China Blasts Satellite, USA Gets Pissy

[pflo]

WTF? Does the USA claim ownership of all space surrounding the Earth now? What the fuck is going on? If the US has a satellite hovering over my country and I dont like it, I SHOULD damn well blast it into oblivion, if I have developed the tech. AGAIN US hypocrysy at its finest. AGAIN the standard "We can defend ourselves you dont have that right" . This mentality is digging the states into a DEEP hole......Like I said before, if the US wants to tango with China, they will get ass raped. Mark my words. Careful now ,Chimpy cnn

[LoungeMachine]

No link, no story?

Lazy fucking Canuck

[LoungeMachine]

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/01/...9chinatest.php


China tests anti-satellite weapon, unnerving U.S.

By WILLIAM J. BROAD and DAVID E. SANGER Published: January 18, 2007

China successfully carried out its first test of an anti-satellite weapon last week, signaling Beijing's resolve to play a major role in military space activities and bringing expressions of concern from Washington and other capitals, the Bush administration said today.

Only two nations — Russia and the United States — have previously destroyed spacecraft in anti-satellite tests, most recently when Washington did so in the mid 1980s.

"This is the first real escalation in the weaponization of space that we've seen in 20 years," said Jonathan McDowell, a Harvard astronomer who tracks rocket launchings and space activity. "It ends a long period of restraint."

The White House said the United States and other nations had "expressed our concern regarding this action to the Chinese." Despite its protest, the Bush administration has long resisted a global treaty banning such tests because it says it needs freedom of action in space.

At a moment that China is modernizing its nuclear weapons, expanding the reach of its navy and sending astronauts into orbit for the first time, the test appears to mark a new sphere of technical and military competition. American officials complained today that China made no public or private announcements about its test, despite repeated requests by American officials for more openness about their actions.

In theory, the test means Beijing can now target American spy satellites, which orbit below an altitude of 500 miles. In its test, China launched a missile that destroyed an aging weather satellite at roughly that altitude. Experts said remnants of the destroyed Chinese satellite could threaten to damage or destroy other satellites for years or even decades to come.

Arms control experts called the test a troubling development that could foreshadow either an anti-satellite arms race or, alternatively, a diplomatic push by Beijing to force the Bush administration into negotiations on a weapons ban.

"It could be a shot across the bow," said Theresa Hitchens, director of the Center for Defense Information, a private group in Washington that tracks military programs. "For several years, the Russians and Chinese have been trying to push a treaty to ban space weapons. The concept of exhibiting a hard-power capability to bring somebody to the negotiating table is a classic cold war technique."

In late August, President Bush authorized a new national space policy that ignored calls for a global prohibition on such tests and asserted the need for American "freedom of action in space." Ms. Hitchens and other critics have accused the Bush administration of conducting secret research on advanced anti-satellite weapons using lasers, which are considered a far speedier and more destructive way of destroying satellites than the cruder weapons of two decades ago.

The White House statement, issued by the National Security Council, said China's "development and testing of such weapons is inconsistent with the spirit of cooperation that both countries aspire to in the civil space area."

An administration official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of intelligence information, said the Chinese missile launch was detected by the United States in the early evening of Jan. 11, which would have been early morning on Jan. 12 in China. American satellites tracked the launch of the medium-range ballistic missile, and later space radars saw the debris and noted that the old weather satellite had vanished.

The anti-satellite test was first reported late Wednesday on the Web site of Aviation Week and Space Technology, an industry magazine. It said intelligence agencies had yet to "complete confirmation of the test."

The Chinese test, the magazine said, appeared to employ a ground-based interceptor that used the sheer force of impact rather than an exploding warhead to shatter the satellite into a cloud of debris.

Dr. McDowell of Harvard said the satellite is known as Feng Yun, or "wind and cloud." Launched in 1999, it was the third in a series. He said that the satellite was a cube measuring 4.6 feet on a side, and that its solar panels extended some 28 feet. He added that it was due for retirement sometime soon but still appeared to be electronically alive — making it an ideal target.

