I simply find it amazing that Republicans continue to back these corrupt criminals...

[Hardrock69]

I mean, I would at least assume those who CONTINUE to support the BCE are intelligent humans with common sense and decency....

Yet for some reason they continue to support the BCE.

Despite the fact that our Federal deficit is at record highs, our trade deficit is at record highs, hundreds of thousands of people have been murdered and we are at a war with no end in sight based upon a pack of lies, the President is a traitor who should have been tried and convicted of desertion in 1973, and should NOW be tried for high treason, his cabinet is involved in the highest order of criminal activity, Rumsfeld refuses to reimburse families who have had to buy body armour for their loved ones (indicating he is nothing more than a murderer in a suit and tie for wanting our soldiers to fight in Iraq without adequate protection in the first place), not to mention the Gitmo, Abu Ghraib and other prison torture of prisoners advocated by the BCE, as well as the shuttling of prisoners around the world by plane to countries that have no laws against torture...

Then there are the numerous financial crimes whereby close friends and associates are awarded huge multi-billion dollar NO-BID contracts, and continue to be awarded them, despite tons of evidence they have been involved in ripping off the Federal Government at the expense of the American Taxpayer...

Not to mention complicity in 9/11 which is the BCE's MAIN reason for beginning all this bullshit to begin with....


The list of atrocitites and crimes committed by the Bush Criminal Empire continues to grow day by day, yet there are still so many brainwashed Americans that support the BCE.

Therefore, it seems to me that these same supporters can easily be said to support murder, theft, corruption, blackmail, torture, desertion, high treason, etc.


Some of these same supporters are on this board.

They advocate genocide, they advocate murder, they advocate high treason.

If they did not, they would not be so quick to defend the Bush Criminal Empire...


It just amazes me...

[FORD]

**Crickets chirping in Busheep land**

[Jerry Falwell]

Wow, talk about ignorance. I mean some of the things posted in the original post are things that I am not proud of with this President. For instance, the Federal deficit and Trade deficit.
As for all of the Crap that happened at Gitmo and Abu, those individuals who were responsible are being punished. Where does GW deserve the blame for their actions? I've heard of guilt by association, but come on... isn't this a little ridiculous.
Desertion in 1973? At least this man had some sort of involvement in the military, and of his free will. What did Clinton do again?
I better stop before I get so worked up that I neglect my current responsibilities.
It is pretty tough to see any good in somebody when you have been brainwashed to hate them because of their political affiliation.

[Hardrock69]

You fucking asshole.

I do not hate someone because of their political affiliation.

I despise murderers, thieves, con artists, and corrupt megolamaniac power junkies who will kill millions to satisfy their lust for power and the almighty dollar.

And I certainly despise those that support them.

Apparently you support murder, etc as well.

As for the Abu Ghraib situation, only patsies are being punished. Those in power who ordered and continue to order such activities are getting away scott free.

Fucking hypocritical fuck.

To put on such a fucking persona as a "Christian" Televangelist and then come out in support of such evil people only shows that you truly are a Satan worshipper in every sense of the word.

[Jerry Falwell]

Originally posted by Hardrock69
You fucking asshole.

I do not hate someone because of their political affiliation.

I despise murderers, thieves, con artists, and corrupt megolamaniac power junkies who will kill millions to satisfy their lust for power and the almighty dollar.

And I certainly despise those that support them.

Apparently you support murder, etc as well.

As for the Abu Ghraib situation, only patsies are being punished. Those in power who ordered and continue to order such activities are getting away scott free.

Fucking hypocritical fuck.

To put on such a fucking persona as a "Christian" Televangelist and then come out in support of such evil people only shows that you truly are a Satan worshipper in every sense of the word.

I applaud you for not hating someone because of their political affiliation, but you failed in the area of hating someone because of their avatar!
For the record, let it be known that I am not the real Jerry Falwell- nor do I 100% agree with his beliefs or stances... but I do enjoy using him to encite a reaction in a liberal environment. God Bless debate!

I also despise murderers, theives, cons, and any power junkie as well. Hence the reason I am not in politics myself. However, when given two choices, I typically choose the lesser of two evils on voting day.
I will not defend Mr. Bush on anything that he has done wrong, but until it is proven that he has had direct influence in these accusations, I choose to support him 100% as my President. I didn't like Clinton as an individual, but I still would have fought for him out of respect for his position in the Chain of Command.

