Pirates' Chatter 2005

[High Life Man]

Leyland won't come back.

I love our new owner. He also bought into our hockey team and has been rumored to be pumping a couple of mil into local theater companies and other arts related groups.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Originally posted by POJO_Risin
All that being said...

there are Leyland rumblings...

Nope, that ain't happening...

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05122/497721.stm

Cook: Leyland, Pirates not a match
Monday, May 02, 2005

By Ron Cook, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

It almost seemed like piling on to bring up the subject with Lloyd McClendon after yet another hideous Pirates loss. It's not as if he doesn't have enough worries with a team that can't hit, can't hit for power, can't run, can't play defense, has a combined 3-6 record and 6.06 earned-run average from the two pitchers at the front of its rotation and is absolutely dreadful at home.

But it was there in black and white in Sports Illustrated this week.

Former Pirates manager Jim Leyland, who has the itch to manage again, is the logical successor if Pittsburgh continues to slip and Lloyd McClendon is fired.

That's all McClendon needs about now, Leyland hovering like some kind of vulture.

Not that Leyland would.

"I don't want Lloyd McClendon's job," Leyland said yesterday before the Pirates got another abysmal performance from alleged ace Oliver Perez in an 8-3 loss to the San Francisco Giants that left them with the worst home record (3-9) in the National League.

"Lloyd is my friend."

It was Leyland who stopped by McClendon's office early yesterday, just to tell him to keep his chin up. That's not the first time that's happened. Leyland did it a couple of weeks ago after the St. Louis Cardinals -- who employ him as a scout -- pounded the Pirates, 11-1 and 7-1, on consecutive nights at PNC Park.

"I've been there," Leyland said. "Being the manager can be a lonely job. Your coaches are there, but it's really just you after the losses. It's tough."

Leyland managed McClendon a lifetime ago, back in the days when the Pirates actually were a competitive team. He taught McClendon much of what he knows about baseball. McClendon called him "a mentor, a confidant, a father figure, even though he's not nearly old enough to be my father."

"Lloyd McClendon is a good manager," Leyland said. "I've been very impressed. I've never seen him not prepared. I've never seen him not ready for a situation."

Even if Leyland and McClendon weren't so close, there's no chance Leyland would want to manage the Pirates again, at least not under Kevin McClatchy's ownership group. It's true, Leyland does have some interest in getting back into a dugout. Sports Illustrated had that part right. Leyland tried to get the Philadelphia job after last season and probably was as shocked as the rest of us that the Phillies decided to go with Charlie Manuel.

But working for McClatchy again?

There's just no way.

Leyland tried that for one season, 1996. He said publicly he was going to stay with the Pirates for the long haul, then quickly changed his mind after new owner McClatchy reneged on his pledge to increase the team's payroll and, instead, cut it way back. It turned out to be the best move Leyland ever made. He won the World Series with the Florida Marlins in 1997. The Pirates haven't had a winning season since.

"Contrary to what some people think, there was no hard feelings," Leyland said. "I understood what Kevin did. He took a look at his books and did what he had to do.

"But does anyone really think I wanted to leave here? I live here. I was sleeping in my own bed every night. Even during the season, I was only gone two weeks out of every month. How do you beat that?

"I just didn't want to start over again. I did that once here."

That was back in the late 1980s. Leyland took over a Pirates team that lost 104 games in 1985 and led it to three consecutive division titles in the early 1990s. That earned him respect as one of the game's great managers. The championship with the Marlins merely cemented his reputation.

"If Jim Leyland wanted my job, I'd step aside in a minute," McClendon said. "I'd work for him any day. That's how much respect I have for him."

That's funny, Cardinals manager Tony La Russa, who is headed toward the Hall of Fame, has often said the same thing about Leyland.

But as good as Leyland is, he's not good enough to win with the Pirates. This is America. You get what you pay for. McClatchy's ownership group, depending on whom you believe, can't or isn't willing to pay enough.

"People talk about how easy it is to manage when there aren't any expectations," Leyland said, speaking in general now and not specifically about the Pirates. "But, as a competitor, you want to have a chance to win. It's no fun going to the park every night knowing everything has to go right for you just to have a chance to win a game."

That's why Leyland won't be joining the Pirates any time soon.

Someone might replace McClendon at the end of the season, if not sooner, if the Pirates continue to play horrible baseball.

It won't be Leyland.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

The top hitting prospects in AAA Indianapois, hopefully in Pittsburgh sometime this year....

