Draft-dodger monument ignites rage among vets

[lucky wilbury]

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=40636

Draft-dodger monument ignites rage among vets
Americans beg Bush to oppose tribute to 'cowards' who fled

Posted: September 26, 2004
8:45 p.m. Eastern



© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com

Plans to build a memorial to draft-dodgers from the Vietnam War is sparking outrage from American veterans, and President Bush is being urged to oppose the project.

A private Canadian group is sponsoring the monument, which is slated for display in Nelson, British Columbia, in 2006.

"This will mark the courageous legacy of Vietnam War resisters and the Canadians who helped them resettle in this country during that tumultuous era," said Isaac Romano, director of Our Way Home.

Now, the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the U.S. is hoping President Bush will get involved and express displeasure to Canadian officials.

"We urge the President and Congress to do whatever is necessary to communicate to the Canadian government that this exercise of free expression is an absolute slap in the face to every man and woman who ever served in uniform ... both in our military and theirs," said John Furgess, the national commander of the VFW.

He says the VFW fully supports freedom of expression and the arts, "But to honor draft-dodgers, deserters, people who brought grief to the families they left behind and anguish to those American men who took their place, is an abomination. You can say what you want about the war – we all did and some still do – but do not dishonor the warrior by memorializing cowards."


Dennis Klein, a sculptor and teacher at Kootenay School of the Arts, and artist Naomi Lewis have reportedly been selected to design and construct the monument, depicting Canadians embracing the hands of American war opponents.

Ordinary citizens are also blasting the project, posting comments on the city of Nelson's community bulletin board.


"I will make sure I don't spend another cent in Canada. Why don't you chai-sipping libs do something constructive? Pathetic." (John Cislo, Grosse Pointe Farms, Mich.)

"This disrespects all of those who made the ultimate sacrifice while serving in the United States Armed Forces. It dishonors the service of all American veterans and will bring shame upon your community. This reopens old wounds that will probably never heal. I have traveled to British Columbia. I have a daughter who lives in Edmonton, Alberta. Be assured that if your community builds this disgraceful monument, I will never again travel to B.C., your city, and most likely your country." (William P. Schettino, Jr., Austin, Texas)

Some remain supportive of the idea.

"My view of the whole event/monument was not so much to honor the war resisters, rather to honor the Canadians for lending a helping hand during a time of an illegal, immoral and undeclared war. The resisters do not need honoring any more then the vets need honoring. I thought the Canadian [government] did the right thing in dealing with those 125,000 leaving the U.S. at that time. This opportunity for Canada to do the right thing could well be just a few years away again." (Michael Donner, Canada)

Organizers from Our Way Home say despite the hot rhetoric, they're not backing away from their plans, which also include a concert and a host of speeches by members of the anti-war movement.

It's been estimated some 125,000 Americans fled to Canada during the Vietnam War to avoid the U.S. draft. About half returned to the U.S. when President Jimmy Carter granted them amnesty in 1977.

[FORD]

Junior can't say shit about this without being a complete hypocrite. As someone who begged his daddy to get him out of the draft, and then even deserted from his relatively cushy guard duty, he's in no position to condemn anyone else's choices.

[ELVIS]

Deserted ??

[FORD]

Originally posted by ELVIS
Deserted ??

Yes, deserted.....

http://usmilitary.about.com/library/...o/mcm/bl85.htm

[Big Train]

What is the design of it? Men running in the opposite direction?

It is a HUGE slap in the face to those who served (GW and Kerry among them, service is service).

And yet another fine example of a certain element of Canadian society with their moral superiority trip.

[FORD]

Originally posted by Big Train
(GW and Kerry among them, service is service).

It is if you bother to show up. Dan Quayle served his committment in the National Guard during the Vietnam war. George Bush Jr did not.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by FORD
Yes, deserted.....

http://usmilitary.about.com/library/...o/mcm/bl85.htm

You know NOTHING of this subject....SHUT UP!

[Sgt Schultz]

Bush deserted = Dead horse

Non issue, drop it.

