It was a good fight wasn't it? Proof that Cotto still has the warrior spirit despite all of those tough fights....
It was a good fight wasn't it? Proof that Cotto still has the warrior spirit despite all of those tough fights....
The Power Of The Riff Compels Me
Damn. Guerrero vs. Maidana is cancelled due to the Ghost hurting his shoulder. What is worse.....it might be a torn rotator cuff that would put him out until next year. This sucketh much.
RIDE TO LIVE, LIVE TO RIDE
LET `EM ROLL ONE MORE TIME
Chagaev-Povetkin tomorrow.
I find it hard to care, and harder to pick.
Chagaev was actually a very good heavyweight, with some real skills. His persistent injuries/illnesses, however, robbed his career of momentum and when he finally got Wlad all of the inactivity made him a shell of his former self.
Povetkin is in danger of becoming a never was - man his career has developed tentatively. That being said, he's younger and less damamged, so I expect he'll eek out a UD unless Chagaev has somehow found a second career wind.
It's worth watching - not a thriller, but well worth your time.
Ok, let's do some fantasy match-ups. Just for shits and giggles.
How would the following fights play out (assuming each fighter was in their prime)?
Rocky Marciano vs Joe Frazier
Muhammed Ali vs Lennox Lewis
Evander Holyfield vs Sonny Liston
Vitali Klitschko vs Larry Holmes
Joe Louis vs Mike Tyson
I'm starting with the heavies - we'll see how it goes and maybe we'll do some lighter weights............
Did anyone see the first episode of Mayweather-Ortiz 24/7?
There was a huge fighter between Mayweather Sn and Mayweather Jn about 'respect'. Looked to have been faked for the cameras to me...........
Rocky Marciano vs Joe Frazier - Going Frazier, all I really know about Marciano is what I have read and some old footage that always gets played when they talk about Marciano. Frazier was a beast.
Muhammed Ali vs Lennox Lewis - Really? Ali without breaking a sweat.
Evander Holyfield vs Sonny Liston - Tough one, I'll go Liston but I do have alot of respect for Holyfield even though he held on for WAY to long.
Vitali Klitschko vs Larry Holmes - Holmes, 1st round, in my opinion Bitchko is the worst fighter on this list.
Joe Louis vs Mike Tyson - I'll probably catch flack for this but give me Tyson. Before all the money and fame went to his head he was a fucking monster. Louis would have given him fits but Mike would have kept coming. It is a shame what happened to Tyson's career and it is all his own fault.
Here's my take.
Frazier-Marciano.
This is the best fight on the list, and a real 50/50 affair. Both are around the same size, both can bang, and both never took a step backwards. The result is a war. The thing that people tend to forget about Marciano was that he was deceptively hard to hit cleanly - that gives him a bit of an edge here. His right hand was absolutely lethal. Frazier was relentless and fearless, and would have kept coming all night. I'd say that Marciano was just too small to comptete in the heavyweight division after about 1980, but Frazier was a small heavy too so I think it'd be evenly matched. Rocky might end up touching the floor, but he eventually stops Frazier late on through a TKO - Foreman aside, Frazier has never been hit so hard in his life.
Ali - Lewis
This is a difficult one to call. Lewis is unlikely anyone Ali ever fought. Bigger (by quite a margin), and incredibly mobile for a giant. Great defense, excellent jab (second only to Holmes) and real power. The problem with him was that he was often dull to watch: he was more than happy to go 12 rounds rather than give the crowd some fireworks (but, if you want to see some, watch the Golota and Ruddock fights). We'd all be gunning for Ali here - the flashy showman, the guy with the fast hands and fast feet. With that speed, he certainly have success against Lewis, but I don't think he's have the power to KO him. That being said, Lewis is considered by many boxing experts to be the worst ATG match up for Ali because he combines perfect boxing fundamentals with a significant size advantage. Much as it breaks my heart to admit it, I see Lewis cutting the ring off and using his significant height and reach advantage to keep Ali on the end of his jab all night along his way to a relatively dull UD.