"If it stops working," he said, "you know you have a successful hit."

David C. Wright, a senior scientist at the Union of Concerned Scientists, a private group in Cambridge, Mass., said he calculated that the Chinese satellite shattered into 800 fragments 4 inches wide or larger, and millions of smaller pieces.

Jianhua Li, a spokesman at the Chinese embassy in Washington, said he had heard about the anti-satellite report but had no statement or information.

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[LoungeMachine]

We will be at war with China someday.....

And it will be about oil, of course.......

[Seshmeister]

Or the US deciding not to pay the debt Bush has run up.

Most wars are about money.

The one good thing about it is that the Chinese like the Russians before them are pretty athiest.

The whole Mutually Assured Destruction of nuclear deterrance works in that mindset.

This is part of the reason that a lot of people get worried when the US keeps electing religious nuts. North Korea is a nutty pplace but again chances are ok.

It's the superstitious people you have to worry about that think being dead is a good thing.

Cheers!

[Nitro Express]

We are already at war with China. They opened up their markets to appeal to our greed. In the process they have stollen our technology, ruined our capacity to produce, and built up their economy and military at the same time.

I have known Chinese people my whole life and have been to China many times. They think long-term and what has been going on since 1980 is no accident.

When I took Calculus I and II in college, half the class were Chinese exchange students. There was no curve, because those people got 100% on all their tests. I saw the govt. encouraging the people to better themselves through economic persuits and education while keeping a tight reighn on things with the police and military.

25 years ago, I say the new giant ready to pounce and it was The People's Republic of China.

We are at war and the way things are going, they will be very tough competition if we ever do get in a shoot em up bang confrontation with them because they are buying up the world's natural resources and make everything.

I guess we can throw our social workders and lawywers at them in a mass wave attack.

[WACF]

I believe the largest invester in US dollars is China....

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by WACF
I believe the largest invester in US dollars is China....

I believe you to be correct...

[knuckleboner]

Originally posted by pflo
WTF? Does the USA claim ownership of all space surrounding the Earth now? What the fuck is going on? If the US has a satellite hovering over my country and I dont like it, I SHOULD damn well blast it into oblivion, if I have developed the tech. AGAIN US hypocrysy at its finest. AGAIN the standard "We can defend ourselves you dont have that right" . This mentality is digging the states into a DEEP hole......Like I said before, if the US wants to tango with China, they will get ass raped. Mark my words. Careful now ,Chimpy cnn

has nothing to do with the U.S. claiming ownership of space. in fact, it's quite the opposite. we claim that NO ONE has ownership of space; so a communications satellite in orbit is property that shouldn't be shot down by anybody.


however, the real reason the U.S. is lodging a protest over this is because it's a direct action towards the U.S. china's not trying to prove it can knock down malaysian satellites. it's saying to the U.S. that if a hostile incident occurs, the U.S. can't necessarily rely upon its global communications / intelligence gathering network.

we're understandably concerned, but realistically, china's understandably demonstrating their own capabilities. in a way, THIS is deterence. china is saying that any attack on it will not be so easy, so don't try.

[Seshmeister]

Protectionism doesn't work.

All the West can do is be better technically.

It's all about educating the fuck out our kids otherwise we're fucked.

[VanHalener]

Originally posted by Seshmeister

It's all about educating the fuck out of our kids otherwise we're fucked.

You said a mouthful there!

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[pflo]

Originally posted by knuckleboner
has nothing to do with the U.S. claiming ownership of space. in fact, it's quite the opposite. we claim that NO ONE has ownership of space; so a communications satellite in orbit is property that shouldn't be shot down by anybody.


however, the real reason the U.S. is lodging a protest over this is because it's a direct action towards the U.S. china's not trying to prove it can knock down malaysian satellites. it's saying to the U.S. that if a hostile incident occurs, the U.S. can't necessarily rely upon its global communications / intelligence gathering network.

we're understandably concerned, but realistically, china's understandably demonstrating their own capabilities. in a way, THIS is deterence. china is saying that any attack on it will not be so easy, so don't try.

