Question about the Army..

[SilvioDante]

I see a lot of pictures and post all over the internet say how George Bush should send his daughters over to fight. Only then will some support the war. Well, I have one question.... How many soldiers over in Iraq right now were drafted????

It seems to me that the soldiers and parents of said are complaining that they have to own up to their end of the deal. Oh sure, they volunteered to get the free college, the tax free DVD's at the PX and the 10% at Taco Bell, all just for being in the army. But when push came to shove and the Army asked them to do what they enlised for, now the Army is wrong.

And, no, I am or was not in the military, because I KNEW that someday someone might try to shoot my ass. I do personally know several i Iraq, all happy to do their duty!!

GOD BLESS ALL THE FINE SOLDIERS IN HARMS WAY. COME HOME SAFE AND SOON!!!!!

[Phil theStalker]

Originally posted by SilvioDante
I see a lot of pictures and post all over the internet say how George Bush should send his daughters over to fight. Only then will some support the war. Well, I have one question.... How many soldiers over in Iraq right now were drafted????

It seems to me that the soldiers and parents of said are complaining that they have to own up to their end of the deal. Oh sure, they volunteered to get the free college, the tax free DVD's at the PX and the 10% at Taco Bell, all just for being in the army. But when push came to shove and the Army asked them to do what they enlised for, now the Army is wrong.

Thanks for jumping into this forum, SD. Nobody here has ever said the Army is wrong. Nobody.

The people here say the President is wrong (or they say he's right). The people don't say the army is right or wrong. The army, the whole military, is only following orders from GEORGE BUSH, supra-asshole!

Do you see that there is a BIG difference in what you claim using your wording about the army?

Watchout what you blame on the army. The army may takeover the White House and the entire U.S. government in a coup. That would be wrong, but it's the only thing the army can do when the people are useless to preserve their own constitution of rights against a global civilian group of military industrialists (Halliburton, Bechtel, the Carlye group, GE, and the rest old and new), a small cabal of maniacs.

[FORD]

It's not so much that "the Army is wrong" as it is the Army is being used wrong.

The military forces of the United States of America exist for the purpose of defending the United States of America.

Any other use for them is wrong. That includes Vietnam & Korea, but the current example is even worse. At least those wrong wars had the possibility, far fetched though it was, of the "commies trying to take over the world".

They can't even claim that for this Iraq mess. Instead, it's just been a series of lies. Fictional weapons. Fictional ties to semi-fictional terrorists. Fictional threats.

All from a fictional president.

[Nickdfresh]

Forty-percent of all forces in IRAQ are Nat'l GUARDSMEN ans Reservists. Those people did not join up to be used as active duty, full-time troops. Many careers have been ruined as a result of this.

[Kelly_Clark]

And it hasn't done much for gas prices either.

I realize people just like to complain... but I don't understand why they want to take it out on the daughters. They could instead bring up Bush's own service (***cough***) in the military.

Support your troops. They don't make the choices, they suffer the consequences.

[Phil theStalker]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Forty-percent of all forces in IRAQ are Nat'l GUARDSMEN ans Reservists. Those people did not join up to be used as active duty, full-time troops. Many careers have been ruined as a result of this.

Death has a way of killing a career.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

I won't speak for the others here that have done military time...

But let me say my peace, from someone who did exactly 20 years and 9 days in the military...

The VAST majority of military people who you'll run into have absolutely no problem with deploying into a combat area of operations if the need arises...

The first Iraq war, in which Iraq invaded a soverign country, was such a need...

Humanitarian deployments are another....

HOWEVER, what we do have a problem with is being deployed for the wrong reason...

And that "wrong reason" could mean several things, not necessarily talking strictly about the Iraq war...

[DrMaddVibe]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Forty-percent of all forces in IRAQ are Nat'l GUARDSMEN ans Reservists. Those people did not join up to be used as active duty, full-time troops. Many careers have been ruined as a result of this.

They knew they MIGHT be though!