Evander Holyfield vs Sonny Liston
Everyone loves the 'Real Deal'. He is one of the toughest SOB on all time, and he has really showed that toughness in countless fights over the years. Combined with a great set of skills (especially for a heavy) and significant work rate and speed, he's be an handful for any ATG. The problem for Holyfield, however, was that when he met other ATG in their prime (Tyson was past it), he came up short - Bowe (who might not really be an ATG) and Lewis, handled him fairly easily. Against Liston, he's not battling against a taller man. He is, however, battling against a guy with a reach advantage and a ram-rod jab, things which Tyson didn't have. That jab keeps Holyfield off balance most of the night, and is backed up by an absolutely lethal right hand. Holyfield's ring IQ and heart keep him in it during the first six rounds, but he'd getting clubbed all over the ring. The result is a TKO around round 9-10.
Holmes vs - Vitali Klitschko.
The Klitschko brothers are an odd phenomenon: the highest KO ratios in heavyweight boxing ever, matched with the reputation for being the most boring! Part of the explanation for that 'boredom' is undoubtedly down to the lack of opposition they've had to face over the years (nothing they can do about that). It is clear that Wlad - for all of his ungodly punching power - is vulnerable on the chin. Vitali, by contrast, is iron jawed. He took some of Lewis's best shots and didn't blink (that fight heating up into a classic until it got stopped on cuts). With huge power, and a significant height and reach advantage over all ATG fighters (he's 6'7" and Foreman was 6'3") he is a hard night's work for any of them - you have to be able to get close to do damage. Much as we'd like to think Ali would dance round him, Foreman would pummel him, and Tyson would KO him in the first round, the results would be very different I think, as none of those guys had ever faced a guy that big and that strong. The exception is Holmes, I think. That guy knew how to win, and to overcome adversity. He also had the best jab in heavyweight history. Here, he uses that jab and right hand to 1-2 Klitscko all night en route to a UD. Klitscko has his moments, and Holmes might have to get up off the canvas after one of Vitali's combinations. But, unlike most of the guys the Klits face, Holmes believes he can win from round 1 to round 12. Holmes is the third best heavyweight ever, IMO.
Joe Louis - Mike Tyson
Louis's handspeed and significant punching power makes sure that Tyson takes some shots here. But he's never been in with a guy as heavy as Mike, as strong, or as fast and accurate. I see Louis's bravery taking him to round 5, when he eventually succombs to Tyson's power. Pre Sonny Liston, Louis beats pretty much any man ever to fight at heavyweight (with the possible exception of Jack Johnson). In the era after that, however, he starts to give away 20 + lbs and more, and is facing guys who hit much harder than anything he's faced before.
I'm enjoying this. Here's some more fantasy match-ups at heavy for you to think about (again, all are in their primes):
Joe Louis vs Muhammed Ali
Riddick Bowe vs George Foreman
Ken Norton vs Joe Frazier
Earnie Shavers vs Wladimir Klitschko
Jack Dempsey vs Max Baer
Looks like Cotto-Margarritto II will be made at a catch-weight somewhere between 150-154.
Expect a war - Cotto has the skills to beat him, I just hope he doesn't fight stupid like he did last time.
Ya think? I disagree...from what I've read and heard, their relationship is strained at best - there's still genuine animosity between them from Jr's teen years left over. The rest of his family and the entourage looked horrified, like "did that just happen with HBO here?"...they looked embarrassed. Mostly by Jr...that was basically an overblown semantic debate: Of course Sr. is his original trainer, but Roger was his first and only professional trainer. Jr. needs to get over it. I think Floyd Jr's actually a little distracted here, which is unusual - so this fight could get interesting. And burning hundred dollar bills doesn't win fans among dudes who nearly starved to death as dirt-poor (orphan) kids.
Did you see De La Hoya's speculation Floyd is "shot" because he's now 34? Excuse me, but was Bernard Hopkins not older than that when he kicked Oscars' ass??
Floyd's chick? I'd hit dat.
I did like the bit, after seeing Ortiz in the first episode (oddly)shouting his own name while working on the speed bag,- and not like in a "what's my name" kind of way, it was more...third person. But as they showed Floyd doing his workout with his, he yelled out "Everybody knows what the fuck my name is!" Doing that kind of thing - Ortiz does seem like he's still trying to convince himself he can do this...not a good sign IMO. Plus, hello - he's got an entourage too, why the fuck weren't they shouting his name for him - they're on the fucking payroll, after all...shouldn't be doing his own pep-talks, dude - you've got people for that now...
