Republicans v Science

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  • Seshmeister
    ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

    • Oct 2003
    • 35192

    Republicans v Science



    By PAUL KRUGMAN
    Published: August 28, 2011

    Jon Huntsman Jr., a former Utah governor and ambassador to China, isn’t a serious contender for the Republican presidential nomination. And that’s too bad, because Mr. Hunstman has been willing to say the unsayable about the G.O.P. — namely, that it is becoming the “anti-science party.” This is an enormously important development. And it should terrify us.

    To see what Mr. Huntsman means, consider recent statements by the two men who actually are serious contenders for the G.O.P. nomination: Rick Perry and Mitt Romney.

    Mr. Perry, the governor of Texas, recently made headlines by dismissing evolution as “just a theory,” one that has “got some gaps in it” — an observation that will come as news to the vast majority of biologists. But what really got peoples’ attention was what he said about climate change: “I think there are a substantial number of scientists who have manipulated data so that they will have dollars rolling into their projects. And I think we are seeing almost weekly, or even daily, scientists are coming forward and questioning the original idea that man-made global warming is what is causing the climate to change.”

    That’s a remarkable statement — or maybe the right adjective is “vile.”

    The second part of Mr. Perry’s statement is, as it happens, just false: the scientific consensus about man-made global warming — which includes 97 percent to 98 percent of researchers in the field, according to the National Academy of Sciences — is getting stronger, not weaker, as the evidence for climate change just keeps mounting.

    In fact, if you follow climate science at all you know that the main development over the past few years has been growing concern that projections of future climate are underestimating the likely amount of warming. Warnings that we may face civilization-threatening temperature change by the end of the century, once considered outlandish, are now coming out of mainstream research groups.

    But never mind that, Mr. Perry suggests; those scientists are just in it for the money, “manipulating data” to create a fake threat. In his book “Fed Up,” he dismissed climate science as a “contrived phony mess that is falling apart.”

    I could point out that Mr. Perry is buying into a truly crazy conspiracy theory, which asserts that thousands of scientists all around the world are on the take, with not one willing to break the code of silence. I could also point out that multiple investigations into charges of intellectual malpractice on the part of climate scientists have ended up exonerating the accused researchers of all accusations. But never mind: Mr. Perry and those who think like him know what they want to believe, and their response to anyone who contradicts them is to start a witch hunt.

    So how has Mr. Romney, the other leading contender for the G.O.P. nomination, responded to Mr. Perry’s challenge? In trademark fashion: By running away. In the past, Mr. Romney, a former governor of Massachusetts, has strongly endorsed the notion that man-made climate change is a real concern. But, last week, he softened that to a statement that he thinks the world is getting hotter, but “I don’t know that” and “I don’t know if it’s mostly caused by humans.” Moral courage!

    Of course, we know what’s motivating Mr. Romney’s sudden lack of conviction. According to Public Policy Polling, only 21 percent of Republican voters in Iowa believe in global warming (and only 35 percent believe in evolution). Within the G.O.P., willful ignorance has become a litmus test for candidates, one that Mr. Romney is determined to pass at all costs.

    So it’s now highly likely that the presidential candidate of one of our two major political parties will either be a man who believes what he wants to believe, even in the teeth of scientific evidence, or a man who pretends to believe whatever he thinks the party’s base wants him to believe.

    And the deepening anti-intellectualism of the political right, both within and beyond the G.O.P., extends far beyond the issue of climate change.

    Lately, for example, The Wall Street Journal’s editorial page has gone beyond its long-term preference for the economic ideas of “charlatans and cranks” — as one of former President George W. Bush’s chief economic advisers famously put it — to a general denigration of hard thinking about matters economic. Pay no attention to “fancy theories” that conflict with “common sense,” the Journal tells us. Because why should anyone imagine that you need more than gut feelings to analyze things like financial crises and recessions?

    Now, we don’t know who will win next year’s presidential election. But the odds are that one of these years the world’s greatest nation will find itself ruled by a party that is aggressively anti-science, indeed anti-knowledge. And, in a time of severe challenges — environmental, economic, and more — that’s a terrifying prospect.
  • jhale667
    DIAMOND STATUS
    • Aug 2004
    • 20929

    #2
    Not down with the "Jesus take the wheel" approach ...

    Batshit Bachmann and Perry are the same kind of kooks that say things like the fossil record was created by Satan to trick us into thinking the world is older than 5,000 years, and oh yeah, carbon dating is a tool of Satan...basically anything that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the bible is full of errors is "of Satan". So any fact-checker anywhere is working for Satan, effectively...


