What ACTUALLY happens when you go Obamacare

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  • Big Train
    Full Member Status

    • Apr 2004
    • 4013

    What ACTUALLY happens when you go Obamacare

    Hot Air » Blog Archive » Massachusetts goes for rationing? Update: Incentivizing profit over care?

    Massachusetts goes for rationing? Update: Incentivizing profit over care?

    The Massachusetts adventure in health-care reform will take an entirely predictable turn in the near future, say providers within the network. The state panel intends to dictate a narrower network of providers for some insurance plans, which providers insist will result in a reduction of services to patients in hospitals and clinics. Massachusetts wants its citizens to choose second-tier hospitals and clinics to save costs, and plans to eliminate choice as a means to that end (via Instapundit):

    The state’s ambitious plan to shake up how providers are paid could have a hidden price for patients: Controlling Massachusetts’ soaring medical costs, many health care leaders believe, may require residents to give up their nearly unlimited freedom to go to any hospital and specialist they want.
    Efforts to keep patients in a defined provider network, or direct them to lower-cost hospitals could be unpopular, especially in a state where more than 40 percent of hospital care is provided in expensive academic medical centers and where many insurance policies allow patients access to large numbers of providers.

    But a growing number of hospital officials and physician leaders warn that the new payment system proposed by a state commission would not work without restrictions on where patients receive care - an issue some providers say the commission and the Patrick administration have glossed over.

    “You can’t reap these savings without limiting patients’ choices in some way,’’ said Paul Levy, chief executive of Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center. “It’s a huge issue, it’s huge.’’ Dr. James Mongan, president of Partners HealthCare, a Beth Israel Deaconess competitor, agreed that it wouldn’t “work without some restriction on choice.’’

    Remember this every time Barack Obama and Democrats insist that we can keep our doctors and our hospitals if we like them, or that ObamaCare will not limit patient choice. The end result of state intervention and price fixing is always higher costs, followed by rationing. Insurance companies at least have competitive pressures keeping them efficient, but when prices get fixed by the state, that efficiency goes out the window. As costs escalate, the state intervenes in other ways to keep subsidies from skyrocketing, and this is the inevitable result.

    The other option is to cut payments to the premier hospitals, which will force them to take fewer patients. The result of that approach will be very easy to predict. The best hospitals will take primarily those patients who can afford to pay their premium prices, leaving the poor and middle-class patients to get treated elsewhere. It will stratify health care much more than before Massachusetts enacted its “reforms”, giving the rich almost exclusive access to the best care. And thanks to lousy compensation rates, fewer new providers will be around to meet the new demand in second-tier care, meaning much longer wait times for the poor and middle-class patients.
    This is a microcosm of what we can expect on a national basis if ObamaCare gets enacted. Will the media start reporting this in that context?
    Update: Paul Hsieh, a physician himself, notes the curious incentive being applied by Massachusetts:

    What the supporters don’t mention is that it also creates a tremendous incentive for physicians and hospitals to render as little care as possible. Under the Massachusetts proposal, if your care costs less than the annual allotment, then they keep the unused portion. If your care costs more, then the difference comes out of the providers’ pockets. Such a system thus pits your doctor’s interests against your own.

    For the sake of argument, suppose your annual allotment is $5000 and you’ve already spent $4500 for that year. Now you go to your doctor’s office complaining of a severe headache. He examines you and says, “No, Bill, you don’t need a $1000 MRI scan of your brain. Just take two Tylenol and call me in the morning”.

    Will you be 100% sure that he’s giving you unbiased medical advice?
    And even if your doctor consistently and conscientiously acts for his patients’ best interests, he will inevitably find himself at odds with hospital administrators questioning whether this or that expenditure is appropriate[.]
  • FORD
    ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

    • Jan 2004
    • 58787

    #2
    There will be no national forced corporate insurance mandate! The minute they tried that shit, there would be revolution in the streets, and it wouldn't be the fucking teabaggers who started it.
    Eat Us And Smile

    Cenk For America 2024!!

    Justice Democrats


    "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

    Comment

    • Nickdfresh
      SUPER MODERATOR

      • Oct 2004
      • 49205

      #3
      Dude, what's with the constant stream of op-ed blogspam filled with the bullshit facts?

      This isn't a mirror for Hotair/Townhall.com, etc.

      Comment

      • Big Train
        Full Member Status

        • Apr 2004
        • 4013

        #4
        Sorry Dude...I'll make sure I get everything approved by you in advance from now on. Or just respond to your threads...whatever will keep you happy.

        And just for my clarification (so I can see your point of view and then get relevant articles on current issues from your preapproved sources), what bullshit facts were in this "spam" exactly and specifically?
        Last edited by Big Train; 10-12-2009, 07:01 PM.

        Comment

        • FORD
          ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

          • Jan 2004
          • 58787

          #5
          Well, the idea that Romneycare has anything to do with the bill Obama will sign, that's certainly BULLSHIT.
          Eat Us And Smile

          Cenk For America 2024!!