And rightly so. Your first point is complete bollocks, though. IT WAS THEIR OWN SATELLITE!! If space is owned by no one, as you wrongly claim is the US position, do you think the US would allow other countries to position spy sats over north america like the US does over the east? i think not. Read the quote from YOUR govt - "Under a space policy authorized by President Bush in August, the United States asserts a right to "freedom of action in space" and says it will "deter others from either impeding those rights or developing capabilities intended to do so." WHAT is unclear about that? Sounds like a claim of ownership to me. "Freedom of Action"...hmmm , what exactly does "action" entail? Pretty open ended and vague. Bush sure is an arrogant little fuck...You guys need to kick that cunt out NOW.

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Protectionism doesn't work.

All the West can do is be better technically.

It's all about educating the fuck out our kids otherwise we're fucked.

I should run on that platform...

[pflo]

For nearly a half-century, the cooperative and peaceful use of space has yielded immense benefits to humans worldwide. Although space has been "militarized"—military satellites have been deployed for purposes ranging from the verification of arms control treaties to providing targeting information to military forces on Earth—it has not yet been "weaponized." Despite Cold War tensions and the technical capability to do so, no nation has deployed destructive weapons in space or destroyed the satellites of another nation.

However, this norm may be breached in the near future. The Bush administration appears to have a serious interest in anti-satellite (ASAT) weapons, and the Pentagon has announced its intention to pursue a testbed for space-based missile defenses by 2008. The testbed deployment would entail putting one or more missile-targeting interceptor satellites into orbit.

Weapons in space are likely to be politically destabilizing. They may threaten the commercial, scientific, and military use of space, all without clearly reaping their intended security benefits. The international community, notably including Russia and China, Canada, and the countries of the European Union, supports creating a treaty to ban weapons from outer space. Serious multilateral discussion about "rules of the road" for space is needed.

Which rules and norms are established is especially important for the United States, the country most reliant on space assets. The United States owns and operates the vast majority of satellites orbiting today, and space has become critical to US economic, scientific, and military interests. Though the United States and the former republics of the Soviet Union have long dominated the use of space, currently many states are investing in space assets and have developed or are developing the ability to use space peacefully.

Insight into the Bush administration’s troubling plans can be found in the January 2001 report of the Commission to Assess United States National Security Space Management and Organization, chaired by Donald Rumsfeld shortly before he became Secretary of Defense. Although the report stresses defensive space operations, it endorses also the notion of "space control" and specifically calls for anti-satellite technology, stating that "The U.S. will require means of negating satellite threats, whether temporary and reversible or physically destructive."



related links




offsite
Commission to Assess United States
National Security Space
Management and Organization

The Outer Space Treaty of 1967
A long-established norm has kept destructive weapons from being stationed in space or being used against space-based targets. The Outer Space Treaty of 1967, signed by more than 90 countries including the United States, bans weapons of mass destruction from space and stipulates that "The exploration and use of outer space…shall be carried out for the benefit and in the interests of all countries, irrespective of their degree of economic or scientific development, and shall be the province of all mankind…[and] shall be guided by the principle of co-operation and mutual assistance…"

A number of other relevant treaties and international agreements exist, but the legal framework addressing space weaponization is far from comprehensive. Continuing the peaceful use of space will require cooperation among space-faring states and refined international laws and means of dealing with conflict.

UCS's project on space weapons is intended to analyze the range of technical issues underlying the development, use, and control of space weapons, and to use this analysis to develop recommendations for US and international policy on these issues.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by pflo
And rightly so. Your first point is complete bollocks, though. IT WAS THEIR OWN SATELLITE!! If space is owned by no one, as you wrongly claim is the US position, do you think the US would allow other countries to position spy sats over north america like the US does over the east? i think not. Read the quote from YOUR govt - "Under a space policy authorized by President Bush in August, the United States asserts a right to "freedom of action in space" and says it will "deter others from either impeding those rights or developing capabilities intended to do so." WHAT is unclear about that? Sounds like a claim of ownership to me. "Freedom of Action"...hmmm , what exactly does "action" entail? Pretty open ended and vague. Bush sure is an arrogant little fuck...You guys need to kick that cunt out NOW.

