The Army Boxing Thread

[gbranton]

Well, you've put me on the spot now!

I'd say it looks like this:

1) Ali
2) Jack Johnson
3) Holmes

If someone wanted to argue that Lennox Lewis deserves a spot up there, I wouldn't fight 'em to the death. Dull, certainly, but Lewis was very, very good.

I like your top two but I'd put Joe Frazier at number three. If Ali is #1, then Joe would have to be right up there with him based on the fact that they nearly fought to the death. That would kick Holmes down one notch.....or maybe two behind Foreman.

Lewis is not in the upper half of my ten, but surely he is in the lower half, the two guys (McCall and Rahman) who put his china on display were not top heavyweights.

[binnie]

I like your top two but I'd put Joe Frazier at number three. If Ali is #1, then Joe would have to be right up there with him based on the fact that they nearly fought to the death. That would kick Holmes down one notch.....or maybe two behind Foreman.

Lewis is not in the upper half of my ten, but surely he is in the lower half, the two guys (McCall and Rahman) who put his china on display were not top heavyweights.

That's the one problem with Lewis - those two defeats. It was clear that they happened because he took those guys too lightly, but it counts against him.

He was a stinker to watch, but he was a hell of a fighter. He had everything - brilliant jab. excellent power, great combinations and - crucially - timing and movement. What we have to factor in is how BIG he was. Lewis dwarfs most of the other ATG heavies and can more than match them for speed. Take emotion out of it, and that means he is more than a match for most of them.

[binnie]

Oh, and Frazier would struggle to make my top 10. Love Smokin' Joe to death and he had many great moments in the ring, but take away the Ali fights and his career isn't all that stella. He was also small for a heavy - put him in with most of the other ATG and he had problems.

That being said, I'd watch him over most fighters in the drop of a hat.

[binnie]

The one i would like to have seen would be the young George Foreman against the prime Mike Tyson.

You'd have to bet on Foreman. What makes me think that Tyson stands a good chance, however, is his speed and defence.

People underestimate those aspects of a prime Tyson - he was damn hard to hit. Also, he not only hit hard but he was fucking lightning fast and threw punches in bunches. Foreman would have had the edge in power, but he may have been swarmed.

The one I really want to see is Marciano-Frazier: two warriors of a similar size going at it. I can't think a better ATG match up.

[binnie]

Fuck it, why not?

My Top Ten heavies:

1) Ali
2) Jack Johnson (a genius of epic proportions)
3) Larry Holmes
4) Lennox Lewis
5) Joe Louis
6) Foreman
7) Tyson
8) Marciano
9) Sonny Liston
10) Gene Tuney

I've excluded the Klit brothers because they haven't retired yet. Dempsey was exciting and tough, but too crude to excel against the very best, IMO.

[vandeleur]

I hate top tens lol ... I've looked at yours and changed my mind a dozen times already, I struggle with the older era heavyweights ... I don't know them well enough though I am a fan of joe Louis and What he did for the sport .... Maybe we need a modern era top ten off you binnie

[binnie]

At what point are we defining 'modern era' as beginning?

[vandeleur]

Well that's a good question , we could have era's but I kinda meant Tunney , Johnson are hard to judge for me so I was thinking modern as Ali onwards ? Ones we have watched if that makes sense ... I might not be explaining myself very well

[Dave's Bitch]

Fuck it, why not?

My Top Ten heavies:

1) Ali
2) Jack Johnson (a genius of epic proportions)
3) Larry Holmes
4) Lennox Lewis
5) Joe Louis
6) Foreman
7) Tyson
8) Marciano
9) Sonny Liston
10) Gene Tuney

I've excluded the Klit brothers because they haven't retired yet. Dempsey was exciting and tough, but too crude to excel against the very best, IMO.

Great list,I love top 10's .Mine would be something like

1)Ali
2)Jack Johnson
3)Joe Louis
4)Larry Holmes
5)George Foreman
6)Mike Tyson
7)Joe Frazier
8)Sonny Liston
9)Gene Tunney
10)Ezzard Charles

Ask me next week and it may very well be different.I had a serious debate over a few spot's,mainly 9 and 10 as I had 5 guys left but only 2 spots (and a top 13 would be stupid ).I feel honourable mentions should go to Dempsey,Marciano and Sam Langford

[binnie]

Ok, post 1960 Top Ten Heavies:

1) Ali
2) Holmes
3) Lewis
4) Foreman
5) Tyson
6) Liston
7) Frazier
8) Holyfield
9) Floyd Patterson
10) Ken Norton

Once the Klit brothers retire they will mix that list up!

[vandeleur]

Against my better judgement , and with arguements that have more holes in them
Than a tramps vest
1.Ali
2.Holmes
3.Forman
4.Tyson
5.Holyfield
6.Lewis
7.Liston
8.Frasier
9.Norton
10a. Patterson ( but I wanna say bowe)

[vandeleur]

There cannot be a top ten heavyweights without a young Tyson not in the top 3 but I can't stop thinking of foreman destroying Frazier and norton . Damn u champions forever video

[vandeleur]

Whilst working this out and going thru who beat who .. A quote my dad said kept coming to mind about boxing ... It was about when Lewis beat Tyson my dad said ... Son am 60 so is Ali I could murder him in a fight now , doesn't make me the greatest of all time .................

[Seshmeister]

He always was a terrible cook your dad...

[binnie]

Great list,I love top 10's .Mine would be something like

1)Ali
2)Jack Johnson
3)Joe Louis
4)Larry Holmes
5)George Foreman
6)Mike Tyson
7)Joe Frazier
8)Sonny Liston
9)Gene Tunney
10)Ezzard Charles

Ask me next week and it may very well be different.I had a serious debate over a few spot's,mainly 9 and 10 as I had 5 guys left but only 2 spots (and a top 13 would be stupid ).I feel honourable mentions should go to Dempsey,Marciano and Sam Langford

Ezzard Charles may be the greatest light heavyweight ever - but at Heavyweight I'm intrigued by his inclusion on your list.