Eldred is a big 'ol cornfed motherfucker.... I watched Doumit here a couple of weeks ago, he hit HR's FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE PLATE...

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05123/498180.stm

Hitting cavalry?

The team announced last night it will promote first baseman Brad Eldred, its top power-hitting prospect, to Class AAA Indianapolis today. He hit two more home runs last night, giving him 13 in 21 games with Class AA Altoona. That home run total is the most in professional baseball. In 60 Class AA games, Eldred has homered 30 times.

The team also is trying out catcher Ryan Doumit in right field and first base in Indianapolis. Management does not feel Doumit is ready to catch in the majors, but it is confident he could hit in Pittsburgh now. He is batting .344 with six home runs and 18 RBIs.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Do my eyes deceive me, or are the Buccos waking the fuck up ??

Three in a row, and have a better record than the Yankees....

Bay is getting hot (thanks for releasing him), and hit a MONSTER shot to center field....

Aaah, what am I saying, they'll tank it eventually....

[Va Beach VH Fan]

STOP THE PRESSES !!!!

Buccos at .500 after a 18-2 drubbing of the D-Rays....

Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday at the Evil Empire !!!!

[POJO_Risin]

Dude...when's the last time Pittsburgh and Cleveland were BOTH at .500!!!!!

Cleveland...30-30

Pittsburgh...30-30...

and they'll sweep NY...who blows ass...

[POJO_Risin]

Top of the 13th...still 5-5...

[POJO_Risin]

Who did Cleveland get for Lawton?

Which shit heal?...

[POJO_Risin]

Alex Gonzalez...2 run homer...

DRays are up 7-5...

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Originally posted by POJO_Risin
Who did Cleveland get for Lawton?

Which shit heal?...

Arthur Rhodes...

You're welcome...

They're going to trade Lawton before the deadline, he ain't worth 8 million a year, and they won't sign him long term, especially since he's a shitty outfielder and baserunner....

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Unfuckingbelievable... I think this is going to give either Zach Duke or Ian Snell some good opportunities to show their stuff....

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05180/530071.stm

Perez out after toe broken
Left-hander put on DL, might miss six weeks
Wednesday, June 29, 2005

By Dejan Kovacevic, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

WASHINGTON -- The Pirates are unhappy with Oliver Perez, but not unhappy enough to kick something.

Perez, the talented left-hander expected to be the staff ace this season, was placed on the 15-day disabled list yesterday after his left big toe was broken while kicking a clubhouse laundry cart Sunday in St. Louis. He has three small fractures in the toe and is expected to miss a month, possibly six weeks.

He did not accompany the team to Washington, so it is not known precisely what prompted his action. Presumably, it was in frustration after allowing four runs in six innings of what turned out to be a 5-4 Pirates victory.

Whatever the explanation turns out to be, it is safe to say management will find it unsatisfactory.

"It's unacceptable behavior," general manager Dave Littlefield said. "It's immature and unprofessional. Obviously, it's setting him back personally. From a team standpoint, it's selfish. To do something like this is ... selfish and immature."

He did not rule out a fine for Perez but said that had not been discussed yet.

"Not only does he let himself down, but he also lets his team down," manager Lloyd McClendon said. "I'm sure he feels horrible about it. But it hurts the club not having him in there, and I wish he had thought about that when he did it."

To replace Perez, the Pirates promoted smooth-hitting outfielder Nate McLouth from Class AAA Indianapolis, though his stay is expected to be short.

The team will promote a pitcher from Indianapolis by Saturday, which would have been Perez's next start, and revert to its standard 12-man staff. That almost surely will mean the return of McLouth, who, McClendon said, will not make it into the starting lineup this week.

It is not known which pitcher will be promoted, but the logical choice for a starter would be left-hander Zach Duke, the Pirates' top prospect. He is 12-3, the best record in all the minor leagues, with a 2.92 earned run average. His most recent start was four days ago, which means he would be plenty rested by Saturday.

Another possibility is freshly recalled right-hander Ian Snell, whose arm is built up to 120 pitches after going 9-2 at Indianapolis. If the Pirates choose Snell, they probably would bring up a reliever from Indianapolis rather than Duke, most likely Mark Corey or Mike Johnston.

"We wanted to give Lloyd an extra bat between now and the next time Oliver would have started," Littlefield said. "But we also want to stay with 12 pitchers, so we're going to get back to that. We just haven't decided how we're going to handle Saturday yet."

Perez's incident occurred during the game Sunday, shortly after he was removed, and McClendon did not learn of it until afterward. X-rays revealed the injury Sunday night, and he was sent to Pittsburgh.

