This will work out well.

[bueno bob]

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/bas..._mcdonalds.php

If you're Hispanic in Maricopa County, Sheriff Joe's goons have probable cause to arrest you on suspicion of being undocumented. Hey, they can always release you later.

That's the word from the elephant's mouth after an MCSO raid on four area McDonald's yesterday that netted an American citizen, Viridiana Ramirez, who was cuffed and held for four hours as she pleaded with MCSO thugs that she was born in this country and could prove it.

What was Arpaio's response to the news that his Kris Kobach-trained deputies has violated the civil rights of a single mother and terrorized her no end?

"That's just normal police work, " he shrugged in a news conference following the raid. "Sometimes you do have probable cause, you do take people in for questioning, and they're released."

So it's arrest 'em if they're brown first, and sort 'em out later. False arrest and imprisonment be damned.

Perhaps the U.S. Department of Justice and the FBI should follow Arpaio's way of doing things. There's probable cause enough out there that Arpaio's deprived others of their civil rights and done so under the color of law.

So arrest him, and sort out the details later.

And when he whines about it, play a video of Arpaio's statement above. Just do so when I'm around so I can watch the look on his flaccid face.

Never has this county been so in need of federal intervention as it is now. Where are the feds? The DOJ's Civil Rights Division has been probing the MCSO for over a year. What is Attorney General Eric Holder waiting for, a gold-trimmed invitation to act?

U.S. Attorney Dennis Burke has a grand jury ongoing, investigating Arpaio's alleged criminal misdeeds. The same question goes for those involved in that inquiry.

How many more innocent people have to be arrested? How many more cases of racial profiling do there have to be?

How many women will have their jaws busted and their arms broken, as has been the case for immigrant women held in Arpaio's jails?

It's not just women, of course. Last year Julio Mora, an American citizen, and his legal resident father were cuffed and held for three hours during the MCSO's violent immigration raid on Handyman Maintenance Inc., a county vendor.

Mora and his dad are now suing Sheriff Joe and the county. Ms. Ramirez should do the same, and extract her financial pound of flesh for Arpaio's misdeeds.

Arpaio acts as if he and his beige-shirts are above the law. They should not be. It's time for the feds to finally lay it down.

We're all tired of waiting. Tired of the excuses and dithering. Weary of watching yet another mother weep because of the way she was treated by Arpaio's roughneck Hispanic-hunters.

[FORD]

[PETE'S BROTHER]

so how would anyone against this law, propose to fix the problem?

[FORD]

so how would anyone against this law, propose to fix the problem?

1)Legalize drugs

2)Prosecute employers who hire undocumented aliens

3)Get that racist piece of shit Arpaio out of office by any means necessary

[PETE'S BROTHER]

1)Legalize drugs

2)Prosecute employers who hire undocumented aliens

3)Get that racist piece of shit Arpaio out of office by any means necessary

1. could not agree more, marijuana specifically.

2. when they are raided, by the sheriffs office, the media and community are outraged by this PERSECUTION.

3. pick anybody to fill joe's spot, anybody, should they too be forced to not uphold the law?

how do these three points stop illegal immigrants, of all shapes, sizes, colors, and ethnicities, from crossing our border without fear?

[Mushroom]

This raid was a result of illegals using stolen identity, not the result of the new AZ law. Using a stolen identity is a crime. I know I know, the sheriff's dept. might have used unecessary force. I don't have the perfect solution, because there is no perfect solution when somebody is using a stolen identity... this can wreck the lives of innocent people... credit score, credit card debt.

[hambon4lif]

2)Prosecute employers who hire undocumented aliens

While I completely agree with this, it raises an even better question....

How would you propose to fix the problem...of 'undocumented aliens'?

[FORD]

Any "illegal alien" crossing the border is doing so to make money. Some are looking for work, some are already working (i.e. smuggling drugs) If there is no longer a black market for either labor or drugs, this incentive would be gone.