Predictions?
Oscar was trying to hype the fight by questioning Mayweather's opposition.
Hatton was a 'little guy' (who'd beat the living shit out of Ortiz); JMM was a little guy (who was P4P no. 2 at the time and is good enough to get Pacquiao at 147 - oh, and who'd also beat the shit out of Ortiz); Oscar was 'done' (yeah, right, keep telling yourself you have beaten Mayweather in your prime Oscar); and on and on......
I guess it's the promoter's job to encourage his charge, but Ortiz is going to face the problem all Floyd's opponents face: how do you get your confidence going when you've been punching air for 3 round? I like Ortiz, and I've no doubt he's working hard. He's young, reasonably fast and reasonably powerful, and deserves his no. 2 WW ranking. But he's never going to be the no.1 guy.
I'm almost certain the Sn-Jr ruckass was faked. Not by HBO, but by the Mayweathers to make everyone think there's drama in the camp.
This weekend:
Yurkoris Gamboa - Danield Ponce Delon.
I have a feeling that Ponce Delon causes an upset. I don't know why, it's just an inkling.
Vitali Klitschko - Tomaz Adamek.
Vitali on points. If only bigger heavies had the heart - and skills - of Adamek, the Klits might have some genuine opposition. Adamek will give Vitali some movement and angles that he's not seen in a long time: he may even take a couple of rounds. But Vitali cuts off the ring and essentially clubs Adamek into retreat.
Vitali TKos a game Adamek in 10.
Gamboa beats Ponce DeLeon via a technical decision in round 9 (i.e a cut).
I'm pleased to be wrong about Gamboa - he's always been flashy and powerful, but tonight it was good to see his composure.
Have to throw my hat into the fantasy ring with a few dream fights
Jack Johnson vs Ali
Marciano vs Jack Dempsey
And a couple of lower weight for shits and giggles
Jake Lamotta vs Marvin Hagler
Stanley Ketchel vs Bhop
Tommy Hearns vs Manny Pacquiao
I really love you baby, I love what you've got
Let's get together we can, Get hot
Jack Dempsey vs Jack Johnson
I MUST get opinions on this,i have had this take so many times you would not believe.I hands down give it to Johnson,On account of he was a superb defensive expert and Dempsey's aggressive style would play straight into his hands.But, every other person seems to think Dempsey
Tommy Hearns vs Manny Pacquiao (at 147 I presume?)
Hearns's height advantage make him an absolute stylistic nightmare for Manny. Add in his power advantage and superior footwork and its a bad day at the office for Pacman, who is TKO'd in 8.
Stan Ketchel vs BHop.
Difficult to call. I make it a rule never to bet against BHop, but I'll break it this time. Against fighters, BHop wins every time because he likes guys who come at him in straight lines. Here, however, he's against a guy who can move and has good work rate - Ketchel via UD.
Jake Lamota vs Marvin Haglar.
This is Haglar's fight all night. More powerful, and he could match Lamota for toughness and workrate. Add into that his far, far superior skills set and I see a game Lamota getting knocked all over the ring. It would probably be stopped on cuts in Hagler's favour.
Dempsey vs Marciano.
Can you say war? In terms of power, aggression and toughness these guys are fairly evenly matched. I'd say that Marciano was much harder to his cleanly, which gives him and edge; however, Dempsey was a brutal body puncher, which is his way to victory here. It's go into the late rounds, but I think Dempsey edges it via TKO.
Dempsy vs Jack Johnson.
Johnson toys with Dempsey, who spends most of his time punching air, getting tied up and being off balance. Johnson really was a genius.
Johnson vs Ali.
Pre-layoff Ali takes it; post layoff doesn't. The difference was Ali's mobility in his earlier career. He can't stop Johnson, but he gives him all sorts of things he's not seen before: speed and combinations. That being said, Ali never came up against anyone as defensively savy as Johnson - the closest would be Norton, who gave him fits in all three fights. Maybe, just maybe, Johnson would have baffled him.
Sept 17: Floyd Mayweather jr - Victor Ortiz.