Um. actually the US DOES ALLOW foreign nations to send satellites over its territory, we don't have much choice. You can Google Russian pics of "Area 51" on the interweb.

The US and former Soviet Union both signed a moratorium on anti-satellite weapons, largely because when you blow them up, debris is scattered around orbit for up to hundreds of years making space flight more difficult and hazardous.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Protectionism doesn't work.

All the West can do is be better technically.

It's all about educating the fuck out our kids otherwise we're fucked.

Well, be happy you don't live here where these religious zealot idiots will tell you with a straight face that you're wrong and science is wrong...

[knuckleboner]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Um. actually the US DOES ALLOW foreign nations to send satellites over its territory, we don't have much choice. You can Google Russian pics of "Area 51" on the interweb.

The US and former Soviet Union both signed a moratorium on anti-satellite weapons, largely because when you blow them up, debris is scattered around orbit for up to hundreds of years making space flight more difficult and hazardous.

um, yeah, pflo, what he said...



and also, the U.S. is claiming that by demonstrating the ability to destroy a satellite, the chinese are really stating that they are prepared to destroy other people's property. that's why the protest. and on its face, i think it's pretty reasonable.

on the other hand, if one wants to say that the U.S. has probably explored similar capabilities, i'd probably agree.

[Seshmeister]

The whole point of this is that if god forbid there is ever a war over Taiwan, the first thing China will do is take out the US spy satellites in the region.

[pflo]

Originally posted by knuckleboner
um, yeah, pflo, what he said...



and also, the U.S. is claiming that by demonstrating the ability to destroy a satellite, the chinese are really stating that they are prepared to destroy other people's property. that's why the protest. and on its face, i think it's pretty reasonable.

on the other hand, if one wants to say that the U.S. has probably explored similar capabilities, i'd probably agree.

Again, it was THEIR satellite....the US DID the same thing in 1985. The US policy is pure hypocrysy. period.

[pflo]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Um. actually the US DOES ALLOW foreign nations to send satellites over its territory, we don't have much choice. You can Google Russian pics of "Area 51" on the interweb.

The US and former Soviet Union both signed a moratorium on anti-satellite weapons, largely because when you blow them up, debris is scattered around orbit for up to hundreds of years making space flight more difficult and hazardous.

And WHICH country has produced over 90% of the garbage currently floating in space?? Hint - it has an inept moron running it who was voted in by delusional religious fucks and backwards inbred redneck shitsticks.BTW, a moratorium is only valid when the parties to it exist.The USSR doesnt exist...the moratorium is therefore non-existent. Um.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by knuckleboner
um, yeah, pflo, what he said...



and also, the U.S. is claiming that by demonstrating the ability to destroy a satellite, the chinese are really stating that they are prepared to destroy other people's property. that's why the protest. and on its face, i think it's pretty reasonable.

on the other hand, if one wants to say that the U.S. has probably explored similar capabilities, i'd probably agree.

We did, in the 80s. It was a missile fired from an F-15 Eagle.

The Soviets used a special satellite that was basically a giant shotgun shell.

Both superpowers decided that it was pointless because in a satellite war, both sides would be severally fucked...

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by pflo
And WHICH country has produced over 90% of the garbage currently floating in space??

Well. We know it wasn't Canada.

Hint - it has an inept moron running it who was voted in by delusional religious fucks and backwards inbred redneck shitsticks.BTW, a moratorium is only valid when the parties to it exist.The USSR doesnt exist...the moratorium is therefore non-existent. Um.

Did I say anything about a "moratorium?"

Maybe it was just unnecessary?

BTW, what was the opinion of the Canadian PM?

P.S. There is a universal declaration against the militarization of space. The Chinese just gave the US the greenlight to arm near space...