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by FORD
It is if you bother to show up. Dan Quayle served his committment in the National Guard during the Vietnam war. George Bush Jr did not.

Dan Quayle also got an essential and highly dangerous posting to the National Guard. He also had a rich powerful Daddy.

What an amazing coincidence...

"I do -- I do -- I do -- I do -- what any normal person would do at that age. You call home. You call home to mother and father and say, ``I'd like to get into the National Guard.''
-- Senator Dan Quayle, 8/19/88 (reported in Esquire, 8/92)

"Obviously, if you join the National Guard, you have less of a chance of going to Vietnam. I mean it goes without saying. "
-- Senator Dan Quayle discussing his draft record on NBC's `Meet the Press', 9/20/92. (reported in the Houston Chronicle 9/21/92)

[DrMaddVibe]

You don't get an Honorable Discharge if you're a deserter.

Pull your head out of your puss...FORD!

[JCOOK]

They will paint it yellow of course

[Wayne L.]

Canada is out of its mind if it thinks about honoring Vietnam War era draft dodgers with a monument besides the country is a waste of time anyway except for legendary artists like Rush, Gordon Lightfoot & Anne Murray just to name a few.

[Satan]

Originally posted by Wayne L.
Canada is out of its mind if it thinks about honoring Vietnam War era draft dodgers with a monument besides the country is a waste of time anyway except for legendary artists like Rush, Gordon Lightfoot & Anne Murray just to name a few.

Gordon Lightfoot will soon be on a terra-ist list right along with Cat Stevens. It's only obvious to the trained patriotic ear that "Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" is a call for terra-ists to blow up ships in the Northern harbors, or that "Carefree Highway" is a euphemism for the road that leads to the Muslim Paradise where the martyr is greeted by 72 virgins.

[Big Train]

To quote a lighfoot song:

OH LORD, I THINK IT'S A SIN
WHEN FORD THINKS HE MADE A POINT,
BUT HE DIDN'T AGAIN....

[FORD]

Just a reminder of who did and did not serve their country (if that's what you want to call fighting in Vietnam)

Democrats

Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71.
David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72.
Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72.
Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan. 1971 as an army
journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade.
Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam.
Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-'47; Medal of Honor, WWII.
John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V,
Purple Hearts.
Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea.
Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star, Vietnam.
Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-1953.
Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74.
Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91.
Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII, receiving the Bronze Star and
seven campaign ribbons.
Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam, DFCs, Bronze Stars,
and Soldier's Medal.
Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple Heart, Silver Star and
Legion of Merit.
Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne, Purple Heart.
Bill McBride: Candidate for Fla. Governor. Marine in Vietnam; Bronze
Star with Combat V.
Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star.
Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57
Chuck Robb: Vietnam
Howell Heflin: Silver Star
George McGovern: Silver Star & DFC during WWII.
Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments. Entered draft but
received 311.
Jimmy Carter: Seven years in the Navy.
Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953
John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs and Air Medal with 18 Clusters.
Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII. Saved by Raoul
Wallenberg.

