The Army Boxing Thread

[Dave's Bitch]

Any one heard about Mike Tyson's one man show on the Vegas strip?

[binnie]

Mike, please, don't do it.

That guy could have been the richest sports star ever to walk the earth but he blew it all - too much, too young, and surrounded by too many cunts.

You know what? I've always been of the view that at 6'7'' and 250lbs, plus and iron jaw, Vitali Klitschko would have actually been too much for Mike (5'11' and 220lbs at his best) or the Foremans, Fraziers of the world. I based that opinion purely on the physics of it. But having watched how easily Chisora - who is not particuarly skillful or powerful - tagged Vitali and pushed him back, I've completely changed my view. The 1988 version of Mike Tyson would have decimated Vitali.

The problem with heavyweight boxing is the the Klitschko brothers - they beat who's infront of them, which is all a champion can do. The problem is the parade of bums who fight them for a payday. Chisora is not even the best fighter in the UK, let alone Europe or the world, but he showed that you can have success against the big guys with some balls and some self belief.

[vandeleur]

tyson is a total enigma ... the tyson who destroyed and i mean destroyed every one to become the youngest heavy weight in history , the tyson who in the moment of his triumph over holmes was gracious enough to concede that holmes was a great champion and that in his prime tyson wouldnt stand a chance against him .... is a totally different character to the monster that was created by various people in the industry ...
The klitschko's will be defind by who they beat as all boxers are and there aint anyone around to test them ....
As for klitschko vs foreman....the foreman who fought frazier and knocked him around like a rag doll would have murdered klischko ... either of them ... his punching power would be to great.. as ali showed u had to move to beat foreman if you traded you ended up like frazier all spikey hair and looking like someone hit you with a shovel . i dont think either klitschko are mobile enough to stop foreman tearing them a new one ...
Tho i am loath to start the boxing aint what it was yawn yawn thing ... the klitschko's aint got the big names to hang on their belts.

But in truth I know shit all about boxing i didnt see chisora lasting the distance and i thought haye was quicker with a tripod than he was on sun morning lol

[binnie]

I'd like to say that all of the 'greats' would beat the Klits, but you have to factor in the size issue here.

These guys are 6'7'' and 250lbs. Foreman (6'3'' and 220lbs) never fought anyone like that. The Klits have the highest KO % in history too. They'd be a tough night's work for anyone. Watching Vitali recently, he's very hittable - so perhaps the great tacticians (I include Tyson there) would have overcome the huge natural disadvantages. Wladimir, however, has evolved into quite a (dull) beast - he uses his size very well against one of the great heavy weight jabs, and has God like power in both hands. Hate to say it, but many of our most beloved heavy's may have come unstuck against him - unless they could find that chin.

[vandeleur]

two points

Number one .... i am determined to avoid using the words ...klits .. big or very hittable as a joke or punchline lol
Number two ... first lesson of fight club dont compare era's its a head fuck and cant be proved either way .

BUT....Wlad ... ace jab backed by a monster right ...but he is defo beatable or has been ... if people can get inside or stop wlads jab ie sanders the first fight .. the left wasnt even a hard one , the second round left was kinder garden stuff . brewster lefts again .... tho I totally concede that wlad has improved and am defo not saying he is a not a great fighter, think am saying that i wanna watch him fight a great fighter .
I do think vitali it hittable but has the better chin ....

But i know what you mean about the size , well mainly weight thing the old " greats " are no match size wise for these monsters .

[gbranton]

You know what? I've always been of the view that at 6'7'' and 250lbs, plus and iron jaw, Vitali Klitschko would have actually been too much for Mike (5'11' and 220lbs at his best) or the Foremans, Fraziers of the world. I based that opinion purely on the physics of it. But having watched how easily Chisora - who is not particuarly skillful or powerful - tagged Vitali and pushed him back, I've completely changed my view. The 1988 version of Mike Tyson would have decimated Vitali.

If you want to play that game, I'll take the 2003 version of Vitali who fought Lennox Lewis.

[vandeleur]

This game should only be played in pubs whilst drunk

On the subjext of lewis , i never liked Lennox lewis .. .no idea why...
vitali was way ahead before the clash of heads and was always curious to why lewis didnt go for the rematch instead of hanging up his gloves .

[gbranton]

This game should only be played in pubs whilst drunk

Would love that.