[Mushroom]

2)Prosecute employers who hire undocumented aliens

sometimes the employers don't know. the prospective employee brings in his SSN and everything is cool.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

This raid was a result of illegals using stolen identity, not the result of the new AZ law. Using a stolen identity is a crime. I know I know, the sheriff's dept. might have used unecessary force. I don't have the perfect solution, because there is no perfect solution when somebody is using a stolen identity... this can wreck the lives of innocent people... credit score, credit card debt.

yes, the criminals, with stolen i.d. make it horrible for the legal latinos and dutch and malaysian folks, who get held for hours while verifying their legal staus. how can it be the law enforcement's fault?

[FORD]

*hiccup*

[FORD]

This raid was a result of illegals using stolen identity, not the result of the new AZ law. Using a stolen identity is a crime. I know I know, the sheriff's dept. might have used unecessary force. I don't have the perfect solution, because there is no perfect solution when somebody is using a stolen identity... this can wreck the lives of innocent people... credit score, credit card debt.

Separate issue. I don't see a lot of border jumpers carrying laptops and spending all day (like GAyR) sitting in libraries or coffee houses with wi-fi. I don't think they're behind the identity theft.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

Any "illegal alien" crossing the border is doing so to make money. Some are looking for work, some are already working (i.e. smuggling drugs) If there is no longer a black market for either labor or drugs, this incentive would be gone.

for the honest hard working immigrant looking to make money, yes the flow would slow. for the smuggler, yes, the flow would slow. for the thug fuckfaced gangbangin' piece-o-shite, that only wants to cause mayhem and prey on others, they would continue to come. for the elderly that come to live with their legal family and get better health care, they would continue to come.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

Separate issue. I don't see a lot of border jumpers carrying laptops and spending all day (like GAyR) sitting in libraries or coffee houses with wi-fi. I don't think they're behind the identity theft.

the jumpers buy the i.d. from the coyotes and other crooked fucks that are sittin' on their laptop at starbuck's rapin' the illegals from every direction.

[Mushroom]

Separate issue. I don't see a lot of border jumpers carrying laptops and spending all day (like GAyR) sitting in libraries or coffee houses with wi-fi. I don't think they're behind the identity theft.

How can it be a separate issue? A majority of illegals are knowingly using stolen identity.

[sadaist]

Viridiana Ramirez, who was cuffed and held for four hours...

... violated the civil rights of a single mother and terrorized her no end

No end? It ended after 4 hours. Terrorized? She was detained, questioned and released. Doesn't sound very terrifying. Yeah it sucks, but that's what happens. If you are at a drug house and it gets raided, you are going to be held & questioned until the police sort out who's who. If you work with a bunch of illegal immigrants and the place gets raided, same thing.

"Terrorized her to no end"...Exaggerate much? I just love how the liberal hopenchangers write such colorful stories.

There will always be times when innocent people are detained & questioned while police sort shit out. As long as the innocents are being released after only a few short hours, people need to pull their panties out from their crack.

Last year Julio Mora, an American citizen, and his legal resident father were cuffed and held for three hours.

Mora and his dad are now suing Sheriff Joe and the county. Ms. Ramirez should do the same, and extract her financial pound of flesh for Arpaio's misdeeds.

Fucking ridiculous.

In 7th grade someone stole a silver pen from the teacher. The entire class had to stay after school and no one could leave the room until the pen was returned. I should sue.

[hambon4lif]

How can it be a separate issue? A majority of illegals are knowingly using stolen identity.

Este es uno de muchos ejemplos....

http://www.dcourier.com/Main.asp?Sec...rticleID=80661

[Blackflag]

No end? If you are at a drug house and it gets raided, you are going to be held & questioned until the police sort out who's who.

[bueno bob]

No end? It ended after 4 hours. Terrorized? She was detained, questioned and released. Doesn't sound very terrifying. Yeah it sucks, but that's what happens.