I will say that more people need to be punished for the prison torture stuff if they did/ordered anything that was not legal. I agree with you there as well. I didn't represent myself well in my last comment about this subject. But, I don't feel that President Bush had any direct connection (other than being Commander in Chief) with these incidents.

I do feel that war is necessary at times. Although our President led us to war based on some false information, nothing has proven that he did so knowingly. Plus, we sure didn't hurt Iraq by getting rid of Sadam as their president.

Does all of this make me a "Fucking hypocritical fuck"?

LOL... satanas bgaino exo!

[lesfunk]

democrats and republicans support the same kind of criminals.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by lesfunk
democrats and republicans support the same kind of criminals.

It's amazing some people can't see that.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
It's amazing some people can't see that.

Yeah, those phoney-balony, hypocritical "Christians" in the Republican party violating most of the Ten Commandments, then asking for them to be placed in court rooms, is kind of funny...

The Party of God indeed...

I sure hope Tom DeLAY gets a good look at those Ten Commandments...

[Hardrock69]

Originally posted by lesfunk
democrats and republicans support the same kind of criminals.

Ok, tell me..which Democratic President in recent history sent us to war based on lies? Which Democratic President has a Vice-President named Dick Cheney? Which Democratic President has had an administration who was in collusion with terrorists who plowed passenger jets into skyscrapers in NYC?

Sure, I do believe to some degree all politicians are corrupt, but then none have come even close to matching the genocide, corruption and high treason of GW Bush.

[Hardrock69]

Originally posted by Jerry Falwell
I applaud you for not hating someone because of their political affiliation, but you failed in the area of hating someone because of their avatar!
For the record, let it be known that I am not the real Jerry Falwell- nor do I 100% agree with his beliefs or stances... but I do enjoy using him to encite a reaction in a liberal environment. God Bless debate!

I also despise murderers, theives, cons, and any power junkie as well. Hence the reason I am not in politics myself. However, when given two choices, I typically choose the lesser of two evils on voting day.
I will not defend Mr. Bush on anything that he has done wrong, but until it is proven that he has had direct influence in these accusations, I choose to support him 100% as my President. I didn't like Clinton as an individual, but I still would have fought for him out of respect for his position in the Chain of Command.

I will say that more people need to be punished for the prison torture stuff if they did/ordered anything that was not legal. I agree with you there as well. I didn't represent myself well in my last comment about this subject. But, I don't feel that President Bush had any direct connection (other than being Commander in Chief) with these incidents.

I do feel that war is necessary at times. Although our President led us to war based on some false information, nothing has proven that he did so knowingly. Plus, we sure didn't hurt Iraq by getting rid of Sadam as their president.

Does all of this make me a "Fucking hypocritical fuck"?

LOL... satanas bgaino exo!

Not at all. Certainly if you were a devout follower of Jerry Falwell, or Chimp-boy it might.

You wish to be addressed as Jerry Falwell? Then you deserve any blasphemy thrown in his direction.

You don't like it? Sign up under a name not affiliated with an asshole like Fuckhead Falwell.

[lesfunk]

Originally posted by Hardrock69
? Which Democratic President has a Vice-President named Dick Cheney?

I like that one.
Look, You don't need to convince me that Bush is a scumbag. I voted for that asshole and he made a jackass out of me. Plain and simple.
But if you think the Liberal Democrat party is really more virtous than these neo con jackoffs. You're being played bigtime.

[Hardrock69]

Originally posted by Hardrock69
Sure, I do believe to some degree all politicians are corrupt...

From my above post....

How can you tell if a politician is lying?

His lips are moving...

[Warham]

The Clinton Legacy

The Progressive Review

This list was compiled at the end of the Clinton administration.

Our Clinton Scandal Index

RECORDS SET

- The only president ever impeached on grounds of personal malfeasance
- Most number of convictions and guilty pleas by friends and associates*
- Most number of cabinet officials to come under criminal investigation
- Most number of witnesses to flee country or refuse to testify
- Most number of witnesses to die suddenly
- First president sued for sexual harassment.
- First president accused of rape.
- First first lady to come under criminal investigation
- Largest criminal plea agreement in an illegal campaign contribution case
- First president to establish a legal defense fund.
- First president to be held in contempt of court
- Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions
- Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions from abroad

* According to our best information, 40 government officials were indicted or convicted in the wake of Watergate. A reader computes that there was a total of 31 Reagan era convictions, including 14 because of Iran-Contra and 16 in the Department of Housing & Urban Development scandal. 47 individuals and businesses associated with the Clinton machine were convicted of or pleaded guilty to crimes with 33 of these occurring during the Clinton administration itself. There were in addition 61 indictments or misdemeanor charges. 14 persons were imprisoned. A key difference between the Clinton story and earlier ones was the number of criminals with whom he was associated before entering the White House.