    For Perry to say the theory of evolution "has some gaps in it" (as if the creation story DOESN'T???) and to attempt to continue the false assertion that man-made climate-change is a "hoax" shows what an idiot he is, much like he and Bachmann saying the hurricane and earthquake was "god's wrath". If they can't wrap their feeble minds around it, must be divine in nature...IDIOTS.


    In short, NEITHER of them are qualified to lead the country, as they are clearly not capable of rational, objective thought. Anti-knowledge, anti-science = anti - AMERICAN. Bottom line.
    Originally posted by conmee
    If anyone even thinks about deleting the Muff Thread they are banned.... no questions asked.

    That is all.

    Icon.
    Originally posted by GO-SPURS-GO
    I've seen prominent hypocrite liberal on this site Jhale667


    Originally posted by Isaac R.
    Then it's really true??:eek:

    The Muff Thread is really just GONE ???

    OMFG...who in their right mind...???
    Originally posted by eddie78
    I was wrong about you, brother. You're good.

    Comment

    • FORD
      ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

      • Jan 2004
      • 58781

      #3
      Fascism has always been anti-intellecual by nature, because it requires a dumbed down, compliant population to be successful.

      The fact that someone like Chimp or Palin could actually get the votes of millions, is evidence that it's working.
      Eat Us And Smile

      Cenk For America 2024!!

      Justice Democrats


      "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

      Comment

      • Seshmeister
        ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

        • Oct 2003
        • 35192

        #4
        Remember these people may not be president(yet) but they are in powerful positions already.

        Even ignoring the stupidity, the US economy is built on science and the advantage that brings over competitors.

        What about the reliance on technology by the military for their wars and backhand deals with the military industrial complex?

        Comment

        • Seshmeister
          ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

          • Oct 2003
          • 35192

          #5
          Originally posted by FORD
          Fascism has always been anti-intellecual by nature, because it requires a dumbed down, compliant population to be successful.
          That's what has in the past allowed it to be ultimately defeated whether it be the crap military equipment of Japan or the purges of Jewish scientists from the German war effort preventing them getting a nuke.

          Comment

          • Nitro Express
            DIAMOND STATUS
            • Aug 2004
            • 32797

            #6
            I can remember when both Democrat and Republican candidates were equally religious. Not much difference between the two until the 90's. Then you had candidates pandering to the evangelical wackos on the right. It seems in the mid 80's and previous people just cared about the freedom of religion and left it at that. I hear more religious arguing now than when I was a kid. People seemed more concerned about policy than religion.
            No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

            Comment

            • Va Beach VH Fan
              ROTH ARMY FOUNDER
              • Dec 2003
              • 17913

              #7
              Originally posted by Nitro Express
              I hear more religious arguing now than when I was a kid.
              I would attribute that to more people opening their fucking eyes, using their fucking common sense, and stop believing in fucking fairy tales, not to mention wasting their time and hard-earned money to nothing more than scam artists posing as "holy men".....
              Eat Us And Smile - The Originals

              "I have a very belligerent enthusiasm or an enthusiastic belligerence. I’m an intellectual slut." - David Lee Roth

              "We are part of the, not just the culture, but the geography. Van Halen music goes along with like fries with the burger." - David Lee Roth

              Comment

              • Seshmeister
                ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

                • Oct 2003
                • 35192

                #8
                Meanwhile I get the impression that there are far more fundamentalists and born agains than there used to be.

                Taking the bible literally is quite a new thing, in say the 19th century very few people did.

                Comment

                • Nitro Express
                  DIAMOND STATUS
                  • Aug 2004
                  • 32797

                  #9
                  The United States is less religious now than anytime in it's history. So I don't buy that religion is the reason the country has declined. Why the country has declined is broken homes and laziness. Also, people think they are owed something rather than going out and earning it. If I can thumb one thing it's the lack of decent parenting. People don't want to raise their kids anymore they want the government to do it for them. So the schools have become day care centers instead of educational institutions. Then the government wants to make everything fair and lowers the standards. I blame the parents for most of it. The school board goes to shit as soon as the parents stop watching it and being involved. When the home and education goes to shit, the nation goes to shit.

                  If anything, sometimes the discipline of a religious structure makes a better home and school environment. Some of the best universities in the world are ran by church's. I don't think having Fordham or Norte Dame on your resume is going to hurt you in the job market. I think you are better off being the authority yourself instead of turning that over to the church but a church wants money and longevity. They want strong families and money makers. They benefit from that if they can keep the next generation in the church. A lot of scientists are active in religion and might have even graduated from a religious school.
                  No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

                  Comment

                  • jhale667
                    DIAMOND STATUS
                    • Aug 2004
                    • 20929

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Seshmeister
                    Meanwhile I get the impression that there are far more fundamentalists and born agains than there used to be.