          Justice Democrats


          "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

          Comment

          • Nickdfresh
            SUPER MODERATOR

            • Oct 2004
            • 49205

            #6
            Originally posted by Big Train
            Sorry Dude...I'll make sure I get everything approved by you in advance from now on. Or just respond to your threads...whatever will keep you happy.
            ...
            Thank you in advance...

            Comment

            • Big Train
              Full Member Status

              • Apr 2004
              • 4013

              #7
              Originally posted by FORD
              Well, the idea that Romneycare has anything to do with the bill Obama will sign, that's certainly BULLSHIT.
              I don't expect you to get the satire of the title...it's the overarching THEME of what happens when government gets overly involved in healthcare.

              Comment

              • Big Train
                Full Member Status

                • Apr 2004
                • 4013

                #8
                Originally posted by Nickdfresh
                Thank you in advance...
                Kindly in return, please provide all of us a list that won't enrage the mod gods...

                An exact and specific list of approved news sources that are considered "legit" in your educated eyes, would be most appreciated.

                Comment

                • Guitar Shark
                  ROTH ARMY SUPREME
                  • Jan 2004
                  • 7579

                  #9
                  Blogs are the answer for stupid people who want to seem smart.
                  ROTH ARMY MILITIA


                  Originally posted by EAT MY ASSHOLE
                  Sharky sometimes needs things spelled out for him in explicit, specific detail. I used to think it was a lawyer thing, but over time it became more and more evident that he's merely someone's idiot twin.

                  Comment

                  • FORD
                    ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

                    • Jan 2004
                    • 58787

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Big Train
                    I don't expect you to get the satire of the title...it's the overarching THEME of what happens when government gets overly involved in healthcare.
                    What happens when government gets involved in healthcare?

                    I'll let one of our foreign correspondents handle that one. Or one of our veterans, who can tell you about the "socialized" VA system.

                    I've seen what happens when insurance corporations get involved in health care, and THAT is the problem we have in this country.
                    Eat Us And Smile

                    Cenk For America 2024!!

                    Justice Democrats


                    "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

                    Comment

                    • Big Train
                      Full Member Status

                      • Apr 2004
                      • 4013

                      #11
                      The ins. companies wouldn't have this level of involvement in MA if the GOVERNMENT hadn't mandated it so.

                      Comment

                      • letsrock
                        Veteran
                        • Mar 2007
                        • 1595

                        #12
                        Originally posted by FORD
                        What happens when government gets involved in healthcare?

                        I'll let one of our foreign correspondents handle that one. Or one of our veterans, who can tell you about the "socialized" VA system.

                        I've seen what happens when insurance corporations get involved in health care, and THAT is the problem we have in this country.
                        Right if your a Vet in Ohio and the VA see's that you have kidney stones they will use a lazer on them. But if you have a bunch like me that havent come loose yet, they will do the water shock thing to crush them. But the problem is that the nearest VA facility is in Wisconsin, that has the machine.

                        Do the math.

                        Comment

                        • standin
                          Veteran
                          • Apr 2009
                          • 2274

                          #13
                          Letsrock,
                          I am not sure what math you mean, the mileage to Wisconsin? But going to where the medicine is SOP. Even St Jude and Ronald McDonald House asks people to go to where the medicine is.

                          I was asked to go to the mayo clinic in Jacksonville. And I am just miles from MCG. I choose to tough it out here. It was my choice to go to the Mayo or not. Did my doctor throw a pouting secession? Yea, he did. Would my care had gone faster at the Mayo? Maybe. But, I didn't want to move or travel regularly to the Mayo. I might not have gotten Mayo level care, but we worked it out here OK enough. Presently, I drive an hour and a half to my blood doctor.
                          You got to go where the doctors and machines are. They don't come to you.
                          To put it simply, we need to worry a lot less about how to communicate our actions and much more about what our actions communicate.
                          MICHAEL G. MULLEN

                          Comment

                          • letsrock
                            Veteran
                            • Mar 2007
                            • 1595

                            #14
                            Why doesnt the VA contract with the Cleveland Clinic or or health care centers.
                            Or someone in another city that has the same problem needing a machine. If you do the math of a roundtrip airfare and all the costs to fly vets around its a ridiculous waste of money.

                            It is your taxes after all.

                            Comment

                            • Nickdfresh
                              SUPER MODERATOR

                              • Oct 2004
                              • 49205

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Big Train
                              Kindly in return, please provide all of us a list that won't enrage the mod gods...
                              I'm not "enraged," nor have I ever said you can or can't post something. And capitalize "God" when you refer to me as it.

                              An exact and specific list of approved news sources that are considered "legit" in your educated eyes, would be most appreciated.
                              Nothing is infallible and anything is open to question. But, the very tone of your question shows how fucked up the internet has made things and possibly retarded society.

                              My only point is to acknowledge the difference between news and partisan propaganda editorials...

                              Comment

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