I think everyone would admit that a prime Floyd Mayweather beats the best Victor Ortiz 10 times out of 10. The interesting things here is that - at 34 years old - how long can Floyd's prime continue. Coming off a 16 month layoff, you have to wonder if his reflexes and skills will diminish, and if that gives Ortiz a chance. Freddie Roach said after the Mosely fight that Floyd's legs had 'gone': Floyd claimed that he was adopting a more fan-friendly style. Given that after the second round Mosely barely landed a good shot, I'd agree with Mayweather. The question of what condition he's in, however, is important and compounded by the fact that a young, fast and hungry Ortiz will be he toughest opponent since Hatton in 2007. If the waters get choppy, will he still have the hunger to pull through?
I think so. In truth, I'm not expecting to see a Floyd in decline - he's been sparring southpaws for quite some time (including Kassim Ouma), so I'm expecting him to be sharp and ready. That being said, Ortiz'a southpaw stance may cause Floyd some problems in the first three rounds, and I don't think Floyd will look as dominant as he normally does in the early stages. However, once Floyd gets his timing right, Ortiz will be in trouble. Ortiz does not have the best footwork and balance, and I think his aggression will therefore play into Floyd's hands. I expect Floyd to go to the body more than usual, and I'll be interested to see how Ortiz reacts when things aren't going his way. We may even see a stoppage, but I wouldn't bank on it as Mayweather doesn't like to take chances if he can avoid it.
Floyd by UD.
A lot of the pundits are really giving Ortiz a chance here. People seem to read a lot into Mosely landing one decent punch on Mayweather: on that one punch is staked Floyd's apparent decline.
I like Ortiz: but how can you back a guy who struggled with Lamont Peterson against Floyd Mayweather?
I'm with you. I can't see it. When is the last time Floyd had a close fight? Ortiz can be hit and Floyd for the most part cannot be hit. Floyd has the significant speed advantage. I don't understand how this calculates to a close fight even if you factor in layoffs and age. I give Ortiz a puncher's chance but that is it. This will likely be a boring whitewash of the scorecards.
There are some unknown's here: will the layoff affect Floyd at 34 years old? Will the southpaw stance allow Ortiz to be more succesful than other's have been? Will FLoyd, at 34, start to show signs of age? But these are little more than speculation: you can't build an argument on an unknown.
Ortiz is relentless, reasonably fast and reasonably powerful. But he looked awful against Lamont Peterson and - no offence to Peterson - he's a long way down from Floyd. Ortiz's poor balance, sloppy defense and problems making weight make for an uphill battle, IMO.
AS for when the last time Floyd had a hard night? Castilio I, I guess. It could be argued that the early rounds vs Judah were hard going I suppose. But he won every round against Hatton, Marquez, and all but one against Mosely. Is Ortiz as good - let alone better - than those guys? Bigger, certainly (although not by much in the case of Mosely), but better? I think not.
I was thinking about getting the fight tonight.
So I looked into it and 70 bucks? WTF?
Fuck that shit. Floyd is rich enough.
That said, Floyd is gonna destroy Ortiz. UD.
Floyd Ko's Ortiz in 4.
As ever, it's 'controversial'. Floyd won the first 3 with a more aggressive style than usual (there is a case for Ortiz taking the second). In the 4th - which Floyd was winning - Ortiz backed Floyd to the ropes, missed all of his punches and then billy-goated butted him in the face. Joe Cortez took away a point. Ortiz had apologized twice, they touch gloves and then Floyd hit him with a left and a right.
It is perfectly legal, but classless on Floyd's part. It is taking 'protect yourself at all times' to the letter. To my eyes, Ortiz knew he was getting whooped and decided to stay down.
Not sure why Floyd's being more aggressive of late. He was still dominant against a young, hungry and bigger fighter in his prime, however.
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It is indeed taking "Protect yourself at all times" to the letter...but IMO understandable after that blatant, flagrant head-butt. Ortiz got frustrated because he was hitting air the entire preceding exchange, did a dirty move, and was immediately forced to pay for it. Cortez looked like a deer in the headlights almost as much as Vic did...
I guess you could say that it was legal but classless on Floyd's part. Not sure how Ortiz is coming out of this smelling of roses though - that was a SHOCKING head butt.
Let's just hope Floyd stays active. I think Berto would be a good fight next if Pacman can't happen.