I suppose Lennox's popularity suffered because boxing fans couldn't get over the idea of a former hairdresser and a mama's boy being the world champ.

[binnie]

There's a case to be made for Lennox Lewis being the best heavyweight ever - but he wasn't the greatest.

Why? He was too cautious - that's why the public never took to him. But would he have beaten the best of all time? Probably. The only time Lewis ever looked vulnerable was when didn't prepare properly through complaceny (Mccall, for example, and Rahman - both whooped in rematches).

Vitali was certainly getting the better of Lewis in 2003, and I think it made Lennox realize he was getting old. What we have to bear in mind, however, is that Vitali was a replacement fighter - Lennox had been training for someone else.

[binnie]

If you want to play that game, I'll take the 2003 version of Vitali who fought Lennox Lewis.

I love this game. I've said over and over that the sheer size of the Klits makes them hard work for anyone. But how would they deal with the speed, power and relentlessness of the 1988 Mike Tyson? God only knows.

The Klits are beating everyone that put in front of them - it's all that they can do. Most of those guys, however, don't come to win. Would these guys look quite so great in the face of someone who just won't back down, won't be intimidated, comes in in condition and throwing volumes of punches? I'd love to find out - but there's no one out there who's doing it.

Even one of the forgotten heavys of the '80s - Tony Tucker, Pinklon Thomas, Bonecrusher Smith - would be a step up for the Klits opposition (not saying those guys would win).

[Dave's Bitch]

Fantasy boxing is one of my favourite things too

I would love to see prime Tyson against the Klitscho's.I would say a slugger-brawler has the best chance against the Klitscho's.It would be extremely difficult to out box a guy who has all the advantages of hight and reach,Chisora kind of proved my point.Vitaly,who is known as a surgically precise punches had a little trouble hitting him.Chisora is a lot slower in the upper body than Tyson so regardless to his aggressive style Vitali managed to land a few significant single shots.Chisora also does not have awesome punching power and lightning fast hands.Tyson had great body movement,Awesome punching power and lightning fast hands.Tysons movement is significantly quicker than chisoras making him harder to hit,thus more effective.A lower Tyson would be able to bob and weave his way around that old walking stick of a jab right to the inside and wear down the body with the right hook to the body.Over a coulpe of rounds this would wear Vitali down and set up a trademark Tyson uppercut and combo's to the head.It would be a very good fight but a prime Tyson would win in my book.I would say a prime Joe Frazier would have more than a reasonable chance of beating the Klitscho's

[binnie]

I don't give a prime Joe Frazier much chance against the Klits, to be honest.

Smokin Joe was a great, great heavy - but he fought guys who were only just over 6' and barely weighed 215. If Foreman dwarfed him, the Klits might have just been too much. I believe that Frazier only stood 5'10''.

Sonny Liston, on the other hand, may have been difficult for the Klits - he had a great jab, and freakish reach for a (relatively - by today's standards) small big man.

The guy(s) who I think would have bested the Klits were:

Larry Holmes - big enough, fast enough, and precise enough to out box either guy

Lennox Lewis - ditto above, plus power when needed.

Ali - I'm not sure how, but I'm confident he'd have found a way. It would be points, however.

[Dave's Bitch]

I would love to see Holmes fight either of the Klitschko's

[Dave's Bitch]

In the case of Smokin Joe

Frazier has the style of offense to give Wlad trouble.Joe has a tendency to take some punishment to get to a point he is comfortable in,So Wlad would have to go for the kill early.Frazier has the stamina here so the longer the fight goes the better.I could see Joe taking the jab but getting to the inside and banging a few lefts to wear wlad down.Ultimately there are a couple of things that would decide the fight.If Frazier could take the punishment early,He would have to absorb a good deal in order to make use of his own tools against guys with 80" reach.Joe would have to bang Wlad when he is going for the clinche,or else Wlad smothers him all day negating his conditioning.If wlad were to use his feet he could give Joe some trouble but if Frazier could bully him into the ropes or corner he could erode away the body

If it was a 12 round fight it would be closer.A Fraizer KO or Klitschko decision.In a 15 i would say Frazier KO a good 8/10 times

[binnie]

It's hard for me to say it, but I suspect Wlad hits just as hard as Foreman (especially with his right hand).

If Smokin Joe turned pro today, I imagine he'd be a cruiserweight.