That doesn't wash and it didn't back when either!

[Warham]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Forty-percent of all forces in IRAQ are Nat'l GUARDSMEN ans Reservists. Those people did not join up to be used as active duty, full-time troops. Many careers have been ruined as a result of this.

About 33% of those who served in Vietnam were drafted.

[FORD]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
They knew they MIGHT be though!

That doesn't wash and it didn't back when either!

When was the last time the National Guard was deployed overseas? Certainly not in Vietnam. If there were any risk of that, Chimpy and Quayle would have never used it as a draft dodging strategy.

In fact sometimes I wonder if the BCE didn't send the National Guard over to Iraq just to make Junior's own "service" seem retroactively more relevant.

One thing's for sure though... The Louisiana and Mississippi National Guards would be much better utilized at home right now.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by FORD
One thing's for sure though... The Louisiana and Mississippi National Guards would be much better utilized at home right now.

Good point.


Warham, nice avatar.

[Warham]

There's 6,000 National Guardsmen down in that area. They said they have enough. We'll see.

[DrMaddVibe]

Originally posted by FORD
When was the last time the National Guard was deployed overseas? Certainly not in Vietnam. If there were any risk of that, Chimpy and Quayle would have never used it as a draft dodging strategy.

In fact sometimes I wonder if the BCE didn't send the National Guard over to Iraq just to make Junior's own "service" seem retroactively more relevant.

One thing's for sure though... The Louisiana and Mississippi National Guards would be much better utilized at home right now.

When did YOU serve again?

STFU!

[Warham]

I like how the Dems attack Bush's and Quayle's honorable service, but when you mention Bill Clinton's REAL draft dodging, the conversation changes to how he nobly rallied against the war over in England.

Sure.

[Hardrock69]

What honorable service by Bush?

[Cathedral]

It was indeed honorable, do you know how tough it is to teach a monkey to fly?

[DrMaddVibe]

A jet fighter no less!

[SilvioDante]

I guess I was thinking more of the Peace Mom, Cindy Sheehan. Bush owes her nothing because her son joined on his own. He was not drafted. So, saying that sending his daughters over like he sent her son doesn't fly with me. He joined knowing that he had to follow orders of the COmmander in Chief. Lets say I joined the Army and John Kerry was president, if he ordered me to go preform partial birth abortions or had out Welfare checks I would have to, even though I would belive it was wrong and I couldn't complain. Once again, this is why I didn't serve.

As far as the National Guard, what do they do on their "Weekend Warrior" times each month. Practice filling sandbags?? No, they prepare to fight a battle, be it infrastructure or combat. So to think that you would NEVER be sent into harms way is wrong.

BTW - Never for this war. I live is a military town and I know to many that have gone. But, since we are their, we need to finish. I just hope someone lets our guys finish alittle safe than they are now.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
When did YOU serve again?

STFU!

When are you joining the National GUARD to help victims of the hurricanes tough guy?...Again, STFU.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Warham
I like how the Dems attack Bush's and Quayle's honorable service, but when you mention Bill Clinton's REAL draft dodging, the conversation changes to how he nobly rallied against the war over in England.

[Warham]

I wouldn't misspell.

Nice attempt though.

My comments are quite correct.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Warham
I wouldn't misspell.

Nice attempt though.

My comments are quite correct.

[fe_lung]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Forty-percent of all forces in IRAQ are Nat'l GUARDSMEN ans Reservists. Those people did not join up to be used as active duty, full-time troops. Many careers have been ruined as a result of this.

True, but when you join the guard you know that the possibility is there. Just because you ignore the fine print doesn't make it less binding.

The tradeoff, I believe, is this: Those in the military accept that they may be put in harms way, however they trust that their leader will not risk their lives without good reason.

Clearly, this is where the current administration has failed the military. They are embroiled in a fight which shouldn't have been fought but which, now that it's begun, can not be abandoned without endangering our nation.

