Did or Does Dave Make Money off 5150?

[Nickdfresh]

Just wondering but he had to have received some sort of payment in a lump sum perhaps in exchange for a confidentiality agreement? Could he get some residuals for album sales, even? He had three different versions of 5150 songs supposedly....

[FORD]

One would think so, because all he would have to do is produce a tape of those sessions, and it would be obvious that the songs were written - in one form or another - before Sammy slithered in the door.

Now on the other hand, if anything on ADKOT had been written during the Van Hagar years, you can bet that the Ched Rocker would be shipping cases of tequila to any lawyer willing to take it to court.

[ZahZoo]

I somewhat doubt Dave got anything from 5150 royalties... They had good lawyers and there was a lot of record company mouths fed off VH's money machine beyond the band members back in those days.

[Terry]

I'd tend to think not, if only because the work Dave did at the beginning of the 5150 sessions - according to both Eddie and Dave - never reached anything beyond the rehearsal/songwriting stage. I've never even heard anything from anyone stating that Dave even made any attempts to record or demo anything they were rehearsing for the few 5150 tunes CVH jammed on. I seem to recall Ed saying he had maybe 3 of the tunes worked out when Roth was rehearsing with them, and Summer Nights was one of them, but I've never heard anything along the lines that all the songs that ended up on 5150 were already done before Sammy joined the band.

So the material never even reached a point with Dave where he got any songwriting credit in terms of the publishing.

Roth also claims he never asked for any type of settlement when he left the band in 1985, but one would have to imagine some type of agreement was worked out regarding percentages of album sales on the 6-pack stuff.

[Grit]

Would have been awesome to see how good "5150" could have actually been, instead of the mostly commercial crap it was.!

[Terry]

Would have been awesome to see how good "5150" could have actually been, instead of the mostly commercial crap it was.!

On a strictly instrumental level referencing the guitar work, I thought the title track to 5150 was quite good. Same goes for Summer Nights. Get Up was a high-octane rocker. The rest of the material, even on an instrumental level, is a bit trite. Plus, the production tone ruined that album as much as the weak songs did, to my ears: mid-range mush.

[Nickdfresh]

I'd tend to think not, if only because the work Dave did at the beginning of the 5150 sessions - according to both Eddie and Dave - never reached anything beyond the rehearsal/songwriting stage. I've never even heard anything from anyone stating that Dave even made any attempts to record or demo anything they were rehearsing for the few 5150 tunes CVH jammed on. I seem to recall Ed saying he had maybe 3 of the tunes worked out when Roth was rehearsing with them, and Summer Nights was one of them, but I've never heard anything along the lines that all the songs that ended up on 5150 were already done before Sammy joined the band.

So the material never even reached a point with Dave where he got any songwriting credit in terms of the publishing.

Roth also claims he never asked for any type of settlement when he left the band in 1985, but one would have to imagine some type of agreement was worked out regarding percentages of album sales on the 6-pack stuff.

IDK, I think those three songs were more or less finished or close to being so in demo mode. "Summer Nights" was essentially a reworking of virtually completed song with Dave called "Eat Thy Neighbor!" according to Brett at the Links...

Pretty sure Ed burned everything after 5150 was finished...

[Seshmeister]

On a strictly instrumental level referencing the guitar work, I thought the title track to 5150 was quite good. Same goes for Summer Nights. Get Up was a high-octane rocker. The rest of the material, even on an instrumental level, is a bit trite. Plus, the production tone ruined that album as much as the weak songs did, to my ears: mid-range mush.

A Roth version of that album would have been very different IMHO.

"Good Enough" - Better vocal melody/lyrics with Roth
"Why Can't This Be Love" Better vocal melody/lyrics with Roth
"Get Up" Better vocal melody/lyrics with Roth
"Dreams" - Possibly dropped or another I'll Wait.
"Summer Nights" Better vocal melody/lyrics with Roth
"Best of Both Worlds" Better lyrics
"Love Walks In" - Dropped
""5150"" Better vocal melody/lyrics with Roth
"Inside" - This is filler. I haven't listened to it in years but it's not even a song on the album. Probably dropped.

5150 with Roth could have ended up being 6 of those plus 2 covers. I think it would probably been weaker than 1984 because I don't think Roth could turn any of those tunes into a HFT, Panama or make WCTBL repeat the success of Jump.

[Romeo Delight]

On a strictly instrumental level referencing the guitar work, I thought the title track to 5150 was quite good. Same goes for Summer Nights. Get Up was a high-octane rocker. The rest of the material, even on an instrumental level, is a bit trite. Plus, the production tone ruined that album as much as the weak songs did, to my ears: mid-range mush.