Fucking shitty fight...exactly why boxing is going down the fucking shitter...
All this build up...and it fucking ends like that. Had I actually paid for that fight...I'd never pay again...
The end of boxing...fucking pay-per-view...
Get rid of it...and boxing would catch fire again. Such is life...money ruins everything...
As for Ortiz...shitty...shitty deal...and as for the "KO"...equally shitty...
then to watch that whore hammer an 80-year-old...
I'm sorry...there's brilliant marketing...and there's being a cunt...that's being a cunt...
I hate foreign boxers...but I fucking hope upon all hope that Pac-man gets the fight...and jackhammers Mayweather into oblivion...and I can't stand Pacquiao...
"Van Halen was one of the most hallelujah, tailgate, backyard, BBQ, arrive four hours early to the gig just for the parking lot bands. And still to this day is. It's an attitude. I think it's a spirit more than anything else is."
Fair Fight.
There are boxers and there are fighters. Both boxers followed the rules and the better fighter won.
I never lightly step away from a clench or a break. If I do....I open myself to getting clocked. Boom.
I don't look to the referee in a fight. Bad Idea.
Last edited by SunisinuS; 09-18-2011 at 09:53 PM.
Can't Control your Future. Can't Control your Friends. The women start to hike their skirts up. I didn't have a clue. That is when I kinda learned how to smile a lot. One Two Three Fouir fun ter thehr fuur.
I think you've hit the nail on the head: even though it was technically legal, Floyd didn't NEED to do it. It's the fans who get robbed. Floyd had won pretty much every second of every round up to that point: it's not his fault he's on a different level to everyone he faces, but it sure makes the sport a little duller.
I've always said that I don't like Mayweather the man; but I admire Mayweather the boxer. Sure hope the Pacquiao fight happens, but I really can't see Pacman being successful if it does. Ortiz is a fast, powerful and relentless fighter in his prime who was 14lbs heavier than Mayweather in the ring: and a 34 year old Floyd made him look shit.
I think Floyd knows that a lot of people fork out to watch him get beaten: consequently, it makes him more money to play the villain.
Not sure why you 'hate foreign boxers': seems to me that many of the ATG have not been American. Duran, Casaer Chavez, Lewis, Sanchez, Pacquiao, Moralles, Barrera......the list is a long one. In Mayweather, we have witnessed a genuine ATG and P4P talent (especially at the lower weights). What boxing REALLY needs, however,is an exciting and talented American heavyweight. That's the keystone of the whole sport.
I too just can't see PacMan beating Floyd, especially at a time when (sucker punch or not) he's DESTROYING bigger, stronger fighters with hand-speed that rivals Manny's (but still can't touch Floyd's). Pac would attempt to overwhelm Floyd just like Vic did, and also will come up short. In watching that again, Floyd's timing and accuracy with the right was impressive (not to say it usually isn't) be he was drilling Ortiz AT WILL with it...also thought it was funny, I think Vic realized he'd fucked up the instant after that butt; he sounded just like a little kid when he sheepishly said "I'm sorry" to Joe Cortez after the warning/point reduction. He was so apologetic he was STILL apologizing after Cortez - if you watch around 0:32-:33 gives the hand-signal to resume, but never says "BOX!" out loud because he immediately got distracted - which you also TOTALLY see Floyd notice and, to his credit for blindingly fast reaction time - nailed Ortiz twice a nanosecond later. So as everyone agrees, totally legal, but really shitty.
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In order for Pacman-Mayweather to happen, Pacman has to beat JMM in December. I think the higher weight favours Pacquaio, but it's not a foregone conclusion that he wins. JMM will be out to kill him.
The rumour mill is claiming that Floyd will fight 3 times in the next 12 months, with a possible fight before Christmas. With Floyd, everything should be taken with a pinch of salt, but it would be cool to see him active against decent opposition. There is plenty of hype about Khan stepping up to 147 next year and taking on Floyd at a stadium in England. I imagine that would have to take place in the summer and not coincide with the Olympics. But if he wants another tune-up (can we call Ortiz atune up?), maybe a guy like Malignaggi would be interesting. Or Berto? Clottey would be a snooze fest, but it's a viable option.......
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