The Army Boxing Thread

[binnie]

How in the name of cunt did he manage that when he played about the same amount of football I did last year?

He sells underwear, perfume, pens, and any other crap he put his name on....

[vandeleur]

It's hardly his fault though, is it? You can only beat who they put in front of you.

It's the same with the revisionist history on Mike Tyson - 'who'd he beat when he was in his prime?' There wasn't anyone for him to beat when he was in his prime (although the US heavies in the 80s shit all over the US heavies today, but that's another story).

Sometimes it's not who you beat, but how you beat them. We have to remember that Floyd is not a 147lbs fighter. He was at his best at 130lbs - watch those fights (Corrales, for instance) and you are witnessing one of the greatest ever to lace 'em up. If Floyd would be a tough opponent for the best there ever was at 147, he'd be too much for those at 130 (and probably 135, although he didn't stay there long).

Sugar Ray was an incredible fighter - but he was also provided the stage to shine on by taking those fights (personally, I think he best victory was Benitez, who was tougher than those guys in many ways because he could move). However, think about some of the guys Floyd has beaten at the higher weights:

Oscar De La Hoya (Hall of Famer, and Floyd stepped up in weight to beat him)
Miguel Cotto (ditto - and a tough SOB)
Diego Corrales

And then there's a long list of excellent fighters who he DOMINATED. If the Pacman fight happens and Floyd wins, that would be as significant as any of SRL's wins. Martinez at 154 would also be a good scalp.

I see it like this: pound for pound, Floyd is a better fighter than SRL ever w
as, but if they'd actually met at 147 SRL would have won (because he's naturally the bigger guy).

Not sure I agree binnie but you put your arguement across really well as always .
I think it's tough comparing fighters from different generations and different weights compounds that .
I think the bottom line if there is one is that as u say a boxer is defined by the people he beats and the class of the opponents around at the time .

It's a bit like the Holmes era ...he held the belt at the time for the longest undefeated run if I remember right but who cares as it was post Ali Frazier forman norton etc etc which when u think back is pretty unlucky for Holmes ..... Mayweather while being a better boxer than srl and beating every one he has fought that isn't the same as having a monster like Haglar On your belt .... The more we talk of this Mayweather needs a PAC scalp ...

And. Besides all this srl was doing lots of press here earlier in the year and he was a honest articulate genuine guy ... For a man who chins people for a living

[binnie]

Larry Holmes is/was vastly underappreciated.

I'd say he's a top 3 ATG heavyweight.

[sonrisa salvaje]

It's hardly his fault though, is it? You can only beat who they put in front of you.

It's the same with the revisionist history on Mike Tyson - 'who'd he beat when he was in his prime?' There wasn't anyone for him to beat when he was in his prime (although the US heavies in the 80s shit all over the US heavies today, but that's another story).

Sometimes it's not who you beat, but how you beat them. We have to remember that Floyd is not a 147lbs fighter. He was at his best at 130lbs - watch those fights (Corrales, for instance) and you are witnessing one of the greatest ever to lace 'em up. If Floyd would be a tough opponent for the best there ever was at 147, he'd be too much for those at 130 (and probably 135, although he didn't stay there long).

Sugar Ray was an incredible fighter - but he was also provided the stage to shine on by taking those fights (personally, I think he best victory was Benitez, who was tougher than those guys in many ways because he could move). However, think about some of the guys Floyd has beaten at the higher weights:

Oscar De La Hoya (Hall of Famer, and Floyd stepped up in weight to beat him)
Miguel Cotto (ditto - and a tough SOB)
Diego Corrales

And then there's a long list of excellent fighters who he DOMINATED. If the Pacman fight happens and Floyd wins, that would be as significant as any of SRL's wins. Martinez at 154 would also be a good scalp.

I see it like this: pound for pound, Floyd is a better fighter than SRL ever was, but if they'd actually met at 147 SRL would have won (because he's naturally the bigger guy).

I think that is a fair assessment. You can't fault a guy like Larry Holmes for never fighting the caliber of an Ali in his prime. I think these kind of debates are why i love this thread so much.

[binnie]

I'll tell you what, there is a case for Larry beating a prime Ali. Who did Ali fight who could BOX like Holmes. That damn jab, man.

He would have given any version of Ali - and any heavyweight in history - fits.

[Dave's Bitch]

Larry Holmes is/was vastly underappreciated.

I'd say he's a top 3 ATG heavyweight.

Now that is interesting,Never really heard anyone have Holmes in the top 3.Although in terms of skill i would probably agree.Out of interest who are the other two?

[binnie]

Well, you've put me on the spot now!

I'd say it looks like this:

1) Ali
2) Jack Johnson
3) Holmes

If someone wanted to argue that Lennox Lewis deserves a spot up there, I wouldn't fight 'em to the death. Dull, certainly, but Lewis was very, very good.

[Dave's Bitch]

Now i was so ready to jump in on who ever was number 2 with "But what about Jack Johnson?!?!?!??!!?".That one get's a thank's because of the big ass smile on my face now

Always love when I see Johnson's name where it deserves as I am a huge fan,I get pretty tired of the conventional list of top heavy's.You guy's know the one I'm talking about

[sonrisa salvaje]

I'll tell you what, there is a case for Larry beating a prime Ali. Who did Ali fight who could BOX like Holmes. That damn jab, man.

He would have given any version of Ali - and any heavyweight in history - fits.

To that i would say who did Holmes fight that could box like Ali in his prime?

[sonrisa salvaje]

The one i would like to have seen would be the young George Foreman against the prime Mike Tyson.

[Dave's Bitch]

The one i would like to have seen would be the young George Foreman against the prime Mike Tyson.

That would be interesting.Tyson would not be able to bully Foreman,Foreman would bully tyson.I don't think Tyson would be able to slug with Foreman or swarm him.I would say Foreman by KO

[vandeleur]

Well, you've put me on the spot now!

I'd say it looks like this:

1) Ali
2) Jack Johnson
3) Holmes

If someone wanted to argue that Lennox Lewis deserves a spot up there, I wouldn't fight 'em to the death. Dull, certainly, but Lewis was very, very good.

Man Lewis was good tho I never liked to watch him .... But I don't see him in that stella company

[vandeleur]

The one i would like to have seen would be the young George Foreman against the prime Mike Tyson.

On their day both these guys were un fightable ,the foreman who fought frasier would have given anyone a match and Tyson is a complex fighter to judge , his first few title defences he was incredible .. And technically better than he gets credit for ... The Tyson who was hypnotised by don king became a joke ... But both at their top were monsters

[VHscraps]

Man Lewis was good tho I never liked to watch him .... But I don't see him in that stella company

I wouldn't put him in that company, either ... but, in his era, if you were a betting man, Lewis was always a good bet against anyone.

[sadaist]

In his prime, on his best nights....Evander


Not gonna argue. Just my favorite.