Agreed. Best of Both Worlds I thought was also decent

[Terry]

Agreed. Best of Both Worlds I thought was also decent

It was an okay tune. The main riff/chord sequence for the chorus got a bit repetitious, but it wasn't totally terrible. It worked a bit better live for the band: on record, it's kinda sterile to me by Van Halen standards.

[Nickdfresh]

...on record, it's kinda sterile to me by Van Halen standards.

Of course, this is called "The Hagar Effect"...

[FORD]

Agreed. Best of Both Worlds I thought was also decent

I'm sure Kool & the Gang thought so when they wrote it.

[Terry]

A Roth version of that album would have been very different IMHO.

"Good Enough" - Better vocal melody/lyrics with Roth
"Why Can't This Be Love" Better vocal melody/lyrics with Roth
"Get Up" Better vocal melody/lyrics with Roth
"Dreams" - Possibly dropped or another I'll Wait.
"Summer Nights" Better vocal melody/lyrics with Roth
"Best of Both Worlds" Better lyrics
"Love Walks In" - Dropped
""5150"" Better vocal melody/lyrics with Roth
"Inside" - This is filler. I haven't listened to it in years but it's not even a song on the album. Probably dropped.

5150 with Roth could have ended up being 6 of those plus 2 covers. I think it would probably been weaker than 1984 because I don't think Roth could turn any of those tunes into a HFT, Panama or make WCTBL repeat the success of Jump.

Good Enough might have been interesting in terms of Roth taking a pass at it, although to be honest musically it was a bit pedestrian. It's sort of Van Halen by-the-numbers: nothing surprising, yet nothing exceptional, either.

Why Can't This Be Love I can do without, and certainly without Dave's take on it. Mundane, and sort of lacking identity: sounds like it could have been churned out by any top 40 pop band.

Get Up is an energetic rocker. Nothing earth shattering in terms of breaking new ground, but perhaps Roth's lyrical or vocal take on it would have made it slightly better.

Dreams, much like Why Can't This Be Love, I can do without. This isn't the type of stuff I ever wanted to hear from Van Halen to begin with.

Summer Nights isn't a bad tune at all. In point of fact, Summer Nights and the 5150 title track are really the only two tunes I liked from the guitar aspect. I'd be up for hearing what Dave could do with that.

Best Of Both Worlds...that main chord sequence is just...like, by the time the second chorus comes around, I'm literally bored with it. It's a very simple song, and shows a lot of restraint on Eddie's part: he's literally just playing what was needed for a simple tune. But it's a little bit like the Where Have All The Good Times Gone? cover in the respect that the main riff is played to the point of overkill. It's almost as if Best Of Both Worlds is missing an additional chord sequence, and it sounds a bit lazy and uninspired to me.

Love Walks In - again, this isn't something I want to hear from Van Halen. While this was clearly something Eddie wanted to do, it's not the type of thing I want to hear from him: it's mundane synth pop of such a schmaltzy nature that - much like Why Can't This Be Love - sounds like it could have been written by anybody.

5150 - Great tune. Probably Eddie's best work on the album. Doubtless Roth could have improved on the lyrics, but really it's only this tune and Summer Nights that reminded me why I liked Van Halen so much to begin with.

Inside - Indeed, that IS just charmless filler. Something that would have been better served left in the vault: 5150 ending on the title track would have served the album slightly better.

[Romeo Delight]

Best Of Both Worlds...that main chord sequence is just...like, by the time the second chorus comes around, I'm literally bored with it. It's a very simple song, and shows a lot of restraint on Eddie's part: he's literally just playing what was needed for a simple tune. But it's a little bit like the Where Have All The Good Times Gone? cover in the respect that the main riff is played to the point of overkill. It's almost as if Best Of Both Worlds is missing an additional chord sequence, and it sounds a bit lazy and uninspired to me.

Agreed, but with Dave involved I think the song structure would have been much different.

Even Summer Nights, although one of the better tunes, could have done with some re-arranging.

In my mind 5150 is the most complete VH tune that could literally have Dave insert his own lyrical treatment.

[FORD]

For some reason I always got the feeling that "Good Enough" should have been "Yankee Rose" and "5150" would have been "Going Crazy" if Dave had stayed in the band. Music is not an exact fit, but then Dave couldn't have Vai playing Eddie's music on the record, so it would have had to be re-written anyway.