The Case For Compromise on Abortion.

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  • Nickdfresh
    SUPER MODERATOR

    • Oct 2004
    • 49205

    The Case For Compromise on Abortion.

    The Case for Compromise on Abortion
    How the pro-choice side is wielding a new principle that's tough to argue with

    By ANDREW SULLIVAN


    Mar. 7, 2005
    Something very unusual is happening to some Democrats and pro-choice abortion activists. They're getting smarter about their strategy. For years, they've harped on and on about a woman's right to choose, while failing to capture in any meaningful way the moral qualms so many of us have about abortion itself. So they often seemed strident, ideological and morally obtuse. They talked about abortion as if it were as morally trivial as a tooth extraction--not a profound moral choice that no woman would ever want to make if she could avoid it.

    But that obtuseness seems--finally and mercifully--to be changing. Senator Hillary Clinton led the way in a recent speech to abortion-rights activists. She said something so obvious and so right it's amazing it has taken this long for it to be uttered: whatever side you're on in the pro-choice vs. pro-life debate, we surely all want to lower the number of abortions. Whether you believe that an abortion is a difficult medical procedure for a woman or whether, like me, you believe that all abortions are an immoral taking of human life, we can all agree on a third principle: we would be better off with fewer of them. And the happy truth is, abortions have been declining in numbers. According to the most recent data from the Centers for Disease Control, since 1990 the number of reported legal abortions dropped from 1.4 million a year to 853,000 in 2001. The number of abortions for every 1,000 live births dropped from 344 to 246.

    How did this happen? No one is quite sure. It could be related to less access to abortion providers, but more likely it is a function of declining teenage pregnancies, more widespread use of contraception, abstinence programs and cultural shifts toward sexual restraint among young women. None of these strategies separately is a panacea, but each has a part to play. So what's the new pro-choice line? Let's keep up the progress. Let's defend the right to an abortion while doing all we can to ensure that fewer and fewer women exercise it. Leave the contentious issue of Roe v. Wade for one minute, quit the ideological bickering about when life begins for a while, take down the barricades, and craft a strategy that assumes abortion will be legal for the foreseeable future, but try to reduce it.

    Both sides have something to contribute. Sure, we should fund abstinence programs, as many pro-lifers argue. They can work for some women. But so too does expanded access to contraception. The pro-life Senate minority leader, Harry Reid, has a bill called the Prevention First Act that would expand access to birth control. Or you can focus on expanding adoption as an alternative to abortion (which means adoption by gays as well as straights). NARAL Pro-Choice America, formerly known as the National Abortion Rights Action League, actually took out an ad in the conservative Weekly Standard last month, appealing to pro-life groups to join in the antiabortion crusade--not by making it illegal but by increasing access to contraception.

    What's the downside? I cannot see any. Both sides can still fight to keep abortion legal or illegal. But both can also work hard to reduce the moral and human toll of abortion itself. Why shouldn't a future Democratic candidate commit to an actual goal of reducing abortions nationally by, say, one-fifth in a four-year term? Alas, the pro-life side is leery. A key part of their coalition is made up of conservative Catholics who oppose any kind of birth-control devices; others are hostile to any adoption rights for gay couples. Still others may fear that if the number of abortions drops significantly, their argument for making it completely illegal may become less salient.

    But none of those arguments makes sense on its own terms. If abortion really is the evil that pro-lifers believe it is, they should stop at nothing to reduce its prevalence--now. Is it really better that someone should have an abortion rather than be on the pill? Is it really preferable for an unborn life to be snuffed out than to allow him to have loving gay parents? Those are the questions that pro-choicers should be posing to pro-lifers. Saving human life is the priority. Why are you so reluctant to do it? Call this position the pro-choice, pro-life compromise. If Democrats want to regain credibility on moral issues, it's a great way to start. And if Republicans want to prevent abortions rather than use the issue as a political tool, they can get on board. We have nothing to lose but trauma and pain and politics and death. And we have something far more precious to gain: life itself. •

    Time
  • Seshmeister
    ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

    • Oct 2003
    • 35198

    #2
    It's only a big issue in the States.

    As I said before anyone that wants an abortion isn't a fit parent so shouldn't be in the gene pool.

    It's ok to kill Iraqi kids for the greater good but not to terminate fetuses of people who have proved already that they aren't up to it?

    Comment

    • FORD
      ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

      • Jan 2004
      • 58789

      #3
      Andrew "bareback" Sullivan preaching morality..... now that's entirely too much
      Eat Us And Smile

      Cenk For America 2024!!

      Justice Democrats


      "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

      Comment

      • Cathedral
        ROTH ARMY ELITE
        • Jan 2004
        • 6621

        #4
        Hey, I'm all for compromise if it reduces the rate of abortions.

        Now i'm not going to go through my view on abortion rights again, i'll spare you all that.

        But i firmly believe that abortions should not be the sole right of the mother, there should be rights to that fetus afforded to the fathers of those kids.

        Just because the mother has no business raising kids doesn't mean the father is equal in that assumption.
        Some guys make big mistakes when sleeping around and when Spermin Herman gets to thinking, bad things can happen and in a big way.

        Personally, if the numbers continue to drop i'm a happy guy.
        just not as happy as i could be of course.

        I'm all for compromise as long as equal rights can apply.
        exceptions being medical reasons, rape and/or incest.

        I'll stop now before i piss off a woman who thinks i want to control her body because that is not what i want to do.
        I just want legal valid input for the fathers, period.