Using a far looser standard that included resignations, David R. Simon and D. Stanley Eitzen in Elite Deviance, say that 138 appointees of the Reagan administration either resigned under an ethical cloud or were criminally indicted. Curiously Haynes Johnson uses the same figure but with a different standard in "Sleep-Walking Through History: America in the Reagan Years: "By the end of his term, 138 administration officials had been convicted, had been indicted, or had been the subject of official investigations for official misconduct and/or criminal violations. In terms of number of officials involved, the record of his administration was the worst ever."


STARR-RAY INVESTIGATION

- Number of Starr-Ray investigation convictions or guilty pleas to date (including one governor, one associate attorney general and two Clinton business partners): 14
- Number of Clinton Cabinet members who came under criminal investigation: 5
- Number of Reagan cabinet members who came under criminal investigation: 4
- Number of top officials jailed in the Teapot Dome Scandal: 3

CRIME STATS

- Number of individuals and businesses associated with the Clinton machine who have been convicted of or pleaded guilty to crimes: 47
- Number of these convictions during Clinton's presidency: 33
- Number of indictments/misdemeanor charges: 61
- Number of congressional witnesses who have pleaded the Fifth Amendment, fled the country to avoid testifying, or (in the case of foreign witnesses) refused to be interviewed: 122

SMALTZ INVESTIGATION

- Guilty pleas and convictions obtained by Donald Smaltz in cases involving charges of bribery and fraud against former Agriculture Secretary Mike Espy and associated individuals and businesses: 15
- Acquitted or overturned cases (including Espy): 6
- Fines and penalties assessed: $11.5 million
- Amount Tyson Food paid in fines and court costs: $6 million

CLINTON MACHINE CRIMES
FOR WHICH CONVICTIONS
HAVE BEEN OBTAINED

Drug trafficking (3), racketeering, extortion, bribery (4), tax evasion, kickbacks, embezzlement (2), fraud (12), conspiracy (5), fraudulent loans, illegal gifts (1), illegal campaign contributions (5), money laundering (6), perjury, obstruction of justice.

OTHER MATTERS INVESTIGATED BY SPECIAL PROSECUTORS
AND CONGRESS, OR REPORTED IN THE MEDIA

Bank and mail fraud, violations of campaign finance laws, illegal foreign campaign funding, improper exports of sensitive technology, physical violence and threats of violence, solicitation of perjury, intimidation of witnesses, bribery of witnesses, attempted intimidation of prosecutors, perjury before congressional committees, lying in statements to federal investigators and regulatory officials, flight of witnesses, obstruction of justice, bribery of cabinet members, real estate fraud, tax fraud, drug trafficking, failure to investigate drug trafficking, bribery of state officials, use of state police for personal purposes, exchange of promotions or benefits for sexual favors, using state police to provide false court testimony, laundering of drug money through a state agency, false reports by medical examiners and others investigating suspicious deaths, the firing of the RTC and FBI director when these agencies were investigating Clinton and his associates, failure to conduct autopsies in suspicious deaths, providing jobs in return for silence by witnesses, drug abuse, improper acquisition and use of 900 FBI files, improper futures trading, murder, sexual abuse of employees, false testimony before a federal judge, shredding of documents, withholding and concealment of subpoenaed documents, fabricated charges against (and improper firing of) White House employees, inviting drug traffickers, foreign agents and participants in organized crime to the White House.

ARKANSAS ALZHEIMER'S

Number of times that Clinton figures who testified in court or before Congress said that they didn't remember, didn't know, or something similar.

Bill Kennedy 116
Harold Ickes 148
Ricki Seidman 160
Bruce Lindsey 161
Bill Burton 191
Mark Gearan 221
Mack McLarty 233
Neil Egglseston 250
Hillary Clinton 250
John Podesta 264
Jennifer O'Connor 343
Dwight Holton 348
Patsy Thomasson 420
Jeff Eller 697

FROM THE WASHINGTON TIMES: In the portions of President Clinton's Jan. 17 deposition that have been made public in the Paula Jones case, his memory failed him 267 times. This is a list of his answers and how many times he gave each one.