Are you familiar with the sort of treatment potential illegals (legitimately suspected OR NOT) get down there? I assume you're not - consider yourself lucky because it IS terrifying. And four hours can, in fact, seem like an eternity.

How on Earth does it take FOUR HOURS to establish whether or not somebody is a legitimate citizen of the U.S., anyway? I can do it in about three minutes.

If you are at a drug house and it gets raided, you are going to be held & questioned until the police sort out who's who.

Odds are strong that you're not going anywhere in that scenario.

If you work with a bunch of illegal immigrants and the place gets raided, same thing.

Oh, trust me...if you're white, I'm guessing they'll probably assume your legal. Of course, if you're employing illegals, then yeah, maybe the same rules will apply. Working alongside and not in a management/ownership position? Riiiiiiiiight....

"Terrorized her to no end"...Exaggerate much? I just love how the liberal hopenchangers write such colorful stories.

Why does it have to be a "liberal hopenchanger" issue at all? Why does it have to be a partisan issue at all? I know you'd LOVE to crucify Obama and/or progressives for any reason whatsoever, but the fact remains that this is a sign of things that are going to be coming REALLY soon.

There will always be times when innocent people are detained & questioned while police sort shit out.

Nothing particularly wrong with that, unless you're making assumptions based on skin color. I wonder how many white people in the general vicinity were detained for four hours until things were "sorted out"?

As long as the innocents are being released after only a few short hours, people need to pull their panties out from their crack.

For some strange reason, I get the feeling that this is a "shoe on the other foot" sort of situation.

In 7th grade someone stole a silver pen from the teacher. The entire class had to stay after school and no one could leave the room until the pen was returned. I should sue.

Or you could just as easily make the claim that Nicole Simpson's family shouldn't have sued OJ for wrongful death after the legal system failed because you didn't sue Bic the last time you cut yourself shaving. Oh yeah, TOTALLY an on-par parallel there.

[sadaist]

How on Earth does it take FOUR HOURS to establish whether or not somebody is a legitimate citizen of the U.S., anyway? I can do it in about three minutes.

So, for guy #2 you are at 6 minutes? What about guy #10? Now we are up to 30 minutes. What about travel time and gathering everyone up? Another 30 minutes? So now we are at 1 hour. And that is assuming every person in line ahead of you are cooperating at 100%.

the fact remains that this is a sign of things that are going to be coming REALLY soon.

Terrific! It's about fucking time. It's just a shame that our country refuses to attempt to fix our problems until they reach a boiling point and no other choice remains.

Or you could just as easily make the claim that Nicole Simpson's family shouldn't have sued OJ for wrongful death after the legal system failed because you didn't sue Bic the last time you cut yourself shaving. Oh yeah, TOTALLY an on-par parallel there.

I compared being detained in a group until innocence or guilt was determined. You compare a shaving cut to chopping off someones head? Quite the stretch. You really don't have any common sense or objectivity, do you? Just because you think something is happening doesn't make it so.

[Jagermeister]

I use to travel to Douglas, AZ quite a bit. Honetly most of the time they just put them on a bus drive them back into Mexico and let them go. Right next to the the damn border. They get caught all the time and it's no big deal. Now if they think your a drug dealer god help you. They will take your damn car apart right at the border while you stand and watch. It's a fuckin trip.

[MAX]

I use to travel to Douglas, AZ quite a bit. Honetly most of the time they just put them on a bus drive them back into Mexico and let them go. Right next to the the damn border. They get caught all the time and it's no big deal. Now if they think your a drug dealer god help you. They will take your damn car apart right at the border while you stand and watch. It's a fuckin trip.

Hey fuckfACE, how much was the bus fare to AZ? Was there a good, all you can eat burger joint or something that motivated such a venture for such a man of your advanced weight? They charge you for one seat or two? Just curious?

[bueno bob]

So, for guy #2 you are at 6 minutes? What about guy #10? Now we are up to 30 minutes. What about travel time and gathering everyone up? Another 30 minutes? So now we are at 1 hour. And that is assuming every person in line ahead of you are cooperating at 100%.