His left big toe is critical to his pitching motion, McClendon said, because it is the only part of that foot that touches the ground in the final part of his follow-through.

Perez's season has provided one exasperation after another, particularly coming off an outstanding 2004 in which he had a 2.98 ERA and struck out 249 while going 12-10.

He was chosen to start opening day at PNC Park but lasted five-plus innings in a 9-2 loss to the Milwaukee Brewers. He lost three of his next four decisions, then was placed on hiatus for two weeks to address flawed mechanics. He rebounded for three consecutive victories and appeared to rediscover his form, then failed to top six innings in his final three outings before his injury.

Overall, Perez is 6-5 with a 6.16 ERA and 20 home runs allowed. He gave up 22 home runs all last season.

McClendon praised Perez not only for overcoming his poor start but also for his showing in St. Louis, where he allowed home runs to Reggie Sanders and Yadier Molina but limited the Cardinals to a 4-3 lead before his exit.

"I really thought he took a step forward there, the way he stood through the intensity of a close game and the heat," McClendon said. "It's really a shame. I really feel he was turning the corner. It's a tough break for us."

[Va Beach VH Fan]

So my son and I went to the Nats-Buccos on Wednesday night....

Got front row seats next to the ball girl on the 3rd base side....

Top of the 3rd, Nats up 1-0, the skies open up.... 2+ hours rain delay.... Spent it in the concourse talking with other Bucco fans, as well as watching these two drunk fucks hit on the Ice Cream Girl, who I must admit was fucking hot...

Rain stops, and on the 1st pitch Macowiak plants one in the 2nd deck....

But of course, they find a way to blow the game...

8th inning, Guillen smacks one down the 3rd base line and, of course, Macowiak boots it.... The ball rolls right to us and kicks to Jack Wilson...

Game doesn't end until 1AM, and we don't get back to the hotel room until 2AM....

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Wow...

Talk about starting a shitstorm... The blogs and message boards are flooded with speculation, premature that it is....

Of course, fans are taking it the next step and putting words in Cuban's mouth.... Meaning, all he did was just say that IF the team went up for sale, he would be interested....

Mcclatchy's group bought the Pirates in '95 for 85 million, so obviously they would make some serious money if they would ever sell, with the new ballpark....

Knowing my luck, they'll just keep pinching pennies....

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05197/538914.stm

Cuban interested if Pirates for sale

Mt. Lebanon native also amenable to joining current ownership group if asked

Saturday, July 16, 2005

By Paul Meyer, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

CHICAGO -- Billionaire and Mt. Lebanon native Mark Cuban said yesterday he would be interested in investigating buying the Pirates if they became available.

The flamboyant owner of the Dallas Mavericks of the NBA also said he would be amenable to joining the Pirates' current ownership group -- if asked -- if there were a risk of the baseball team leaving Pittsburgh.

Pirates owner Kevin McClatchy didn't return a phone call last night, but he did say in a statement, "There's no chance of the Pirates moving away, so it's really a nonissue."

Cuban made his comments at the Pirates' game against the Chicago Cubs at Wrigley Field, where he led the crowd in the traditional singing of "Take Me Out to the Ball Game" after the top of the seventh inning.

"It absolutely killed me to sing 'Root, root, root for the Cubbies,' " Cuban said. "I asked the broadcasters later if anybody had ever put in the other team."

Cuban also wore a Cubs jersey with his name on the back during the song, but he quickly reaffirmed his loyalty to the Pirates and Pittsburgh when he met with reporters after leaving the WGN broadcast booth.

"I'm a baseball fan," he said. "I'm a huge Pirates fan. I'm a Pittsburgh fan."

Cuban, who will be 47 July 31, was asked if he'd be interested in purchasing the Pirates.

"If they ever decided to sell, I'd definitely be interested in taking a look," Cuban said. "But I'm certainly not the type to be proactive about it because that's not fair to Kevin.

"They've done their best with the Pirates, getting the stadium built. I think the Pirates have a great young nucleus for the future."

Cuban, who made his fortune by selling his streaming video company, broadcast.com, to Yahoo in 1999, bought the Mavericks in 2000.

"I look at the Pirates kind of like the Mavericks," he said. "People didn't have a lot of expectations when I bought them. All of a sudden, the switch flipped and things have been going great ever since. That's because we had a great young nucleus, and I think the Pirates have that opportunity as well."

The small-revenue Pirates seem en route to their 13th consecutive losing season. Would Cuban -- if asked -- join their ownership group, presumably to supply a large infusion of cash?

