ObamaCare at Supreme Court hearing

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  • Jagermeister
    Full Member Status

    • Apr 2010
    • 4510

    ObamaCare at Supreme Court hearing

    I am really surprised no one has wanted to talk about this.
    Tons of stories on it today.


    The man often known as the Supreme Court's swing justice posed tough questions about the scope of the controversial health care overhaul Tuesday, suggesting he might have doubts about its validity.

    Justice Anthony Kennedy did not tip his hand as to how he might ultimately vote in the case -- a ruling is not expected until summer.

    But on the most important day of hearings for the landmark case, the entirety of the bench was thoroughly engaged for a two-hour debate over the constitutional merits of President Obama's health care law. Based on the tenor of Tuesday's arguments, the justices appear to be closely divided and the case may ultimately come down to the views of Kennedy.

    Kennedy, cutting to the heart of the debate over the so-called individual mandate -- which was the focus of Tuesday's hearing -- asked the federal government's attorney to explain what constitutional power the government had to force all Americans to obtain health insurance.

    "Can you create commerce to regulate it?" Kennedy asked Solicitor General Don Verrilli. That question addressed a key issue in the case about whether Congress exceeded its regulatory authority under the Commerce Clause.

    Later, Kennedy said the law was unique and felt it was "changing the relationship between the individual and the (federal) government." He acknowledged the Court normally gives Congress the benefit of the doubt on laws that it passes but in this instance there was a "heavy burden of justification" necessary for supporters of ObamaCare to prove its legal worth.

    What's not clear is if the answers provided by Verrilli satisfied Kennedy's apparent doubts.

    The comments and questions from the other justices generally suggested they would fall along familiar ideological divisions.

    "The argument here is that this ... may be necessary, but it's not proper because it violates an equally evident principle in the Constitution, which is that the federal government is not supposed to be a government that has all powers," Justice Antonin Scalia, considered to be on the conservative side of the bench, said at one point. "That it's supposed to be a government of limited powers. And that's what all this questioning has been about. What is left? If the government can do this, what, what else can it not do?"

    Obama appointee Justice Elena Kagan, though, appeared to defend the law, seemingly echoing Verrilli's point by asking, "in this context, the subsidizers eventually become the subsidized?"

    At the start of his arguments, oddly interrupted by a scratchy throat, Verrilli plainly stated that "the Affordable Care Act addresses a fundamental and enduring problem in the health care system and economy."



    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...#ixzz1qLSOJeeD
  • Jagermeister
    Full Member Status

    • Apr 2010
    • 4510

    #2
    Great argument.

    Opponents of the individual mandate provision of President Obama's health care law contend that if the government can force you to buy health insurance, its powers of compulsion are virtually unlimited. Chief Justice John Roberts wonders what else Washington can force citizens to buy in this exchange:

    CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS: Well, the same, it seems to me, would be true say for the market in emergency services: police, fire, ambulance, roadside assistance, whatever. You don't know when you're going to need it; you're not sure that you will. But the same is true for health care. You don't know if you're going to need a heart transplant or if you ever will. So there is a market there. To -- in some extent, we all participate in it. So can the government require you to buy a cell phone because that would facilitate responding when you need emergency services? You can just dial 911 no matter where you are?

    GENERAL VERRILLI: No, Mr. Chief Justice. think that's different. It's -- We -- I don't think we think of that as a market. This is a market. This is market regulation. And in addition, you have a situation in this market not only where people enter involuntarily as to when they enter and won't be able to control what they need when they enter but when they --

    CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS: It seems to me that's the same as in my hypothetical. You don't know when you're going to need police assistance. You can't predict the extent to emergency response that you'll need. But when you do, and the government provides it.

    Comment

    • Jagermeister
      Full Member Status

      • Apr 2010
      • 4510

      #3
      Well looks to me like this baby is going down. And it should.

      Comment

      • jhale667
        DIAMOND STATUS
        • Aug 2004
        • 20929

        #4
        Originally posted by Jagermeister
        Well looks to me like this baby is going down. And it should.

        No, it doesn't yet, and no, it shouldn't - unless it's to be replaced with a single-payer plan. Love the logic behind "I'll gladly pay 10x more for something, just don't tell me I HAVE TO buy it!!" when you're gonna pay for it anyway...
        Originally posted by conmee
        If anyone even thinks about deleting the Muff Thread they are banned.... no questions asked.

        That is all.

        Icon.
        Originally posted by GO-SPURS-GO
        I've seen prominent hypocrite liberal on this site Jhale667


        Originally posted by Isaac R.
        Then it's really true??:eek:

        The Muff Thread is really just GONE ???

        OMFG...who in their right mind...???
        Originally posted by eddie78
        I was wrong about you, brother. You're good.

        Comment

        • Jagermeister
          Full Member Status

          • Apr 2010
          • 4510

          #5
          It's history dude.

          Comment

          • ELVIS
            Banned
            • Dec 2003
            • 44120

            #6
            Obamacare going DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            The federal government has no constitutional buisiness bureaucratizing american sick care or any other services we may or may not have as individual citizens...