I don't remember - 71
I don't know - 62
I'm not sure - 17
I have no idea - 10
I don't believe so - 9
I don't recall - 8
I don't think so - 8
I don't have any specific recollection - 6
I have no recollection - 4
Not to my knowledge - 4
I just don't remember - 4
I don't believe - 4
I have no specific recollection - 3
I might have - 3
I don't have any recollection of that - 2 I don't have a specific memory - 2
I don't have any memory of that - 2
I just can't say - 2
I have no direct knowledge of that - 2
I don't have any idea - 2
Not that I recall - 2
I don't believe I did - 2
I can't remember - 2
I can't say - 2
I do not remember doing so - 2
Not that I remember - 2
I'm not aware - 1
I honestly don't know - 1
I don't believe that I did - 1
I'm fairly sure - 1
I have no other recollection - 1
I'm not positive - 1
I certainly don't think so - 1
I don't really remember - 1
I would have no way of remembering that - 1
That's what I believe happened - 1
To my knowledge, no - 1
To the best of my knowledge - 1
To the best of my memory - 1
I honestly don't recall - 1
I honestly don't remember - 1
That's all I know - 1
I don't have an independent recollection of that - 1
I don't actually have an independent memory of that - 1
As far as I know - 1
I don't believe I ever did that - 1
That's all I know about that - 1
I'm just not sure - 1
Nothing that I remember - 1
I simply don't know - 1
I would have no idea - 1
I don't know anything about that - 1
I don't have any direct knowledge of that - 1
I just don't know - 1
I really don't know - 1
I can't deny that, I just -- I have no memory of that at all - 1

THE CLINTON LEGACY:
LONELY HONOR

Here are some of the all too rare public officials, reporters, and others who spoke truth to the dismally corrupt power of Bill and Hill Clinton's political machine -- some at risk to their careers, others at risk to their lives. A few points to note:

- Those corporatist media reporters who attempted to report the story often found themselves muzzled; some even lost their jobs. The only major dailies that consistently handled the story well were the Wall Street Journal and the Washington Times.

- Nobody on this list has gotten rich and many you may not have even heard of. Taking on the Clintons typically has not been a happy or rewarding experience. At least ten reporters have been fired, transferred off their beats, resigned, or otherwise gotten into trouble because of their work on the scandals. Whistleblowing is even less appreciated within the government. One study of whistleblowers found that 232 out of 233 them reported suffering retaliation; another study found reprisals in about 95% of cases.

- Contrary to the popular impression, the politics of those listed ranges from the left to the right, and from the ideological to the independent.

- We have not included victims of the Clinton machine, some of whom have acted with considerable danger and at considerable risk to themselves. They will be included on a later list.


PUBLIC OFFICIALS

MIGUEL RODRIGUEZ was a prosecutor on the staff of Kenneth Starr. His attempts to uncover the truth in the Vincent Foster death case were repeatedly foiled and he was the subject of planted stories undermining his credibility and implying that he was unstable. Rodriguez eventually resigned.

JEAN DUFFEY: Head of a joint federal-county drug task force in Arkansas. Her first instructions from her boss: "Jean, you are not to use the drug task force to investigate any public official." Duffey's work, however, led deep into the heart of the Dixie Mafia, including members of the Clinton machine and the investigation of the so-called "train deaths." Ambrose Evans-Pritchard reports that when she produced a star witness who could testify to Clinton's involvement with cocaine, the local prosecuting attorney, Dan Harmon issued a subpoena for all the task force records, including "the incriminating files on his own activities. If Duffey had complied it would have exposed 30 witnesses and her confidential informants to violent retributions. She refused." Harmon issued a warrant for her arrest and friendly cops told her that there was a $50,000 price on her head. She eventually fled to Texas. The once-untouchable Harmon was later convicted of racketeering, extortion and drug dealing.

BILL DUNCAN: An IRS investigator in Arkansas who drafted some 30 federal indictments of Arkansas figures on money laundering and other charges. Clinton biographer Roger Morris quotes a source who reviewed the evidence: "Those indictments were a real slam dunk if there ever was one." The cases were suppressed, many in the name of "national security." Duncan was never called to testify. Other IRS agents and state police disavowed Duncan and turned on him. Said one source, "Somebody outside ordered it shut down and the walls went up."