And didn't Canada just elect a Bush-clone, right wing fucknut? Who voted for him?

[pflo]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Um. actually the US DOES ALLOW foreign nations to send satellites over its territory, we don't have much choice. You can Google Russian pics of "Area 51" on the interweb.

The US and former Soviet Union both signed a MORATORIUM on anti-satellite weapons, largely because when you blow them up, debris is scattered around orbit for up to hundreds of years making space flight more difficult and hazardous.

My, you have a short memory. See that quote up there, and the word "Moratorium" in it? Thats you, Sparky! Lookit! And no, I made it a point NOT to vote for Harper.See, its one thing to be a dick driving a Prius, another to be a dick driving a Mack truck. And Canada has never been so assinine to declare that we have the right to forcefully "Impede" anyone who interferes in our "Interests" in orbit over all countries, as your fine fuckface-in-chief did last summer, which is what precisely provoked Chinas friendly reminder that the US isnt always as "number one" as it likes to think.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by pflo
My, you have a short memory. See that quote up there, and the word "Moratorium" in it? Thats you, Sparky! Lookit! And no, I made it a point NOT to vote for Harper.

Okay, but I never implied China was expected to be part of it. I was questioning why they needed to test anti-satellite weapons when both the US and Russia have long since stopped any deployments...

[pflo]

Deployments of missiles or satellites? Howbout because of bush and his recent declaration as mentioned above from last summer? It says "we will do what we want in space and if you do something to impede that we have the right to stop you". That is so fucked up. WHAT DO YOU EXPECT THE REACTION WILL BE?? See Iran, See China, See Venezuela, See Syria, etc, etc. Bush is stepping in shit he cant win.He will lose. Unwarranted brinkmanship naturally breeds resentment and hatred, and that is whats happening now from the rest of the world towards the US.Bush fucked it all up for you guys.That little cunt cant stop fucking up, can he? Bush Sr shouldve worn a condom. That declaration directly incites weaponization of space by its nature.Read it.

[VanHalener]

Originally posted by WACF
I believe the largest invester in US dollars is China....

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[pflo]

nice vid, real enlightening.Care to explain the content?

[Romeo Delight]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh


BTW, what was the opinion of the Canadian PM?

Whatever Bush told him to think.

I miss Trudeau.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
No link, no story?

Lazy fucking Canuck

Yeah, a jealous one also. Another fucking fur'ner that wishes he was born in the USA.

Let's see, the list for that is now:

Seshmeister
kentuckyfuckwad
Angel
and now pflo

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
Well, be happy you don't live here where these religious zealot idiots will tell you with a straight face that you're wrong and science is wrong...

I think you're being a little extreme.

Where does this happen?

Prove it. Can you? No.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by pflo
Deployments of missiles or satellites?

Missiles, obviously. The US never deployed the ASAT or whatever it was...

Howbout because of bush and his recent declaration as mentioned above from last summer? It says "we will do what we want in space and if you do something to impede that we have the right to stop you".

Well fuck him. The US is not deploying any weapons in space --yet.

Though there is significant research.

That is so fucked up. WHAT DO YOU EXPECT THE REACTION WILL BE?? See Iran, See China, See Venezuela, See Syria, etc, etc. Bush is stepping in shit he cant win.He will lose. Unwarranted brinkmanship naturally breeds resentment and hatred, and that is whats happening now from the rest of the world towards the US.Bush fucked it all up for you guys.That little cunt cant stop fucking up, can he? Bush Sr shouldve worn a condom. That declaration directly incites weaponization of space by its nature.Read it.

"Unwarranted brinkmanship?" How about unwarranted exaggerations? The entire world has denounced this, especially strong in Europe, including Canada I'm assuming. The Chinese have the right to conduct research, but I think anybody weaponizing space are severally mistaken. In fact, they're only going to give the Pentagon an excuse to begin deploying weapons. Bush may well be ecstatic over this...

[pflo]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Yeah, a jealous one also. Another fucking fur'ner that wishes he was born in the USA.