That logic only works if I'm working ALONE. Isn't there a police force at work here? Four hours must mean they're staffed by retards.

Terrific! It's about fucking time.

Says the guy who'll never have to worry about BEING detained.

"Hell, if it doesn't bother me, it's not a bother!"

Jesus loves ya, bro.

It's just a shame that our country refuses to attempt to fix our problems until they reach a boiling point and no other choice remains.

Escaping the fact that there ARE in fact other choices...

I compared being detained in a group until innocence or guilt was determined. You compare a shaving cut to chopping off someones head? Quite the stretch.

You compared being held by your grade school teacher to being held for four hours on suspicion of illegal status here in the U.S. What, you all of a sudden don't like your own argument? You made the stretch. I showed you the stretch for what it is. Why blame me for it unless you know you don't have an argument?

You really don't have any common sense or objectivity, do you?

Says the guy who compares staying after school because of a stolen pen to being held under suspicion for 4 hours by aggressive police....

[Mushroom]

Escaping the fact that there ARE in fact other choices...

we have a process for legalization, but it obviously doesn't stop illegal immigration now. explain other choices, rather than automatic amnesty for 12,000,000 illegals. some who are using stolen identities. some who are criminals from other countries. and then, after amnesty for those 12,000,000, what about the next wave - do they get automatic amnesty? what about the foreigners waiting for immigrant visas who are already in the system - automatic approval, or do they get tossed aside temporarily, given secondary status to illegals already here? do the illegals immediately join the Green Card Lottery, right next to the guy who's been waiting for years?

a lot of questions to resolve. what's your proposal?

[bueno bob]

we have a process for legalization, but it obviously doesn't stop illegal immigration now. explain other choices, rather than automatic amnesty for 12,000,000 illegals.

For one, I never suggested automatic amnesty for 12,000,000 illegals. For two, I think Ford outlined some fairly viable alternatives that could be taken. Myself, I'd like to see a hand extended for native Americans (you know, the REAL owners of this country?) to assist more with border patrol because almost all of them are begging for work and living off of less than $100.00 a month in government assistance because they have NO employment opportunities.

But I guess that means job creation on a local level. Why do that when it's pigeonhole by skin color?

[hambon4lif]

we have a process for legalization, but it obviously doesn't stop illegal immigration now. explain other choices, rather than automatic amnesty for 12,000,000 illegals. some who are using stolen identities. some who are criminals from other countries. and then, after amnesty for those 12,000,000, what about the next wave - do they get automatic amnesty? what about the foreigners waiting for immigrant visas who are already in the system - automatic approval, or do they get tossed aside temporarily, given secondary status to illegals already here? do the illegals immediately join the Green Card Lottery, right next to the guy who's been waiting for years?

a lot of questions to resolve. what's your proposal?

LOL!

I personally, would like to wish you all the luck in the world in getting a straight answer to that question (I already tried-post #7).....especially from this bunch, who seem to be hellbent on blaming everybody and everything else for the current situation in Arizona other than the Federal Government, who spent all this time cross-eyed with their thumbs up their ass...forcing the State to take matters into their own hands.

Once again, good luck!

[Blackflag]

we have a process for legalization, but it obviously doesn't stop illegal immigration now. explain other choices, rather than automatic amnesty for 12,000,000 illegals. some who are using stolen identities. some who are criminals from other countries. and then, after amnesty for those 12,000,000, what about the next wave - do they get automatic amnesty? what about the foreigners waiting for immigrant visas who are already in the system - automatic approval, or do they get tossed aside temporarily, given secondary status to illegals already here? do the illegals immediately join the Green Card Lottery, right next to the guy who's been waiting for years?

a lot of questions to resolve. what's your proposal?

You're obviously a racist.

[bueno bob]

LOL!

