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Thread: Egypt, Yemen, Tunisia,

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    Egypt, Yemen, Tunisia,

    I’m shocked to see there is no thread about all the protests and uprisings going on in the Middle East right now. Tunisia, Yemen, Egypt, Jordan, not to mention the rest... please don’t.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-uprising.html

    Nevertheless it appears things are happening rapidly in the last few weeks that could lead to rapid changes with unforeseen consequences. Who’s next in power? More extreme, hard-line regimes, democratically voted but more secular, or by military takeover? Or more moderate representative democracies? I just can’t visualize moderate representative democracies. That might work in developed areas, but tribal areas? ALl I know is right now I’m impressed with images found on the internet news sites. I rarely watch TV and I have yet to see anything on TV about it.

    Whatever it is, I wish we stay the fuck out of it and let the dust settle by itself. Is that possible? Fuck, you know what’s going to happen. The US will get involved somehow, and that never works out.




    And check this guy out... I’m sure he was coming here for a peaceful retirement

    Controversial Muslim cleric caught being smuggled into U.S. over Mexico border


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...co-border.html


    Said Jaziri, who called for the death of a Danish cartoonist that drew pictures of the prophet Mohammed, was being smuggled into California when he was arrested, along with his driver Kenneth Robert Lawler.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1CO90egFJ
    Last edited by Mushroom; 01-28-2011 at 09:44 PM.

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    It looks like the good old Islamic Brotherhood is stirring the shit.

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    Trolls take heed...LOG OUT & FUCK OFF!!!

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    Great...... World War III is about to start and millions will die. There goes Hell's budget for the next 10 years.
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    Maybe we have turned this realm into hell already.

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    I've been meaning to post about Egypt but never got around to it......suspending the internet! WTF, and it looks like there may be change on the horizon. Fuck that 2 bit dictator.
    Quote Originally Posted by vandeleur View Post
    E- Jesus . Playing both sides because he didnt understand the argument in the first place

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro Express View Post
    It looks like the good old Islamic Brotherhood is stirring the shit.
    Nope. It was kids on the internetz that started it. Probably university students and the many, underemployed disaffected masses. The Islamic Brotherhood has been left behind...

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    World War I = Belt fed machine guns, aircraft bombing, aircraft strafing, aircraft dogfighting, chemical warfare, and trench warfare.

    World War II = Mobile infantry, airborne troops, tanks, amphibious landings, blitzkrieg tactics, first assault rifles used, first nukes used.

    World War III = Intercontinental ballistic missiles, multiple individually targeted warheads, multi megaton payload.

    World War IV = Sticks and stones.

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    The Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt’s largest opposition movement, demanded on Wednesday that Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak dissolve the nation’s freshly formed parliament and hold a new election. The move is widely viewed as an attempt by the Muslim Brotherhood to capitalize on the thirst for change kindled by Tunisia’s recent Jasmine Revolution.

    The Brotherhood also urged Cairo to prosecute corrupt policymakers and to repeal a law banning political rallies. Additionally, the Islamist group demanded constitutional changes to curb election rigging, following November’s elections when the Brotherhood lost all 88 of its parliamentary seats.

    In a statement on its website the Brotherhood threatened that if the Egyptian government “does not move fast and shoulder responsibility to start a serious reform process, stability might not last for long.”

    Demands and warnings of this kind from the Brotherhood are nothing new, but the most recent calls are timed to harness the momentum unleashed by the upheaval in Tunisia which deposed the nation’s dictator and sent ripples of revolutionary hope into opposition groups throughout the Middle East.

    “The events in Tunisia are a cornerstone for the rest of the people of the Arab and Islamic world,” the Brotherhood wrote. “It is a message to all the despotic leaders and the corrupt regimes that they are not safe and they are living on the tip of a volcano of people’s anger and God’s wrath.”

    Although some analysts have downplayed fears that the turmoil in Tunisia will spread into neighboring nations, the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood’s complaints parallel those that culminated in the toppling of Tunisia’s president, and, in the last two weeks, nine Egyptian protesters have either set themselves on fire or tried to, in imitation of the self-immolation that ignited the uprising in Tunisia. And since Egypt suffers from the same symptoms—high youth unemployment, rising food prices, high inflation, a lack of political freedom, unapologetic corruption and nepotism—that afflicted Tunisia, the contagion possibility should not be ignored.

    The Trumpet’s editor in chief has predicted for over a decade that Egypt will fall under the influence of Islamists. In his booklet The King of the South, Gerald Flurry stated, “Daniel 11:42 implies that Egypt will be allied with the king of the south, or Iran. This prophecy indicates that there would be a far-reaching change in Egyptian politics!”