Republicans

Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
Tom Delay: did not serve.
Roy Blunt: did not serve.
Bill Frist: did not serve.
Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
Rick Santorum: did not serve.
Trent Lott: did not serve.
Dick Cheney: did not serve. Several deferments, the last by marriage.
John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to teach business.
Jeb Bush: did not serve.
Karl Rove: did not serve.
Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. "Bad knee." The man who attacked
Cleland's patriotism.
Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
Vin Weber: did not serve.
Richard Perle: did not serve.
Douglas Feith: did not serve.
Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
Richard Shelby: did not serve.
Jon Kyl: did not serve.
Tim Hutchison: did not serve.
Christopher Cox: did not serve.
Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as aviator and flight instructor.
George W. Bush: failed to complete his six-year National Guard; got
assigned to Alabama so he could campaign for family friend running for
U.S. Senate; failed to show up for required medical exam, disappeared
from duty.
Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a non-combat role making
movies.
B-1 Bob Dornan: Consciously enlisted after fighting was over in Korea.
Phil Gramm: did not serve.
John McCain: Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and
Distinguished Flying Cross.
Bob Dole: an honorable WWII veteran.
Chuck Hagel: two Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star, Vietnam.
Duke Cunningham: nominated for Medal of Honor, Navy Cross, Silver Stars,
Air Medals, Purple Hearts.
Jeff Sessions: Army Reserves, 1973-1986
Colin Powell: Long career in military management.
Don Nickles: National Guard, 1970-1976
Jim Inhofe: Army, 1954-1956
Dana Rohrabacher: did not serve.
John M. McHugh: did not serve.
JC Watts: did not serve.
Jack Kemp: did not serve. "Knee," although continued in NFL for 8 years.
Dan Quayle: Journalism unit of the Ind! iana National Guard.
Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
George Pataki: did not serve.
Spencer Abraham: did not serve.
John Engler: did not serve.
Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer.
Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army ZZZbase.
George H.W. Bush: Pilot in WWII. Shot down by the Japanese.
Tom Ridge: Bronze Star for Valor in Vietnam.
Sam Johnson: Combat in Korea and Vietnam, POW in Hanoi.
Ted Stevens: WWII pilot, DFCs, two Air Medals.
John Warner: Served in the Navy during WWII as a RM3
Heather Wilson: Air Force 1978-1989
Gerald Ford: Navy, WWII

Pundits & Preachers

Sean Hannity: did not serve.
Rush Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F with a 'pilonidal cyst.')
Bill O'Reilly: did not serve.
Michael Savage: did not serve.
George Will: did not serve.
Chris Matthews: did not serve.
Paul Gigot: did not serve.
Bill Bennett: did not serve.
Pat Buchanan: did not serve.
John Wayne: did not serve.
Bill Kristol: did not serve.
Kenneth Starr: did not serve.
Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
Clarence Thomas: did not serve.
Ralph Reed: did not serve.
Michael Medved: did not serve.
Charlie Daniels: did not serve.
Ted Nugent: did not serve.

[Sarge's Little Helper]

Just a reminder of who did and did not serve their country (if that's what you want to call fighting in Vietnam)

Democrats

Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71.
David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72.
Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72.
Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan. 1971 as an army
journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade.
Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam.
Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-'47; Medal of Honor, WWII.
John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V,
Purple Hearts.
Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea.
Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star, Vietnam.
Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-1953.
Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74.
Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91.
Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII, receiving the Bronze Star and
seven campaign ribbons.
Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam, DFCs, Bronze Stars,
and Soldier's Medal.
Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple Heart, Silver Star and
Legion of Merit.
Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne, Purple Heart.
Bill McBride: Candidate for Fla. Governor. Marine in Vietnam; Bronze
Star with Combat V.
Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star.
Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57
Chuck Robb: Vietnam
Howell Heflin: Silver Star
George McGovern: Silver Star & DFC during WWII.
Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments. Entered draft but
received 311.
Jimmy Carter: Seven years in the Navy.
Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953
John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs and Air Medal with 18 Clusters.
Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII. Saved by Raoul
Wallenberg.