                    Taking the bible literally is quite a new thing, in say the 19th century very few people did.
                    No, they've just discovered the interwebs. They're fucking dinosaurs...dying out. But now that they're facing extinction, they're making a last-ditch effort to force their ideology on the sane people....
                    Originally posted by conmee
                    If anyone even thinks about deleting the Muff Thread they are banned.... no questions asked.

                    That is all.

                    Icon.
                    Originally posted by GO-SPURS-GO
                    I've seen prominent hypocrite liberal on this site Jhale667


                    Originally posted by Isaac R.
                    Then it's really true??:eek:

                    The Muff Thread is really just GONE ???

                    OMFG...who in their right mind...???
                    Originally posted by eddie78
                    I was wrong about you, brother. You're good.

                    Comment

                    • Nitro Express
                      DIAMOND STATUS
                      • Aug 2004
                      • 32797

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Seshmeister
                      Meanwhile I get the impression that there are far more fundamentalists and born agains than there used to be.

                      Taking the bible literally is quite a new thing, in say the 19th century very few people did.
                      I think very few religious people actually take the bible literally. It really is a social thing more than a belief thing. Most people break the church rules. They basically go to church to keep the family happy or it benefits them somehow. Some people just like the social aspect of it.

                      I don't think there are anymore fundamentalists than there used to be. Traditional church's in the US were losing members so new super church's popped up. They put on a more of a show, probably have day care and a school, an espresso bar, and lot of activities for the kids, and several rock bands. Modern church has guitars and drums with Sarah Palin foaming at the mouth.
                      No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

                      Comment

                      • Nitro Express
                        DIAMOND STATUS
                        • Aug 2004
                        • 32797

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Va Beach VH Fan
                        I would attribute that to more people opening their fucking eyes, using their fucking common sense, and stop believing in fucking fairy tales, not to mention wasting their time and hard-earned money to nothing more than scam artists posing as "holy men".....
                        It boils down to what does the church do for me? My parents always said it was a great way to raise kids. My dad was gone all the time and my mom could unload us on the church program basically. But in the 70's that was the social norm. All our neighbors went to church. You saw everyone dressed up going to their church of choice.

                        Now you don't so much but the one thing I do miss is the discipline. It was a fairy tale but there was something to not being a slob either.
                        No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

                        Comment

                        • FORD
                          ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

                          • Jan 2004
                          • 58781

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Nitro Express
                          I can remember when both Democrat and Republican candidates were equally religious. Not much difference between the two until the 90's. Then you had candidates pandering to the evangelical wackos on the right. It seems in the mid 80's and previous people just cared about the freedom of religion and left it at that. I hear more religious arguing now than when I was a kid. People seemed more concerned about policy than religion.
                          You're off by a decade & a half or so.....
                          The religious reich came about in the late 1970's and had a lot to do with putting the senile B-movie actor & former GE corporate spokesman Ronald Reagan in the White House. Which of course began the 30 year toilet spiral of this country.
                          Ironically, some of these religious wackjobs like Falwell & Robertson actually backed Jimmy Carter in the 1976 election. When Carter actually had the balls to ACT like a Christian while in office, it was more than they could stand. They didn't want someone who would actually follow JC's teachings, they wanted to move toward a dominionist theocratic fascist state.
                          Eat Us And Smile

                          Cenk For America 2024!!

                          Justice Democrats


                          "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

                          Comment

                          • Nitro Express
                            DIAMOND STATUS
                            • Aug 2004
                            • 32797

                            #14
                            I would say Jimmy Carter was more religious than Ronald Reagan. With Jimmy you knew it was the real deal with Reagan I just can't see him piling the family in the station wagon and heading to church in Beverly Hills.

                            The thing is religion has been a successful organizational node for thousands of years. It took Mohammed to unify the tribes of the middle east and once they were unified they became quite advanced for their time. Religion can either advance society or hold it back. Basically it unifies people under an authoritative group and it's up to that group weather it's a good or bad thing.

                            All I know is a well organized, unified group of religious people will roll an unorganized group of atheists every time. It's not so much what an individual thinks as who controls the most individuals in the showdown.
                            Last edited by Nitro Express; 08-30-2011, 04:05 PM.
                            No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

                            Comment

                            • ODShowtime
                              ROCKSTAR

                              • Jun 2004
                              • 5812

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Seshmeister
                              odds are that one of these years the world’s greatest nation will find itself ruled by a party that is aggressively anti-science, indeed anti-knowledge. And, in a time of severe challenges — environmental, economic, and more — that’s a terrifying prospect.
                              This is a great articulation of something that is very troubling to me.
                              gnaw on it

                              Comment

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