    For years the Mubarak regime has held this change at bay, but, as discontent with the political system in Egypt increases, we will see the voice of the Islamists intensify. Egypt’s leadership will undergo a change, and probably sooner than most analysts expect. •
    The largest organized opposition movement in Egypt is the Muslim Brotherhood.

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    It might be noted the internet and cell phone networks were shut down in Egypt. Great organizing tools until the government pulls the plug.

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    egypt updates it's facebook status to 'it's complicated'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwame k View Post
    .....suspending the internet! WTF

    Egypt has been E-Gypped.





















    sorry...couldn't help myself
    “Great losses often bring only a numb shock. To truly plunge a victim into misery, you must overwhelm him with many small sufferings.”

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    very good!

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    King Fahd is probably quaking in his boots right now in Saudi Arabia. If the Saudis go nuts, then that is going to be it.

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    apparently oil is pretty cheap at the moment, too. d'oh!

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    I lived in Israel in 1987 doing a study abroad thing in college. Things were pretty calm then. We used to go into Egypt and stay at a great beach resort in Al Arish. We tried to get into Saudi Arabia because they have some world class scuba diving along the Red Sea. Impossible to get a visa. Not much going on between the Jews and Palistinians then either. I had the feeling then I better see what I want to see because the middle east can go off at any time.

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    To be honest.....it is not for us to decide.

    I have a roomate that is ex navy seal....


    Last edited by SunisinuS; 01-29-2011 at 04:47 AM. Reason: Hard a revolution....while it be Velvet or Otherwise.
    Can't Control your Future. Can't Control your Friends. The women start to hike their skirts up. I didn't have a clue. That is when I kinda learned how to smile a lot. One Two Three Fouir fun ter thehr fuur.

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    To be more clear: Pain is the human condition. You think otherwise....you have a mental illness. We only survive through the ability to overcome pain. Look to the founders of your country. If they believe that comfort is the way to freedom....then they have another think coming.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro Express View Post
    I lived in Israel in 1987 doing a study abroad thing in college. Things were pretty calm then. We used to go into Egypt and stay at a great beach resort in Al Arish. We tried to get into Saudi Arabia because they have some world class scuba diving along the Red Sea. Impossible to get a visa. Not much going on between the Jews and Palistinians then either. I had the feeling then I better see what I want to see because the middle east can go off at any time.

  20. #20
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    Obama said he spoke to the egyptian president after his speech last night, he said he told him it was his responsibility to follow through with his promises. jeezus christ where does he get the balls to be giving advice about following through on promises?. CNN also reported that all the tear gas cylinders being used on the protesters were manufactured in the united states.

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    Things haven't changed since Lawrence of Arabia was running around there. Got to protect the Suez Canal zone. Other than that, nobody gives a rat's ass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro Express View Post
    The largest organized opposition movement in Egypt is the Muslim Brotherhood.
    And they were pretty late on the boat of this current uprising, which has actually caused them to lose credibility as a largely de-fanged, beaten down opposition party part of the system the protesters are trying to usurp. This is largely a spontaneous uprising led by students, internet activists, and the largely secular intellectual elites inspired by the deposition of the Tunisian strongman a few weeks ago. The main hurdle they face is that they are in fact NOT an organized opposition. But a loose, somewhat leaderless confederation of people sick of corruption, military dictatorship, and a status quo that quashes any form of social mobility and meritocracy...
    Last edited by Nickdfresh; 01-29-2011 at 06:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro Express View Post
    It might be noted the internet and cell phone networks were shut down in Egypt. Great organizing tools until the government pulls the plug.
    The cell phone shut down will cause difficulties. However, I've heard it speculated that one of the ways to piss people off and make them more actively belligerent is to shut off their internet, which serves as a tool to release their anger via blogging and posting on message boards. Take away that, they have no other way to vent than to throw firebombs in the street...

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    The key is to be organized. The government can mop up an unorganized rabble. Everyone is amazed Egypt could shut down the internet so quickly. It would be almost impossible to do in the US because we have so many internet providers, networks, and routes. It's nothing new. It's why the Romans provided bread and circuses. To keep the people pacified. If the average guy has a job, can buy a beer after work, and get laid, they are pretty much happy. The average person doesn't need much. Once that goes away they get mad and take to the streets. It's happening worldwide and probably will start to happen here in a year or two. Europe is already percolating.

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    Egypt has always been a puppet state of the west because of the strategic importance of the Suez Canal. The Brits purposely set up Israel to be a new base of operations in the Middle East. Israel has always been a puppet state to the European bankers. If there was no canal zone and no oil there, it still would be guys riding around on camels fighting each other.