Republicans

Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
Tom Delay: did not serve.
Roy Blunt: did not serve.
Bill Frist: did not serve.
Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
Rick Santorum: did not serve.
Trent Lott: did not serve.
Dick Cheney: did not serve. Several deferments, the last by marriage.
John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to teach business.
Jeb Bush: did not serve.
Karl Rove: did not serve.
Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. "Bad knee." The man who attacked
Cleland's patriotism.
Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
Vin Weber: did not serve.
Richard Perle: did not serve.
Douglas Feith: did not serve.
Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
Richard Shelby: did not serve.
Jon Kyl: did not serve.
Tim Hutchison: did not serve.
Christopher Cox: did not serve.
Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as aviator and flight instructor.
George W. Bush: failed to complete his six-year National Guard; got
assigned to Alabama so he could campaign for family friend running for
U.S. Senate; failed to show up for required medical exam, disappeared
from duty.
Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a non-combat role making
movies.
B-1 Bob Dornan: Consciously enlisted after fighting was over in Korea.
Phil Gramm: did not serve.
John McCain: Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and
Distinguished Flying Cross.
Bob Dole: an honorable WWII veteran.
Chuck Hagel: two Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star, Vietnam.
Duke Cunningham: nominated for Medal of Honor, Navy Cross, Silver Stars,
Air Medals, Purple Hearts.
Jeff Sessions: Army Reserves, 1973-1986
Colin Powell: Long career in military management.
Don Nickles: National Guard, 1970-1976
Jim Inhofe: Army, 1954-1956
Dana Rohrabacher: did not serve.
John M. McHugh: did not serve.
JC Watts: did not serve.
Jack Kemp: did not serve. "Knee," although continued in NFL for 8 years.
Dan Quayle: Journalism unit of the Ind! iana National Guard.
Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
George Pataki: did not serve.
Spencer Abraham: did not serve.
John Engler: did not serve.
Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer.
Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army ZZZbase.
George H.W. Bush: Pilot in WWII. Shot down by the Japanese.
Tom Ridge: Bronze Star for Valor in Vietnam.
Sam Johnson: Combat in Korea and Vietnam, POW in Hanoi.
Ted Stevens: WWII pilot, DFCs, two Air Medals.
John Warner: Served in the Navy during WWII as a RM3
Heather Wilson: Air Force 1978-1989
Gerald Ford: Navy, WWII

Pundits & Preachers

Sean Hannity: did not serve.
Rush Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F with a 'pilonidal cyst.')
Bill O'Reilly: did not serve.
Michael Savage: did not serve.
George Will: did not serve.
Chris Matthews: did not serve.
Paul Gigot: did not serve.
Bill Bennett: did not serve.
Pat Buchanan: did not serve.
John Wayne: did not serve.
Bill Kristol: did not serve.
Kenneth Starr: did not serve.
Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
Clarence Thomas: did not serve.
Ralph Reed: did not serve.
Michael Medved: did not serve.
Charlie Daniels: did not serve.
Ted Nugent: did not serve.

Oops. I wasn't paying attention. Tell me again what is going on.

[JCOOK]

Did you serve Ford?

[FORD]

Originally posted by JCOOK
Did you serve Ford?

Registered for Selective Service 1984. Would have gone gladly if the US had been legitimately threatened by an actual enemy (i.e. the USSR). Would NOT have gone to any imperialistic /corporatist bullshit like Iraq I or Iraq II.

[Big Train]

Thanks for pointing all that out Ford. It was actually enlightening for once. If only that were the point of this thread. Did any of them run to Canada and sit it out, now being rewarded for their cowardice with monuments?

[FORD]

Originally posted by Big Train
Thanks for pointing all that out Ford. It was actually enlightening for once. If only that were the point of this thread. Did any of them run to Canada and sit it out, now being rewarded for their cowardice with monuments?

Most of them were rich enough to buy their way out one way or another so a trip to Canada wasn't neccessary. My point is that I'm sick and tired of the right wingers questioning the patriotism of Kerry, a decorated war veteran, or Max Cleland, a triple amputee, or even Al Gore, who held a camera more often than an M-16, because at least they FUCKING SHOWED UP when they were called. They didn't claim to have "other priorities" like Cheney, or whine about a zit on their ass like Mush Limpdick. Suppose he might have gone if they had oxycontin back in the 60's??

And additionally, here you have a reckless foreign policy being written, driven by, and voted for by a bunch of chickenshit chickenhawks who didn't go to war when it was their turn, but now expect volunteers to line up for their insanity, and for the rest of us to support it.

Fuck that. It's hypocrisy, it's fascist, and it's downright insane.

[Big Train]

OK, I can accept that as your opinion.

However, how do you feel about the topic at hand? Do you feel deserters should have a monument?

[FORD]

Originally posted by Big Train
OK, I can accept that as your opinion.

However, how do you feel about the topic at hand? Do you feel deserters should have a monument?

