NOT open, you delusional idiot! Then why would US CBP be apprehending them?

About 1,500 asylum seekers are allowed to apply for entry/asylum at a time but still are often denied. And late summer has caused an influx, but in June border crossings were at an all-time low...

There was a lot of attempted immigration under Trump as well in fact the only difference in numbers might be the pandemic. Immigrants don't give a fuck about what US presidents say, they only care about opportunities with the improving economy and getting away from violence.

The number of immigrants was actually pretty low for much of Biden's admin, it may have spiked recently but it ebbs and flows but 'it's the economy stupid'...

[Nickdfresh]

Toronto, ON, February 11, 2022 – The trucker convoy that has descended upon Ottawa and has morphed into a wider protest has the sympathy of many Canadians, even if they don’t agree with everything that has been said or done by the protestors, according to a new Ipsos poll conducted on behalf of Global News.

Nearly half (46%) of Canadians say they “may not agree with everything the people who have taken part in the truck protests in Ottawa have said, but their frustration is legitimate and worthy of our sympathy.” The proportion of 18-34-year-olds who adopt this point of view is 61%, while those aged 35-54 (44%) and 55+ (37%) are much less likely to agree. Regionally, those in Alberta (58%) and Saskatchewan and Manitoba (58%) are most likely to align with this argument, while a sizeable minority in Quebec (47%), Ontario (44%), Atlantic Canada (43%), and British Columbia (36%) agree. Politically, most Conservative voters (59%) are on this side of the argument, while a minority of Bloc (44%), NDP (43%) and Liberal (30%) voters are also aligned.

https://www.ipsos.com/en-ca/news-polls/nearly-half-say-they-may-not-agree-with-trucker-convoy

I find it interesting that despite a considerable media bias on the side of Trudeau and the Liberals here, you are incorrect here Nickd, there is no "vast majority" opposing the truckers.

remember here Nickd, that Trudeau ran on a platform of inclusiveness for all Canadians, saying he would bring new standards of listening to all Canadians. This is a far cry from that, and the polar opposite action.

The most interesting part of that poll (lol) is that the older you are (and by implication used to trusting legacy media and the established narrative) the more you were aligned to Trudeau, etc.

The majority of 18-34 year olds - 61% - actually supported the truckers. Super interesting...and hopeful for the future.

Regional differences too. So you are wrong on this point, and on the Biden Border , if we are keeping track.

So he's cherry picking a single poll but basically acknowledges that most Canadians were not sympathetic to the truckers blockading their cities. And I'm gonna guess there are other polls showing less sympathy...

It also seems the Convoyers are getting more nutty and are really losing support with calls to "arrest Trudeau" with some saying they're just opportunist grifters. Um okay:

Some prominent figures of 2022 convoy protests don't support latest convoy plan: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...tion-1.6979044