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    You really need to read history. The Jewish settlers terror bombed the British. I have no idea what you're talking about as Israel endures far more skepticism in Europe than it does in the U.S. There's little oil near Egypt. And neither Egypt nor Israel have a history that one could call conducive to being a client state or "puppet" since Egypt was in the Soviet sphere until the early 1970s, when they largely fell away back towards the West...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro Express View Post
    The key is to be organized. The government can mop up an unorganized rabble....
    That's what they're sort of trying to do. But then, how do you arrest the leaders of a largely leaderless movement? And it seems the security forces may be showing signs they're no longer following orders...

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    The US currently gives Egypt $2 Billion a year. It's a puppet state. The Soviets assisted Egypt during the cold war. There is no oil in Israel or Egypt but there are oil assets near those states and the Suez Canal is in between them. The British have always had an interest because of that reason.

    Israel may not be popular with the average European but they aren't running the show, the banks and oil companies are. You might as well just put North America and Europe in the same boat as far as that is concerned because the big money run the show and they start the wars and revolutions to play their games. North American bankers and European bankers get along fine. Things happen for a reason.

    The middle east is a complicated place and it's history is not so cut and dry. It's where Jews fight Jews and Mulsims fight Muslisms and they fight each other. With the natural resource wealth there, you always have powerful outsiders manipulating things from the outside.

    It's boils down to control of natural resources, trade routes, and pipelines. The countries with the big money and militaries will always be able to buy off the politicians or stir a revolution or invade to change who's in charge. Just because a country doesn't have oil doesn't mean it's not valuable from a transportation perspective or a military strategic location.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    That's what they're sort of trying to do. But then, how do you arrest the leaders of a largely leaderless movement? And it seems the security forces may be showing signs they're no longer following orders...
    Leaderless movements can't accomplish anything. Sure people can take to the streets, break windows, set cars on fire but then comes in the military and they are mowed down. If enough of the military refuse to follow orders then that changes things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    The cell phone shut down will cause difficulties. However, I've heard it speculated that one of the ways to piss people off and make them more actively belligerent is to shut off their internet, which serves as a tool to release their anger via blogging and posting on message boards. Take away that, they have no other way to vent than to throw firebombs in the street...

    It has been reported over the day that people are using dial-up to get Internet access. Fucking snail slow, but it's access nonetheless. So is dial-up a backup emergency plan everyone should keep the ability to access?

    There is zero chance I could use dial-up because I don't even have a live phone line coming in to my house. Haven't in about 5 years. Only phone I have is my cell phone, and my only Internet is through the cable provider. Long gone are the days of the very first thing you do when you move is setup the phone line and plug in your answering machine.

    I don't really stockpile anything in case of major civil unrest or catastrophe. But a phone line might not be a bad idea. Cause even if electricity is totally gone, phone lines still work.



    come to think of it, I don't think my computer even has a way to connect to a phone line...and I know I don't have a cord anywhere even if it did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    That's what they're sort of trying to do. But then, how do you arrest the leaders of a largely leaderless movement? And it seems the security forces may be showing signs they're no longer following orders...
    Leaderless movements can't accomplish anything. Sure people can take to the streets, break windows, set cars on fire but then comes in the military and they are mowed down. If enough of the military refuse to follow orders then that changes things.

    What usually happens is the president promotes family members and friends and the finance minister and generals fear for their jobs. They collude and over throw the government. Usually calls are placed to world banking power brokers who then give their blessing in exchange for a few banana plantations or some kind of favoritism. Then the government changes.

    The power brokers really don't care what kind of atrocities are committed as long as the person in charge serves their interests. The US could care less about what Saddam was doing when Iran was the major concern and Saddam was viewed as an asset. He only became the bad guy when the powers that be wanted to steal his oil and set up large military bases there.

    Governments only care about power because they are power. They are usually controlled by bought off politicians. This is why you don't give a government any more power than is necessary. They are hopelessly corrupt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadaist View Post
    It has been reported over the day that people are using dial-up to get Internet access. Fucking snail slow, but it's access nonetheless. So is dial-up a backup emergency plan everyone should keep the ability to access?

    There is zero chance I could use dial-up because I don't even have a live phone line coming in to my house. Haven't in about 5 years. Only phone I have is my cell phone, and my only Internet is through the cable provider. Long gone are the days of the very first thing you do when you move is setup the phone line and plug in your answering machine.