No, and I don't believe they should occupy the White House either.

[wraytw]

Originally posted by FORD
No, and I don't believe they should occupy the White House either.

Not a big fan of Clinton, eh?

[FORD]

Originally posted by wraytw
Not a big fan of Clinton, eh?

Clinton wasn't a deserter. It's one thing to oppose a war and to legally avoid a draft through student deferrments and high lottery numbers. It's another thing entirely to beg your rich CIA agent/oilman daddy to get you into the National Guard in front of 155 people and then not even fill the obligation you signed up for.

[Big Train]

Ford,

I have finally found something I half agree with you on...

[Sgt Schultz]

Ford's right, after all, we know that only Veterans (or is it just combat veterans now?) are given legitimacy by the Left to order, or be in support of ordering, troops into combat. To be AGAINST it doesn't matter of course.

It does not matter to left wingers that fully half our commanders-in-chief have not been veterans.

Our three greatest war presidents Abraham Lincoln, Woodrow Wilson and Franklin Roosevelt did not serve in the military. (Lincoln spent a few weeks in the local militia in 1832).

Lincoln sacked McClellan because he was too timid (just think, a non-vet sacking a West Point grad and a Mexican War vet!) and too unwilling to see his beloved army suffer too many killed in action. He eventually brought in Grant (also a West Pointer and Mexican War vet) who knew what was needed to end the war – the willingness to send troops to their deaths to eventually win the war. McClellan ran against Lincoln in 1864 and shockingly McClellan was trounced. Weird, huh?

Lyndon Johnson served in the Navy but can any of us say that his decision making in Vietnam was good?

Whenever a Republican politician is in favor of some sort of military action the Left suddenly wants us to live in a world like that in the movie “Starship Troopers” where only veterans of military service were allowed the benefits of citizenship. One of those of course being free speech. But of course, the bar gets raised even higher now. Just plain old “military service” just doesn’t cut it anymore. Now, because Bush was “only” in the National Guard, that doesn’t count. No, one must have served IN COMBAT – otherwise, a chickenhawk. Even if Bush had gone to Vietnam and served in a non-combat role where no bullets were flying he’d still be called a chickenhawk.

And what of Hitler – a decorated military veteran who served many years in tough ground combat in the infantry – volunteering for dangerous service? Good thing we was a combat vet so that Germany and the world could benefit from his sound judgment regarding military matters.

[Sgt Schultz]

Follow up story...........

Canadian City Blocks Memorial to U.S. Draft Dodgers

Wed Sep 29, 7:16 PM ET


VANCOUVER, British Columbia (Reuters) - A Canadian community has blocked plans for a controversial memorial to Americans who fled to Canada to avoid the Vietnam War and U.S. military draft, officials said on Wednesday.

Peace activists wanted to build the memorial as part of a reunion celebration scheduled for 2006 in Nelson, a small city in the mountains of southeastern British Columbia, where many of the Vietnam-era draft dodgers eventually settled.

The proposal was denounced by the U.S. Veterans of Foreign Wars, and came as the issue of service in the military during Vietnam has become an emotional flashpoint in the U.S. presidential campaign.

Nelson's council passed a special resolution on Wednesday that would requires any memorial using public funds or being built on public lands to have "widespread community support."

"The Our Way Home monument does not meet this standard," the council said in a press release.

The veterans group and other U.S. critics of the plan had asked the White House to intervene, and threatened to organize an economic boycott of the Nelson area in the Kootenay Region, which has a significant tourism industry.

The Our Way Home group had already told city officials it was willing to locate the bronze sculpture somewhere else, but still planned to hold the peace gathering in July 2006.

The group said it wanted to honor both the U.S. citizens who moved to Canada, rather than serve in a war they politically opposed, and the Canadians who helped them build lives in a new country.

It has been estimated that 125,000 Americans fled to Canada to avoid Vietnam and prosecution under U.S. law, although about half returned home after President Jimmy Carter granted amnesty in 1997.