RUSSELL WELCH: An Arkansas state police detective working with Duncan. Welch developed a 35-volume, 3,000 page archive on drug and money laundering operations at Mena. His investigation was so compromised that a high state police official even let one of the targets of the probe look through the file. At one point, Welch was sprayed in the face with poison, later identified by the Center for Disease Control as anthrax. He would write in his diary, "I feel like I live in Russia, waiting for the secret police to pounce down. A government has gotten out of control. Men find themselves in positions of power and suddenly crimes become legal." Welch is no longer with the state police.

DAN SMALTZ: Smaltz did an outstanding job investigating and prosecuting charges involving illegal payoffs to Agriculture Secretary Mike Espy, yet was treated with disparaging and highly inaccurate reporting by the likes of the David Broder and the NY Times. Espy was acquitted under a law that made it necessary to not only prove that he accepted gratuities but that he did something specific in return. On the other hand, Tyson Foods copped a plea in the same case, paying $6 million in fines and serving four years' probation. The charge: that Tyson had illegally offered Espy $12,000 in airplane rides, football tickets and other payoffs. In the Espy investigation, Smaltz obtained 15 convictions and collected over $11 million in fines and civil penalties. Offenses for which convictions were obtained included false statements, concealing money from prohibited sources, illegal gratuities, illegal contributions, falsifying records, interstate transportation of stolen property, money laundering, and illegal receipt of USDA subsidies. Incidentally, Janet Reno blocked Smaltz from pursuing leads aimed at allegations of major drug trafficking in Arkansas and payoffs to the then governor of the state, WJ Clinton. Espy had become Ag secretary only after being flown to Arkansas to get the approval of chicken king Don Tyson.

DAVID SCHIPPERS, was House impeachment counsel and a Chicago Democrat. He did a highly creditable job but since he didn't fit the right-wing conspiracy theory, the Clintonista media downplayed his work. Thus most Americans don't know that he told NewsMax, "Let me tell you, if we had a chance to put on a case, I would have put live witnesses before the committee. But the House leadership, and I'm not talking about Henry Hyde, they just killed us as far as time was concerned. I begged them to let me take it into this year. Then I screamed for witnesses before the Senate. But there was nothing anybody could do to get those Senators to show any courage. They told us essentially, you're not going to get 67 votes so why are you wasting our time." Schippers also said that while a number of representatives looked at additional evidence kept under seal in a nearby House building, not a single senator did.

JOHN CLARKE: When Patrick Knowlton stopped to relieve himself in Ft. Marcy Park 70 minutes before the discovery of Vince Foster's body, he saw things that got him into deep trouble. His interview statements were falsified and prior to testifying he claims he was overtly harassed by more than a score of men in a classic witness intimidation technique. In some cases there were witnesses. John Clarke has been his dogged lawyer in the witness intimidation case that has been largely ignored by the media, even when the three-judge panel overseeing the Starr investigation permitted Knowlton to append a 20 page addendum to the Starr Report.


OTHER

THE ARKANSAS COMMITTEE: What would later be known as the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy actually began on the left - as a group of progressive students at the University of Arkansas formed the Arkansas Committee to look into Mena, drugs, money laundering, and Arkansas politics. This committee was the source of some of the important early Clinton stories including those published in the Progressive Review.

CLINTON ADMINISTRATION SCANDALS E-LIST: Moderated by Ray Heizer, this list has been subject to all the idiosyncrasies of Internet bulletin boards, but it has nonetheless proved invaluable to researchers and journalists.


JOURNALISTS

JERRY SEPER of the Washington Times was far and away the best beat reporter of the story, handling it week after week in the best tradition of investigative journalism. If other reporters had followed Seper's lead, the history of the Clintons machine might have been quite different.

AMBROSE EVANS-PRITCHARD of the London Telegraph did a remarkable job of digging into some of the seamiest tales from Arkansas and the Clinton past. Other early arrivals on the scene were Alexander Cockburn and Jeff Gerth.

CHRISTOPHER RUDDY, among other fine reports on the Clinton scandals, did the best job laying out the facts in the Vince Foster death case.

ROGER MORRIS AND SALLY DENTON wrote a major expose of events at Mena, but at the last moment the Washington Post's brass ordered the story killed. It was published by Penthouse and later included in Morris' "Partners in Power," the best biography of the Clintons.