Let's see, the list for that is now:

Seshmeister
kentuckyfuckwad
Angel
and now pflo

Yeah, youre right. I am DYING to have a a genious like bush as my leader. I am DYING to have the rest of the world hate me and think im an arrogant fuckstick. Keep dreaming,you jingostic freak. At least I dont have to put another countries flag (read as : THE MAPLE LEAF) on my luggage when I travel, like so many yanks do now. Why do you think that is, champ?

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Fucking fur'ners that have own3d me, hard.

Let's see, the list for that is now:

Seshmeister
kentuckyfuckwad
Angel
and now pflo

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Yeah, a jealous one also. Another fucking fur'ner that wishes he was born in the USA.

Let's see, the list for that is now:

Seshmeister

Nah I would trade some extra cash for living in a free country.

Cheers!

[svrwthr]

Originally posted by pflo
nice vid, real enlightening.Care to explain the content?

That is a movie shot on either an apollo or chuttle mission, i forget, but it shows something moving in space in which some to believe is a UFO and then some say a laser shot or missile from the US in which the supposed UFO does a complete 45 degree turn backwards as it was being shot. It is not a doctored video. I believe the point of the whole video is that US had wanted a missile defense system and IMO, have one. This video dats back to late 80's early 90's.

Onto the next rant. US and other countries are pissed because they did the test and left space debris in an orbit where most all communication satellites from every country orbit. Including the ISS. There is already 80,000 pieces of space junk being watch. All this space junk is from anything from flights up or junk sat's and most not intentional. The Chinese blast was intentional and now made a bigger fucking mess in space. That is why countries are pissed. I also think some may be that they showed the capabilities of taking out a satellite from a lesser developed spcae program such as China's. If China, with their lesser knowledge can shoot out a satellite, what can America do? That really ticks off the US government. They dont like to have to open up black or X projects to public.

Last Rant of Opinion.
I think China is on the verge of invading America. Reasons;
1. The American Governement has the mentality that nobody would invade American soil. Their in deniability or as most call it having no common sense.

2. China has the number one size army consisting of 1.6 million army personnel where as America only has 477,800 and ranks sixth.

3. China is running out of resources and land space with their 1.6 billion people to Americas 300 million. America has alot of resources and land space for size. Nice place to take over.

4. China has been taking their gains from America's greed and putting it into their military. China raised it's military spending by 14%. Signs of a build up of power to do only one thing possible.

5. The test to take out a satellite would be known by all but needed to be done in order to accomplish actually taking out satellites for military puroposes. America relies on satellites for their weapons and coordinations of fighting. China still fights old school. America would lose any war without satellites.

6. off the beatin track, invade my country mother fuckers and you have to deal with one of the millions of families that own 5 guns per every man, woman and child in this family. Let alone the gang bangers that have weapons that can make you slant eyes one giant hole while slicing you in half.

[Angel]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Angel

Nick's everyone's bitch.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by pflo
At least I dont have to put another countries flag (read as : THE MAPLE LEAF) on my luggage when I travel, like so many yanks do now. Why do you think that is, champ?

I never had to do that, and I was in Europe (France and Spain) late last year.

[knuckleboner]

Originally posted by svrwthr

Last Rant of Opinion.
I think China is on the verge of invading America. Reasons;
1. The American Governement has the mentality that nobody would invade American soil. Their in deniability or as most call it having no common sense.

ok, that's just laughable. the chinese have nothing to gain from invading America. and it's not feasible. not at all. not even close.

what, the U.S. isn't going to notice 10,000 chinese ships steaming across the pacific?


as has been pointed out, this was a chinese show of force to encourage the U.S. that should a situation of potential conflict arise (taiwan) the chinese would be able to inflict some damage on any party (America) that gets directly involved.

china doesn't need to invade (because it can't. it doesn't want to.) it just needs to make the U.S. decide not to get involved in the (taiwan) conflict.

[Angel]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Nick's everyone's bitch.

No, YOU are!

How ya doin' B? I've missed our banter!!!!