I personally, would like to wish you all the luck in the world in getting a straight answer to that question (I already tried-post #7).....especially from this bunch, who seem to be hellbent on blaming everybody and everything else for the current situation in Arizona other than the Federal Government, who spent all this time cross-eyed with their thumbs up their ass...forcing the State to take matters into their own hands.

Once again, good luck!

Maybe you should google the phrase "SCROLL UP", because there's been a few very straight answers to those questions already provided. Unless you have any whiz-bang answers as to why job creation at a local level is a worse solution than, oh, racial profiling.

You wanna take the time to explain WHY the border patrol SHOULDN'T get the help it needs? Or would you rather just sit back and call this the "only solution" because the BETTER solutions are just too darn hard?

Hey, while we're on the topic, has Arizona actually started recognizing Martin Luther King day yet?

[Blackflag]

Saying you want to hire more border patrol agents (which is not job creation at the local level) doesn't have anything to do with his questions.

And the border patrol is constantly hiring, if an Indian or anybody else wants a job with them.

[bueno bob]

Local job creation is unclear then. Well, how about this? Instead of actually paying people for running assist with the border patrol (which is what I'm suggesting), we just pass a bill enforcing every white person in Arizona to run a mandatory three weekends a month for one year doing border patrol?

Nothing wrong with a do it yourself spirit - that's the American way!

[hambon4lif]

Maybe you should google the phrase "SCROLL UP", because there's been a few very straight answers to those questions already provided. Unless you have any whiz-bang answers as to why job creation at a local level is a worse solution than, oh, racial profiling.

You wanna take the time to explain WHY the border patrol SHOULDN'T get the help it needs? Or would you rather just sit back and call this the "only solution" because the BETTER solutions are just too darn hard?

Hey, while we're on the topic, has Arizona actually started recognizing Martin Luther King day yet?

Don't try to pull that bullshit on me, homeboy! I'm not a noob! You better axe somebody!

For one thing, this is hardly a new issue we're dealing with here. Immigration Reform has been going on for what seems like forever....and alot of time has passed, elections have come and gone....and we've even elected people into office based on their promises that they were going to do something about it....and what have they delivered?...not a goddamned thing!
Meanwhile, day by day, more immigrants cross the border, refusing or completely avoiding the entire process of how they can be here legally. The cases of stolen Social Security #'s (of legitimate Americans, mind you) are at an alarming rate. Enough for somebody to put their foot down, apparently!
We've reached a point where enough is enough!..the Federal Government has absolutely failed in coming up with any answers or solutions whatsoever, so what you have here, is a case of one state, who deals with this on a daily basis, to handle things on their own.

I have to ask you...as one American to another......how long can this go on?

Ultimately, this ends up being a good thing. Because as you very well know, this is just a law, and if history has taught you anything, it has taught you that laws can be changed and/or altered (and in some cases, ignored entirely!....No one reaches for the Constitution, or even refers to it, unless something flies in their face and interrupts their personal agenda).
Anyways, a radical move like Arizonas only forces the government to quit jacking off and get in their think-tanks, and come up with a more intelligent and cohesive law that makes more sense to EVERYONE.....something they should've been doing in the first fucking place!!

Don't ever try that "slight of hand" bullshit with me ever again, pal!

[lesfunk]

Land mines all along the U.S. / Mexico border. Problem solved.

[bueno bob]

Don't try to pull that bullshit on me, homeboy!

I'll pull anything I like on you, dweeb. And you'll consider yourself lucky that you're getting that much, because I'm usually far too elite to cater to your lower ilk.

I'm not a noob! You better axe somebody!

I'd care less either way, actually.

For one thing, this is hardly a new issue we're dealing with here.

True.

Immigration Reform has been going on for what seems like forever....and alot of time has passed, elections have come and gone....and we've even elected people into office based on their promises that they were going to do something about it....and what have they delivered?...not a goddamned thing!

So the obviously logical solution is widespread racial profiling and carding people for infractions no greater than jaywalking? OK...