OTHERS who helped get parts of the story out included reporters Philip Weiss, Carl Limbacher, Wes Phelan, David Bresnahan, William Sammon, Liza Myers, Mara Leveritt, Matt Drudge, Jim Ridgeway, Nat Hentoff, Michael Isikoff, Christopher Hitchens, and Michael Kelly. Also independent investigator Hugh Sprunt and former White House FBI agent Gary Aldrich.

Sam Smith of the Progressive Review wrote the first book (Shadows of Hope, University of Indiana Press, 1994) deconstructing the Clinton myth and the Review developed a major database on the topic.

The Clintons, to adapt a line from Dr. Johnson, were not only corrupt, they were the cause of corruption in others. Seldom in America have so many come to excuse so much mendacity and malfeasance as during the Clinton years. These rare exceptions cited above, and others unmentioned, deserve our deep thanks.

THE CLINTON LEGACY
The Hidden Election

USA Today calls it "the hidden election," in which nearly 7,000 state legislative seats are decided with only minimal media and public attention. The paper took brief notice because this is the year the state legislatures perform their most important national function: drawing revised congressional districts based on the most recent census.

But there's another important national story here: further evidence of the disaster that Bill Clinton has been for the Democratic Party. According to the National Conference of State Legislatures, Democrats held a 1,542 seat lead in the state bodies in 1990. As of last November that lead had shrunk to 288. That's a loss of over 1,200 state legislative seats, nearly all of them under Clinton. Across the US, the Democrats control only 65 more state senate seats than the Republicans.

Further, in 1992, the Democrats controlled 17 more state legislatures than the Republicans. After November, the Republicans control one more than the Democrats. Not only is this a loss of 9 legislatures under Clinton, but it is the first time since 1954 that the GOP has controlled more state legislatures than the Democrats (they tied in 1968).

Here's what happened to the Democrats under Clinton, based on our latest figures:

- GOP seats gained in House since Clinton became president: 48
- GOP seats gained in Senate since Clinton became president: 8
- GOP governorships gained since Clinton became president: 11
- GOP state legislative seats gained since Clinton became president: 1,254
as of 1998
- State legislatures taken over by GOP since Clinton became president: 9
- Democrat officeholders who have become Republicans since Clinton became
president: 439 as of 1998
- Republican officeholders who have become Democrats since Clinton became president: 3

NATIONAL CONF OF STATE LEGISLATURES
http://www.ncsl.org/programs/legman/elect/hstptyct.htm
http://www.ncsl.org/programs/legman/...mshare2000.htm

[FORD]

Explain this to me, Busheep....

Chimpy claims were "at war". Naturally he doesn't know exactly who the "enemy" is, nor do his insane policies such as the "Patriot Act" even bother to define such a thing, but that's beside the point.

Given his presumption that a war exists, shouldn't the BCE ensure that the best qualified people are placed in key government positions in order to ensure security and safety for American citizens?

A horse groomer was appointed to the head of FEMA, and now thousands are dead in New Orleans.

Iraq has been a failure from the moment Chimpy claimed "Mission Accomplished", largely due to Donald Rumsfeld, a pharmaceutical executive who doesn't even know how to put armor on a goddamned personnel carrier, and forces soldiers to dig scrap metal out of the trash or have their fucking parents pay for it out of their own pockets.

Now Junior has appointed not one, but two completely unqualified individuals to the formerly Supreme Court, both of whom are political hacks with experience in nothing but defending the Bush Criminal Empire.

Bush himself is unqualified for his job, having failed at every business his father bought him, previously. And now he's bankrupting the entire country and selling us out to the Chinese

How can you defend this??

[Warham]

Actually, thousands are not dead in New Orleans. I believe it's right around 927 or so.

[Guitar Shark]

How can you say that Roberts is unqualified? It is hard to imagine a more qualified candidate. If you're referring to the fact that he has a limited judicial record, I'll give you that.

[Warham]

Originally posted by Guitar Shark
How can you say that Roberts is unqualified? It is hard to imagine a more qualified candidate. If you're referring to the fact that he has a limited judicial record, I'll give you that.

FORD means he's not a card-carrying ACLU member. Therefore, not qualified.

[FORD]

Originally posted by Guitar Shark
How can you say that Roberts is unqualified? It is hard to imagine a more qualified candidate. If you're referring to the fact that he has a limited judicial record, I'll give you that.