[fe_lung]

Originally posted by SilvioDante


BTW - Never for this war. I live is a military town and I know to many that have gone. But, since we are their, we need to finish. I just hope someone lets our guys finish alittle safe than they are now.

Well said. Iraq was clearly no danger to us before the war. However, now that the region is de-stabilized we clearly have a lot to loose by not seeing things through. I believe that this will take another decade, perhaps more, before things begin to right themselves. If we quit now, our soldiers died for nothing.

However, it's also very likely that, in 50 to 100 years, the regime change in Iraq may stand as the event which began to change and ultimately stabilize the entire region.... I certainly hope so.

[DrMaddVibe]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
When are you joining the National GUARD to help victims of the hurricanes tough guy?...Again, STFU.

Hey tsunami crybaby fag...I don't need your attempt at dogpiling.

I see right through it.

Commie bastard.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
Hey tsunami crybaby fag...I don't need your attempt at dogpiling.

I see right through it.

Commie bastard.

It's hard for a guy to see through anything with his head up his ass...

FaggVibe

[DrMaddVibe]

Only in your fag dreams nicky!

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
Only in my fag dreams nicky!

[ashstralia]

Originally posted by FORD
It's not so much that "the Army is wrong" as it is the Army is being used wrong.

The military forces of the United States of America exist for the purpose of defending the United States of America.

Any other use for them is wrong. That includes Vietnam & Korea, but the current example is even worse. At least those wrong wars had the possibility, far fetched though it was, of the "commies trying to take over the world".

They can't even claim that for this Iraq mess. Instead, it's just been a series of lies. Fictional weapons. Fictional ties to semi-fictional terrorists. Fictional threats.

All from a fictional president.

what's your take on mogadishu?

[ashstralia]

noy just you, ford, but generally?

nick? warham?

i'm genuinely interested to read your thoughts,

cause i only know the story from the movie, and doco's.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by ashstralia
noy just you, ford, but generally?

nick? warham?

i'm genuinely interested to read your thoughts,

cause i only know the story from the movie, and doco's.

It probably was a bad idea to send troops into SOMALIA without a comprehensive, realistic plan to bring a permanent order. The central reason why US troops were sent there by George BUSH I was to secure food stuffs and prevent famine as being used as a weapon of the civil war. Mission creep set in and it soon became the US providence to apprehend Aideed, the most obstinate of the clan warlords...

There's a lot of blame to go around on that one, including the BUSH and CLINTON Administrations, and the Pentagon/UN commands. While I think that it's a good idea to feed the starving, it's tough when no real "state" exists in a nation. There was no gov't there and basically the entire nation was an anarchy with factions of clans vying for control. This made for an impossible situation. In the end, the UN ended up getting sucked into the civil war rather than just guarding foodstuffs and relief workers.

The big problem was the same thing that happened in AFGHANISTAN, and resulted in the TALIBAN,and later, al QAIDA taking control...Somalia was once an important ally that switched sides back and forth between the US and USSR during the cold war. When the cold war started winding down in the 80's, we began to ignore them, just like AFGHANISTAN.

The Anarchy created after a power vacuum breeds either these extremist orders or eternal civil war. But I don't think I'd have sent troops in, at least without a real UN plan to establish some sort of order and forcing the factions to unify into some sort of government rather than just ignoring them as we initially tried to do. We ignore these places because The West has a very short sighted attention span...


Some good did come from the deaths of 18 or 19 American Rangers/Delta and numerous Pakistanis Army though, Aideed was mysteriously assassinated by a sniper a few years after (revenge?), and his son, who was once living in the US and in the USMC Reserve, took over, and I think he has worked with the opposition to bring some sort of order to SOMALIA...

Here's the latest on that country:

http://za.today.reuters.com/news/New...T-20050830.XML

[Nickdfresh]

Speaking of SOMALIA, it seems like New ORLEANS is turning into a looters paradise and a shithole. I'm hearing of relief trucks being hijacked on the news this morning...

[ashstralia]

thanx. nick.

[ashstralia]

thanx, nick.