"It's something I'd consider," he said. "Like I said, I'm a Pirate[s] fan. And if it ever got to the point where there was the risk of them being moved out of Pittsburgh, then, yeah, that's something I would consider.

"To me, it's important that [Pittsburgh has] our complement of [professional] teams."

Cuban plans to be in Pittsburgh Monday. He'll give a speech at a fund-raiser for St. Clair Hospital -- "I don't know about what yet," he said -- then he'll attend the Pirates game that night against Houston.

"Hopefully, we'll have a better showing," he said, referring to the Pirates' 11-1 loss yesterday.

Cuban plans to attend the game with his father, his brother and some high school friends. He's well aware that his attendance might spark speculation that he's going to buy the team.

"There was an article in [a Chicago] paper [yesterday] about me buying the Cubs," Cuban said. "You know, wherever I go, someone's going to speculate.

"I just want to go to the game [Monday], sit in center field and just eat hot dogs and drink beer."

Somebody asked Cuban if he could have already bought the Pirates if he just had the money he has paid in NBA fines over the years.

"No," he said, then added with a laugh, "but I could put a down payment down."

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Thought I'd pass this on...

Probably the best writeup I've read on the Pirates woes...

http://www.baseballfans.net/pirates/article.php?story=20050729101944736

What Went Wrong
Friday, July 29 2005 @ 01:19 PM CDT

By Wilbur Miller

Some of the discussions here recently led me to think about the reasons for the Pirates' plight over the past 13 years. Much of the discussion centers, of course, on bad decisions at the GM level, because as fans that's what we notice: trades, free agent signings and the like. When you're a Pirate fan, these moves can take on added significance, because they've been so bad most of the time. Most baseball fans probably don't even know what the Rule 5 draft is, but I'll bet virtually all more-than-casual Pirate fans do.

I don't think focusing entirely on player moves really gets to the heart of the problem, though. That's not just me, either. The St. Petersburg Times ran a series last March on what's wrong with the Devil Rays. The opening article focused on the owner, and started right off with comments from industry execs saying that when you have no success over a lengthy period, there has to be something wrong right at the top. The article made the point very firmly that chronic failure comes from upper management.

So if you want to look at what's caused the Pirates' soon-to-be 13-year losing streak, you can either look at the very different sets of bad decisions that were made under Cam Bonifay and Dave Littlefield, or you can focus on the larger problem of an ownership that's responsible for those situations. The mere fact that the team has had a consistently poor record under two very different GMs, by itself, should indicate that the real problem may lie higher up. Bonifay and Littlefield couldn't be much more different, in terms of both their personalities and their approach to baseball issues, yet the Pirates right now seem to be settling into the same, unsolvable pattern of chronic losing under Littlefield that existed under Bonifay.

I look at the issue as a series of problems that ownership caused or allowed to exist. With that in mind, here's a sort of undated timeline that attempts to explain what got the Pirates where they are today, and why the ownership is responsible for the team's problems:

1. Ownership failed to identify the team's needs in the GM's office. Bonifay wasn't qualified to run a team, or at least not this one. His experience was mainly as a scout and the Pirates, with their budgetary problems, needed somebody with strong business and organizational instincts. The result was, among other things, an organization that was staffed very poorly, especially the scouting and development areas. Until late in his tenure, Bonifay never really had a scouting director. His drafts were run, in some instances, by people who were obviously unqualified. He didn't settle on a capable, experienced scouting director until he brought in Mickey White to run the department in his last three years. Bonifay never had a competent development system, leading to poor coaching and bad decision-making in trying to develop prospects.

2. The scouting and development budget was totally inadequate until White took over. The Latin American scouting operation, once the best in the game, fell apart. The team also was forced to make signability picks in the draft, culminating in the ridiculous choice of Clint Johnston in the first round.

3. Bonifay had the right plan (build through the farm system with power bats and arms), but was incompetent at implementing it. He was hampered by a manager, Gene Lamont, who disliked rookies and hated playing them, leading to an inability to integrate young players into the major league team. Bonifay made numerous bad choices about veteran players, as he seemed to develop an increasing inability to decide whether he was rebuilding or trying to win right away. This problem may have stemmed in part from interference by ownership, which became paranoid about young players after the team's late-season collapse in 1998. This led to still further reluctance to follow the ostensible plan of building through young players, which was in fact the only viable option the Pirates had, and the only one they still have. Ownership failed to recognize Bonifay's shortcomings and allowed the team to lose all sense of direction.