        Comment

        • FORD
          ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

          • Jan 2004
          • 58789

          #5
          The answer to minimizing abortions on this planet is amazingly simple.

          1) The Catholics, Mormons, and other repressed idiots get over their INSANE idea that birth control = murder. Uh, if life begins at conception, then let's make sure the conception doesn't happen. Get it?

          2) Right wingers get over their opposition to sex education and teen access to contraception. Should abstinence be taught and encouraged? Absolutely! But let's also be realistic and admit that it ain't gonna work 100% of the time. When it comes right down to it, what's your choice? A kid who's fucking responsibly, a kid who's pregnant, or a kid with herpes, HIV, or whatever. Of course it's easy to say "none of the above", but not so easy to make that a reality without some seriously repressive measures (chastity belts, deadbolts on the bedroom door, or whatever)

          3) Convicted of rape or incest? Say good by to your dick. And if you rape a child - go to general population of the prison and let the convicts handle the rest.

          Do these three things and eventually the only abortions on this planet will be the rare occasions where the mother's life is in jeapordy.
          Eat Us And Smile

          Cenk For America 2024!!

          Justice Democrats


          "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

          Comment

          • Cathedral
            ROTH ARMY ELITE
            • Jan 2004
            • 6621

            #6
            100% Amen, Broham!

            Comment

            • FORD
              ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

              • Jan 2004
              • 58789

              #7
              Now if I only had $200 million to burn, I'd run for President....
              Eat Us And Smile

              Cenk For America 2024!!

              Justice Democrats


              "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

              Comment

              • BigBadBrian
                TOASTMASTER GENERAL
                • Jan 2004
                • 10625

                #8
                Originally posted by FORD

                3) Convicted of rape or incest? Say good by to your dick. And if you rape a child - go to general population of the prison and let the convicts handle the rest.

                Run that on the platform of your next Democratic Presidential candidate.
                “If bullshit was currency, Joe Biden would be a billionaire.” - George W. Bush

                Comment

                • Cathedral
                  ROTH ARMY ELITE
                  • Jan 2004
                  • 6621

                  #9
                  Originally posted by FORD
                  Now if I only had $200 million to burn, I'd run for President....
                  I'd be willing to contribute to the campaign, as long as you offered me a job in the new Admin.
                  I think a person who installs their own checks and balances in their organization would benefit the people much more efficiantly as opposed to being on a power grab where the opposition is rendered ineffective.

                  I'm not a "Yes" man, I am a "Maybe, but you could also consider this" man.

                  With me on your side i would guarentee your message would be heard in the Red States.
                  And nobody would be offended by anything i do.

                  Comment

                  • DrMaddVibe
                    ROTH ARMY ELITE
                    • Jan 2004
                    • 6682

                    #10
                    My take on abortion...let them have all of them that they want.

                    Let them have same-sex marriages too!

                    In less than 3 generations time there won't be a Democratic party, hell there won't be a liberal left in the US!
                    http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...auders1zl5.gif
                    http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c4...willywonka.gif

                    Comment

                    • kentuckyklira
                      Veteran
                      • Sep 2004
                      • 1775

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Seshmeister
                      It's only a big issue in the States.

                      As I said before anyone that wants an abortion isn't a fit parent so shouldn't be in the gene pool.

                      It's ok to kill Iraqi kids for the greater good but not to terminate fetuses of people who have proved already that they aren't up to it?
                      Don´t forget, god told Bush to order the slaughter of Iraqi kids!
                      http://images.zeit.de/gesellschaft/z...ie-540x304.jpg

                      Comment

                      • Warham
                        DIAMOND STATUS
                        • Mar 2004
                        • 14589

                        #12
                        No, God didn't tell Bush that.

                        Comment

                        • Nickdfresh
                          SUPER MODERATOR

                          • Oct 2004
                          • 49205

                          #13
                          Originally posted by FORD
                          Andrew "bareback" Sullivan preaching morality..... now that's entirely too much
                          Well he'll NEVER get any girls pregnant! So he has a low risk of contributing to the abortion problem.

                          Comment

                          • Nickdfresh
                            SUPER MODERATOR

                            • Oct 2004
                            • 49205

                            #14
                            Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
                            My take on abortion...let them have all of them that they want.

                            Let them have same-sex marriages too!

                            In less than 3 generations time there won't be a Democratic party, hell there won't be a liberal left in the US!
                            Whose them? And your statements have been said before in the 50's, by McCarthyists.

                            Comment

                            • FORD
                              ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

                              • Jan 2004
                              • 58789

                              #15
                              Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
                              My take on abortion...let them have all of them that they want.

                              Let them have same-sex marriages too!

                              In less than 3 generations time there won't be a Democratic party, hell there won't be a liberal left in the US!
                              Now Assvibe, I realize you were trying to be funny, but your generalization of abortion and homosexuality as "liberal" things is completely false.

                              George Bush Jr himself paid for an abortion in the early 70's, and since Junior is never in the same room with Democrats for very long, we have to assume the woman he was with (not Pickles BTW) was also a Republican.

                              And as for gay Republicans, there's Mary Cheney, Matt Drudge, JimmyJeff GannonGuckert, David Drier, Lindsey Graham, Mush Limpdick, Scotty McLellan , and the author of this column Andrew Sullivan, just to name a few.

                              So by your own logic, the Republican party will be out of existence in about three generations too.

                              Guess it might be time to vote Green after all
                              Eat Us And Smile

                              Cenk For America 2024!!

                              Justice Democrats


                              "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

                              Comment

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