I'll use the same analogy that Satan used yesterday. A lawyer may have extensive knowledge of the law. Hopefully they do, as the job requires it.

A referee for the NFL has extensive knowledge of the rules of professional football, but that doesn't make him a first string quarterback, and it definitely doesn't qualify him to suit up for the Super Bowl. (except in black & white stripes)

[Guitar Shark]

Originally posted by FORD
I'll use the same analogy that Satan used yesterday. A lawyer may have extensive knowledge of the law. Hopefully they do, as the job requires it.

A referee for the NFL has extensive knowledge of the rules of professional football, but that doesn't make him a first string quarterback, and it definitely doesn't qualify him to suit up for the Super Bowl. (except in black & white stripes)

That's a pretty weak analogy actually. By virtue of their training and experience, lawyers have all the skills they need to be judges. Umpires may have training and experience in the rules of professional football, but they lack an important requirement -- athleticism and talent.

I would have preferred that Bush nominate people with more extensive histories as judges, so that I'd have a better idea of how they might rule as Supreme Court justices. But it's not a requirement of the job.

[Warham]

Like I said yesterday, that's the dumbest analogy you've ever given on here.

NFL quarterbacks and NFL referees have less similarities in their jobs than lawyers and judges do, so that analogy doesn't work. In fact, there are quite a few laywers who are also NFL refs, which does make sense, but that's beside the point.

[Guitar Shark]

Originally posted by Warham
In fact, there are quite a few laywers who are also NFL refs, which does make sense, but that's beside the point.

Is that true? I didn't know that.

Look at Steve Young... he was an outstanding NFL quarterback AND a lawyer.

Sigh... is there anything lawyers CAN'T do?

[Hardrock69]

Tell the truth?

[FORD]

Rumor is that he also has 6 wives

[4moreyears]

Originally posted by Hardrock69
Which Democratic President has had an administration who was in collusion with terrorists who plowed passenger jets into skyscrapers in NYC?

Boy it is hard to think people this stupid are actually allowed to vote.

[Hardrock69]

Actually Roberts is qualified for sure. This woman who has just been nominated has been a lawyer for years, but my only problem with her is her role in scrubbing Chimp's service record and getting rewarded for it.

And why is it that as a last resort when the finger pointing begins about this party or that party, the Republican nutjobs have to drag out all this crap about Clinton...
Though he certainly is a corrupt murdering motherfucker, just like many others, Clinton never took this country to war, causing thousands of people to die based on lies....if you wanna point a finger at a fucking asshole Democrat that did it all, look back to the 60s...

Lyndon Johnson had one other reason to be in favor of the murder of JFK...he was only a couple of months away from being indicted for conspiracy to commit murder...the only way for him to avoid going down in history as the first sitting Vice-President to be indicted for that was to become President, therefore...untouchable.

He was a Democrat.

A really corrupt son of a bitch.

And where was he from?

Texas....



One thing everyone here ignores, and that I have brought up many times....

The President does not have The Power.

That power is BEHIND the Presidency.

Presidents stay in office for 4 years...8 years maximum.

So every decade we have a minimum of 2, or a maximum of 3 (that is, if none of them die in office).

However, take for example J. Edgar Hoover.

How long was he in office?

48 FUCKING YEARS!

Presidents may come and go, but the FBI and CIA and NSA and DIA liveth on forever and ever amen.

[frets5150]

Originally posted by FORD
[B]Explain this to me, Busheep....

Chimpy claims were "at war". Naturally he doesn't know exactly who the "enemy" is, nor do his insane policies such as the "Patriot Act" even bother to define such a thing, but that's beside the point.

A horse groomer was appointed to the head of FEMA, and now thousands are dead in New Orleans.

Iraq has been a failure from the moment Chimpy claimed "Mission Accomplished", largely due to Donald Rumsfeld, a pharmaceutical executive who doesn't even know how to put armor on a goddamned personnel carrier, and forces soldiers to dig scrap metal out of the trash or have their fucking parents pay for it out of their own pockets.

HAHA Good shit That should be proof enough that the BCE don't give a Rat's Ass.

[FORD]

Originally posted by 4moreyears
Boy it is hard to think people this stupid are actually allowed to vote.

Talking about yourself again?

[4moreyears]

Originally posted by FORD
Talking about yourself again?