4. In the wake of Bonifay's firing, the team went back to being cheapskates in the scouting and development areas. It abandoned the highly successful strategy pursued by White of targeting difficult-to-sign players in the later rounds and then signing them. It decided not to pursue top prospects in the international market, including the Dominican, a decision that has cut the team off from significant sources of talent and left it severely handicapped in comparison to other teams.

5. Financial mismanagement led to the disastrous decision to give away Aramis Ramirez. This had two devastating consequences. One, obviously, was the loss of the most precious commodity in baseball, the shortage of which is now by far and away the Pirates' single biggest problem: a young, middle-of-the-order hitter. The second consequence was the spin campaign—or to be more blunt, lying—about the reason for dumping Ramirez, as Littlefield spent extensive time telling the fans that the move was made to allow the team to bring in better players. Since then, the team's personnel moves have been influenced heavily by (often inaccurately) perceived fan reaction. The Pirates continue to believe that their fans don't want to see young players and prefer to see mediocre veterans. This is all a direct result of the team's lack of adequate financing and foolish decision to spend money on veterans in 2003 in the hopes of jumping into contention and increasing attendance.

6. Bonifay was replaced by a GM with firmly entrenched, unimaginative, traditionalist views, who lacks the analytical ability or inclination to search for ways to succeed with limited resources. Little is known about the reasons that went into Littlefield's hiring, but it shows an inability on the part of ownership to grasp the Pirates' need for innovative thinking. Given Littlefield's propensity for, and skill at, spin games, it also seems likely that his hiring had a great deal to do with his ability to tell ownership what it wanted to hear. Some rumors at the time held that any GM candidate who was honest enough to tell Kevin McClatchy that turning the team around would take time was quickly shown the door. As a result of this decision, the Pirates have made no attempt to find approaches that might work for a low-revenue team, and continue to employ the same personnel philosophies as teams like the Yankees, only without the money. Under Littlefield, the Pirates overvalue veterans and major league experience. This tendency is especially damaging to a franchise that can only afford veteran players whom no other team wants, thus consistently leaving it with bottom-of-the-barrel players. The scouting approach is rigidly skewed toward tools, especially speed, which is the least useful tool. The team's scouting approach, in contrast to more successful organizations, places little emphasis on performance, leading to terrible decisions like the one to let go of Chris Shelton. As a result, the team under Littlefield has had a series of poor drafts. The rigid adherence to traditional notions, like "pitching is 90% of the game," has led to bad approaches like trying to build the farm system almost entirely by accumulating young pitchers, baseball's most unreliable commodity. This approach has not succeeded for any other team in recent years that I've been able to identify. The overall management of the team shows almost no inclination toward analysis of any kind, and instead seems to rely entirely on clichés. In my view, this is an ownership problem, because the owners are not insisting that management strategy be based on principles or philosophies that can be shown analytically to be viable. There also is no accountability, as shown by Ed Creech's continued presence as scouting director despite bad drafting and a completely unproductive international scouting program. Like the team's scouts, ownership shows no inclination to use performance as a measure.

7. A perverted economic system built on subsidies from taxpayers and successful teams allows the ownership to make a healthy profit with a bad product. The Pirates' owners have found that they can make money simply by maintaining a minimal payroll and ensuring that the team remains just talented enough to win 70-75 games each year. There is no economic incentive for the team to take any approach that might lead to greater success. Ownership's goal of simply "not being TOO bad" informs nearly every decision the team makes, effectively eliminating any realistic chance of greater success.

This can all be pretty easily summed up. The Pirates started off with ownership that was unqualified from a business or leadership standpoint, and inadequately financed, to run a major league team. That evolved, through extensive bungling and eventually the disastrous Ramirez trade, into a cynical, greedy, small-minded ownership that has found a formula for producing healthy profit at the cost of a consistently bad product, with no motivation to improve the product. The team, like its ownership, has gone from directionless to a tight, unwavering focus on the wrong direction.

The evolution in the focus of the ownership has been reflected in the team's fortunes. Under Bonifay, the team at times truly was close to being a good team, especially in mid-1999 at the time of Jason Kendall's ankle injury. The lack of direction and some bad luck, however, caused the team to veer quickly toward disaster, culminating in the 100-loss season in 2001. Since then, the tighter focus on being just mediocre enough to keep attendance from collapsing has produced much more consistent, mediocre teams that seem unable to break out of the 72-win cycle. These are fundamentally ownership problems and won't be solved until there's a different ownership.

[POJO_Risin]

Who are you passing it along to?....lmfao....