Meanwhile, day by day, more immigrants cross the border, refusing or completely avoiding the entire process of how they can be here legally. The cases of stolen Social Security #'s (of legitimate Americans, mind you) are at an alarming rate. Enough for somebody to put their foot down, apparently!

So everybody can go out and patrol the border, then. Well, as long as they're white, because they're obviously citizens of the U.S.

We've reached a point where enough is enough!..the Federal Government has absolutely failed in coming up with any answers or solutions whatsoever, so what you have here, is a case of one state, who deals with this on a daily basis, to handle things on their own.

You call it handling things...I call it making a bad problem worse through Gestapo-like tactics.

I have to ask you...as one American to another......how long can this go on?

Until the marijuana trade is legalized (which WILL cut down on a high volume of illegal traffic, not only in Arizona but elsewhere) and until normal citizens want to volunteer their own time and energy to protect their own borders rather than letting the government take actions like this.

Ultimately, this ends up being a good thing.

LMAO

Because as you very well know, this is just a law,

Bullshit.

and if history has taught you anything, it has taught you that laws can be changed and/or altered (and in some cases, ignored entirely!....No one reaches for the Constitution, or even refers to it, unless something flies in their face and interrupts their personal agenda).

We can all hope this is a bright, shining example of "ignored entirely".

Anyways, a radical move like Arizonas only forces the government to quit jacking off and get in their think-tanks, and come up with a more intelligent and cohesive law that makes more sense to EVERYONE.....

Well, considering the uproar on both sides of the fence, saying it makes sense to EVERYONE is a bit of a misleading statement. This is obviously a hot issue on both sides, don't you think?

Don't ever try that "slight of hand" bullshit with me ever again, pal!

LOL. The next time you think you're "intimidating" is the time you'll be laying on the cement looking up at my internet message board boot over your head.

[bueno bob]

Land mines all along the U.S. / Mexico border. Problem solved.

I'm sure a few Native Americans figure a bullet in your eye socket would be a problem solved as well.

[lesfunk]

I'm sure you are alone in that opinion

[bueno bob]

I'm sure you are alone in that opinion

Trust me, I'm not; I've met more than a few VERY hostile native Americans towards whites in general. Difference is, they don't go out and lay landmines or start shooting because you're on THEIR land.

[hambon4lif]

I'll pull anything I like on you, dweeb. And you'll consider yourself lucky that you're getting that much, because I'm usually far too elite to cater to your lower ilk.
LOL. The next time you think you're "intimidating" is the time you'll be laying on the cement looking up at my internet message board boot over your head.

Lol!

Damn, princess.....did you misconstrue my post as "intimidation"? Really? Awwww!
And to think.....I was just digging for the truth.
If I hurt your feelings in any way, I won't apoligize, but I do suggest you take a better look in the mirror and ask yourself if the internet hasn't warped your mind in any way. If you came to the conclusion that you've deluded yourself into thinking you're a real BADASS, or that you've faced the fact that you're a flaming homo, neither one would come as a surprise to me.....at all!
In fact, I find you one of the most delusional assholes I've ever encountered on the internet, which says alot, because I've been doing this for quite awhile now...

At no point during your retort or rebuttal to my post, did you manage to give a straight answer to any of the questions I've asked.....which does nothing but prove my point....and that the defense can rest. The very least the defense has to worry about is an "internet message board boot over their head". LMFAO! You are nothing but a make-believe delusional motherfucker!

Thanks for the laughs......for reals, yo!

[FORD]

Yeah, I've seen my share of dirty looks at pow-wows and sweat lodges over the years. But that goes away when they get to know me, and realize I'm not there as a "white boy tourist" (or whatever) but rather someone whose way of looking at this planet was similar to theirs before I ever knew anything about their beliefs and traditions.

And I still love this shirt......

[Blackflag]

Oh, brother.

[FORD]

Pibbles, you should drive down to White Swan for the Yakama Nation's pow wow. Who knows, you might learn something?