WOW, Ford you are so smart. How did you figure that out. Is that how you got to be a mod he? What a cool trick.

[Hardrock69]

Originally posted by 4moreyears
Boy it is hard to think people this stupid are actually allowed to vote.

Yes I agree. Bush is a moron.

[FORD]

Originally posted by 4moreyears
WOW, Ford you are so smart. How did you figure that out. Is that how you got to be a mod he? What a cool trick.

Every dictatorship throughout history has been successful due to "useful idiots" like yourself. Morons who have been brainwashed into some fucked up ideology that causes them never to question even the most vile, criminal, treasonous acts, as long as they are led to believe they were done for the good of the country.

Well guess what? Not even a MORON LIKE YOU can use that excuse anymore. The BCE has ruined this country in more ways than you can imagine. The damage is so great that it may never be repaired. But in your brainwashed FAUX News existence, you can't even comprehend how far this country has fallen since December 12, 2000.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by lesfunk
...
But if you think the Liberal Democrat party is really more virtous than these neo con jackoffs. You're being played bigtime.

How about less fucking destructive?

Blowjobs versus WMD/Neo Con PNAC scams????

**sigh** The good ol' days...

[Hardrock69]

4MoreYears: "No! We are NOT at War! IT is all just a big lie concocted by the Media! Our economy is the greatest it has ever been!

President George W. Bush is a fine upstanding Christian man, who has never broken any laws, and only wants the best for everyone in this great nation of ours!

And his administration is chock full of law-abiding, Patriotic Americans who would never DREAM of taking advantage of their position in Government to enrich themselves or cause harm or neglect to come to any American! And he served his country faithfully in the Vietnam War, and did not use his family connections to avoid serving"

Give me a fucking break....

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Warham
The Clinton Legacy

The Progressive Review

This list was compiled at the end of the Clinton administration.

Our Clinton Scandal Index

But, but, but, but...Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton.......

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Guitar Shark
Is that true? I didn't know that.

Look at Steve Young... he was an outstanding NFL quarterback AND a lawyer.

Sigh... is there anything lawyers CAN'T do?

HARDROCK69 beat me to it.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Hardrock69
4MoreYears: "No! We are NOT at War! IT is all just a big lie concocted by the Media! Our economy is the greatest it has ever been!

President George W. Bush is a fine upstanding Christian man, who has never broken any laws, and only wants the best for everyone in this great nation of ours!

And his administration is chock full of law-abiding, Patriotic Americans who would never DREAM of taking advantage of their position in Government to enrich themselves or cause harm or neglect to come to any American! And he served his country faithfully in the Vietnam War, and did not use his family connections to avoid serving"

Give me a fucking break....

I hear theme music...

4moreyears' doll.

[Warham]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh

I'm trying to make sure you liberals keep a clear perspective about these sorts of things.

[Keeyth]

Originally posted by FORD


Now Junior has appointed not one, but two completely unqualified individuals to the formerly Supreme Court, both of whom are political hacks with experience in nothing but defending the Bush Criminal Empire.

Yeah this latest "Supreme" Court stuff bothers the fuck out of me too FORD, but in all reality, you have to admit that the "Supreme" Court lost any claim it had at legitimacy the day they gave GW the 2000 election, so the 'formerly Supreme' was a long time ago. This is all just icing on the cake for the BCE.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Jerry Falwell
As for all of the Crap that happened at Gitmo and Abu, those individuals who were responsible are being punished. Where does GW deserve the blame for their actions? I've heard of guilt by association, but come on... isn't this a little ridiculous.

And who appointed Rumsfeld there Jerry?

You think PA Reservists just like torturing for fun? Fuck you.

They got the strategy from Mossad and the morons under Rumsfeld used it much too widely, resulting in horrible shame and dishonor for our entire country. Fuck you again for defending gw, it's his fault because he appointed the lowlifes who did this.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Jerry Falwell
Plus, we sure didn't hurt Iraq by getting rid of Sadam as their president.

yes we did. There's a civil war now.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
yes we did. There's a civil war now.

It's not quite an all out Civil War just yet, but if we left there now it would be FULL BORE civil war within days.

And, the most important part is that the people are free to fight for their future...but that is their fight alone to endure, not ours to finish.

Iraq may be crippled, but it is healing and having the smallest of chances at being a productive free nation in the future is a lot better off than with Saddam treating it as his own personal playground with human playthings to do as he wished with.