    I don't really stockpile anything in case of major civil unrest or catastrophe. But a phone line might not be a bad idea. Cause even if electricity is totally gone, phone lines still work.



    come to think of it, I don't think my computer even has a way to connect to a phone line...and I know I don't have a cord anywhere even if it did.
    Yeah. I was working for American Express in downtown Salt Lake City when an F4 tornado ripped through downtown. I actually watched it bounce up the foothills like a top pulling big trees out of the ground, exploding transformers, taking roofs off. I then grabbed my cell phone to call my wife and it wasn't working. I had Voice Stream but everyone else in the building with different providers had the same problem. I then picked up the land line and it still worked.

    I think the best thing to have in an emergency is a backpack full of food, water, something to stay dry and warm with, a good knife, something to start a fire with. Something you can grab quick and get out and live off of for a few days. I like to backpack in the back country of Yellowstone National Park so I always have my pack stocked and ready to go if there is an emergency. One fun exercise is in the middle of winter, pull the main breaker for the house and see how you fare for one day. Kids always freak out because they are so gizmo and computer addicted. It's a good way to test how prepared you are.

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    One of the best assets I've discovered backpacking is those portable water sterilization pumps. Those are great. The only problem I've had was snow camping in -20 weather with the Boy Scouts and having it freeze getting water out of the creek. You should always keep some bleach on hand because a small amount can be used to sterilize water. Clean water is one of the biggest challenges in an emergency situation and contaminated water can make you sick and put you down in a hurry. I took my pump to Guatemala on a pack packing trip and used it in some scary water. I put bleach in the water and then ran it through the pump. I never got the shits.

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    NE,
    you are gravely wrong.
    Leaderless organizations create imagined leaders, similar to WWJD.
    If the chosen have taken to the streets due to a conceptual issue, such as corruption, they are following a conceptual leader. Therefore do not need a physical leader.
    A struggle again corruption is not a figure head necessity.
    "I have heard there are troubles of more than one kind. - Some come from ahead and some come from behind. - But I've bought a big bat. I'm all ready you see. - Now my troubles are going to have troubles with me!" ~ Dr. Seuss
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    Common thread here with Egypt and Yemen (aside from being Middle Eastern Muslim cultures) is that both countries have had corrupt leaders for the past 30 years.

    Maybe the US needs to learn the lesson here?

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    Corruption is an issue any one can partake. One chooses to receive or reject corruption.
    I am sorry what is happening; however, human choice is corruption or confadaunce (sp?)
    Confadance is not the same as secrets.
    Peace be unto all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze View Post
    NE,
    you are gravely wrong.
    Leaderless organizations create imagined leaders, similar to WWJD.
    If the chosen have taken to the streets due to a conceptual issue, such as corruption, they are following a conceptual leader. Therefore do not need a physical leader.
    A struggle again corruption is not a figure head necessity.
    I would say it's a common motivator or a common goal. In reality nothing gets done without leadership especially large things. Without leadership you don't have organizational structure. On a very small scale things work without a leader if you have decent motivated people but on a large scale it just doesn't work.

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    One of the problems with countries; including this one is we don't have real leaders. We have paid puppets. A real leader will be the last to sleep, the last to eat, will go without until everyone else is taken care of. A leaders true responsibility is to make sure the whole is working and not to take from the whole and isolate themselves.

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    Mubarak should just come out & say we will have new open Presidential elections in 90 days. At that time I will not run for a 6th term & will step down. The shitstorm would calm down, lives would be saved, Egypt would get a leader they want (as long as the elections aren't rigged), and he would save a little face.

    He was done in October anyways. What's the big fucking deal moving it up by 4-5 months? This also prevents the current strongest faction rioting from taking the leadership by force & fucking Egypt even more so.

    And turn back on the Internet & cellular services immediately.

    If it were truly what was in the best interests of his country & countrymen, and not about hanging on to every ounce of power he can, he would have done this days ago.

    I hope everything ends up in a good place for Egypt. It's on my dream list of places to visit in my lifetime. My bucket list.

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    The interesting thing is the reputation the military have. All males between 18 and 30 are required to serve at least one year.

    And the military has a history of overthrowing dictators in order to establish democratic rule. So even though they have been called out, they have been welcomed by the protesters, and are not beating them down. It is the police service that is hated by the people, which is why they have been looting all the police stations, while the military stand by doing nothing, and as a result are not being attacked by the public.

    It is inevitable that Mubarek step down. I mean, what the fuck is he going to do, try to retain power while the entire country is rebelling against him?

    I hope it all works out well also. I hope that any replacement for the current regime is a more free and open society, with no militant religious zealots fucking shit up.

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