            Comment

            • Va Beach VH Fan
              ROTH ARMY FOUNDER
              • Dec 2003
              • 17913

              #7
              Well, I can see the objections to making it mandatory to have health care insurance.

              BUT, assuming those people who object don't get insurance themselves, what will they do when they get sick, regardless of the severity?

              I mean, having a cold/fever is one thing, run down to the drugstore, no biggie....

              But what if they eventually develop Type 2 Diabetes, as that's certainly not unrealistic? Or cancer?

              Or other things that require blood work, x-rays, etc. ??

              Are those same people going to just skip on down to the Emergency Room, where they know they won't be turned away ??
              Eat Us And Smile - The Originals

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              Comment

              • Matt White
                • Jun 2004
                • 20565

                #8
                Of course they'll strike it down.............

                these are the same Corporate Whores who rolled back Campaign Finance Laws to the Gilded age standards......................

                Bought & Sold by Corporate America......................

                Comment

                • jhale667
                  DIAMOND STATUS
                  • Aug 2004
                  • 20929

                  #9
                  Matt and VA both make excellent points, and to VA's - we're already paying for it when people like that go to the emergency room, so the "market" argument is unique - the people that don't want to buy insurance are still driving up costs for those of us that do.

                  And to Matt's - THAT's the thing that's disturbing... you can make the case for why it should be left to stand all day (makes more sense than striking it down on SO many levels), but as I heard it put this morning "We're not talking about 'honorable judges' - these are the same partisan hacks that approved Citizens United...".
                  Originally posted by conmee
                  If anyone even thinks about deleting the Muff Thread they are banned.... no questions asked.

                  That is all.

                  Icon.
                  Originally posted by GO-SPURS-GO
                  I've seen prominent hypocrite liberal on this site Jhale667


                  Originally posted by Isaac R.
                  Then it's really true??:eek:

                  The Muff Thread is really just GONE ???

                  OMFG...who in their right mind...???
                  Originally posted by eddie78
                  I was wrong about you, brother. You're good.

                  Comment

                  • ELVIS
                    Banned
                    • Dec 2003
                    • 44120

                    #10
                    I don't even have a problem with some sort of basic mandatory insurance...

                    My argument is that it's not a federal issue, but a state issue...

                    Power needs to be kept away from the big federal burearcrats...

                    Comment

                    • ELVIS
                      Banned
                      • Dec 2003
                      • 44120

                      #11
                      Federal intervention will NOT cause health care costs to go down...

                      Comment

                      • kwame k
                        TOASTMASTER GENERAL
                        • Feb 2008
                        • 11302

                        #12
                        Considering the bill was written by lobbyist from the insurance companies and the pharma industries I'd like to see this law scrapped!

                        The sad thing is.....if this does get shot down the odds of us ever getting any true reform is gone

                        Just look at Max Baucus.....one of the co-authors;

                        .......Montana Democrat Max Baucus, chair of the Senate Finance Committee and author of the main health bill—received donations not only from health care companies, but from the private lobbyists that represent those firms. Baucus alone received $1.5 million.
                        Link

                        The health care industry pumped close to $400 million dollars into getting the bill to be exactly what they wanted........fucking assholes!
                        Originally posted by vandeleur
                        E- Jesus . Playing both sides because he didnt understand the argument in the first place

                        Comment

                        • kwame k
                          TOASTMASTER GENERAL
                          • Feb 2008
                          • 11302

                          #13
                          Originally posted by ELVIS
                          Federal intervention will NOT cause health care costs to go down...
                          Doing nothing has sure worked out great, too!
                          Originally posted by vandeleur
                          E- Jesus . Playing both sides because he didnt understand the argument in the first place

                          Comment

                          • Jagermeister
                            Full Member Status

                            • Apr 2010
                            • 4510

                            #14
                            Originally posted by kwame k
                            Considering the bill was written by lobbyist from the insurance companies and the pharma industries I'd like to see this law scrapped!

                            The sad thing is.....if this does get shot down the odds of us ever getting any true reform is gone

                            Just look at Max Baucus.....one of the co-authors;

                            Link

                            The health care industry pumped close to $400 million dollars into getting the bill to be exactly what they wanted........fucking assholes!
                            What? lol this law was written by fucking Democrats!

                            Jesus H Christ!

                            Comment

                            • FORD
                              ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

                              • Jan 2004
                              • 58783

                              #15
                              Opie Roberts is truly conflicted about this case.

                              On the one hand, he's a BCE appointee, so he's obligated to rule against a "Democratic" administration whenever possible. He couldn't even get the oath right, for fucks sake.

                              On the other hand, his record is 100% pro-corporatism. And in this case, ruling against the "Democratic" administration also means ruling against the predatory insurance industry.

                              I predict it will be a 5-4 decision, but not the usual kind, with the 5 BCE employees on one side and the Clinton/Obama appointees on the other. Opie Roberts himself may be the swing vote here.

                              Obviously if it were up to me, I'd say pull the plug on the whole damn thing and replace it with single payer.
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                              "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

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