The Army Boxing Thread

[TFM_Dale]

Holmes or Foreman would have been fun for the Bitchkos. Hell, at 40 they could have given them hell. I don't buy the Bitchko's being dominant, they just came along during a very lame time in heavyweight boxing. 100% not their faults, but I don't believe for a second that they belong in any all time greats discussion.

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[DavidLeeNatra]

Holmes or Foreman would have been fun for the Bitchkos. Hell, at 40 they could have given them hell. I don't buy the Bitchko's being dominant, they just came along during a very lame time in heavyweight boxing. 100% not their faults, but I don't believe for a second that they belong in any all time greats discussion.

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[binnie]

Well, we'll never know.

But I think we have to bear in mind the sheer size of these guys - Foreman would be small by the standards of today's heavyweights. That poses problems in terms of landing shots and so on.

I see Holmes outboxing either Klit - but Foreman trying to slug his way through? I don't think it's a foregone conclusion.......

[gbranton]

Larry Holmes had the best jab of any heavyweight that I can ever recall. That alone would give him a chance against any heavyweight who ever lived. It's too bad young boxers don't take a page from Holmes and work on their jabs, I'm so tired of seeing every young guy now thinking he's Roy Jones Jr (and nobody is) and holding that lead hand down around his waist. Roy ruined the fundamentals of an entire generation of (delusional) boxers who think they can could have carried his jock when he was in his prime.

[jhale667]

Larry Holmes had the best jab of any heavyweight that I can ever recall. That alone would give him a chance against any heavyweight who ever lived. It's too bad young boxers don't take a page from Holmes and work on their jabs, I'm so tired of seeing every young guy now thinking he's Roy Jones Jr (and nobody is) and holding that lead hand down around his waist. Roy ruined the fundamentals of an entire generation of (delusional) boxers who think they can could have carried his jock when he was in his prime.

Roy didn't ruin their fundamentals. He had a jab if he wanted to use it, but didn't really need to in his prime. It's younger fighter's arrogance thinking they're that much of a bad ass to start with that causes them to overlook the fundamentals (and their trainers not yelling at them for doing so); you can't fault Roy for being talented.

[vandeleur]

Boente the klitschko's manager is saying at some point wlad may still fight chisora .... pretty much shows the heavy weight division is starting to dry up with any opponents

[vandeleur]

Roy jones wasnt just talented he was phenomemally fast .... no matter how talented a young boxer is , you keep your hands down you better be fast .

[gbranton]

Roy didn't ruin their fundamentals. He had a jab if he wanted to use it, but didn't really need to in his prime. It's younger fighter's arrogance thinking they're that much of a bad ass to start with that causes them to overlook the fundamentals (and their trainers not yelling at them for doing so); you can't fault Roy for being talented.

I'm not faulting him, I'm not saying Roy stopped by each fighter's locker room and told them to box like him. I'm just saying I've seen a lot of fighters who think they can get away with trying to box like Roy and only Roy Jones Jr could get away with that style. You are correct in his prime he didn't need to jab in a conventional style, he didn't need defense, he just needed his superhuman reflexes and power. My friends and I had viewing parties for most of his fights here at my house back in the day, we were all fans. He was spectacular to watch and it influenced a generation of young fighters who need to be told they ain't him and then shown film of Larry Holmes. Sadly now that his reflexes have slipped to that of a mere mortal, he is paying the price for being fundamentally flawed.

[jhale667]

I'm not faulting him, I'm not saying Roy stopped by each fighter's locker room and told them to box like him. I'm just saying I've seen a lot of fighters who think they can get away with trying to box like Roy and only Roy Jones Jr could get away with that style. You are correct in his prime he didn't need to jab in a conventional style, he didn't need defense, he just needed his superhuman reflexes and power. My friends and I had viewing parties for most of his fights here at my house back in the day, we were all fans. He was spectacular to watch and it influenced a generation of young fighters who need to be told they ain't him and then shown film of Larry Holmes. Sadly now that his reflexes have slipped to that of a mere mortal, he is paying the price for being fundamentally flawed.

I hear ya. You nailed it...they need to be TOLD they ain't him, because they clearly have an inflated sense of self in regard to their abilities...NO ONE else I can think of is/was as quick and powerful as Roy in his prime. For them to even think they are is arrogant, because that sh*t ain't at all normal, and usually only comes around once a generation... But I would again fault their trainers for not b*tch-slapping them when they see them trying to pull that off in training!!

[DavidLeeNatra]

[binnie]

Damn shame about Roy.

There's a case to be made for him being the GOAT, but we'll never know because the 'obvious' big fights were never made (for whatever reasons):

Nigel Benn, Chris Eubank or Steve Collins at 168lbs (Eubank might have posed some problems - as much as I like Benn, his would have been a puncher's chance at best).
Michaelowski at 175 (that guy was very, very good. But I suspect he'd have been too orthodox to pose Roy any problems).

Roy should have stopped after he won at heavy. Getting KO'd by Johnson/Tarver tainted his legacy, even if we all know it's because his body was ruined by losing so much weight.

[vandeleur]

I wouldnt argue if someone said he was the best p4p ever .... .there are decent arguments to be had but his name would be right in there .....

[gbranton]

Damn shame about Roy.

There's a case to be made for him being the GOAT, but we'll never know because the 'obvious' big fights were never made (for whatever reasons):

Nigel Benn, Chris Eubank or Steve Collins at 168lbs (Eubank might have posed some problems - as much as I like Benn, his would have been a puncher's chance at best).
Michaelowski at 175 (that guy was very, very good. But I suspect he'd have been too orthodox to pose Roy any problems).

Roy should have stopped after he won at heavy. Getting KO'd by Johnson/Tarver tainted his legacy, even if we all know it's because his body was ruined by losing so much weight.

He is the only boxer in history to start his career as a light middleweight (154 lbs), and go on to win a heavyweight title. Only Jones and Bob Fitzsimmons ever won both titles at middleweight and heavyweight, Fitzsimmons did it in 1896.

He could have fought almost anybody in any weight class and beaten them the night he beat Montel Williams. I've never seen anyone that I can recall who was as electrifying in the ring. But his legacy is damaged because he didn't walk away after the Ruiz fight and we probably haven't seen the worst of it yet because Roy, whom I thought would never have problem with money owes the IRS $3.5M.

Benn would have been a boring fight but with his matador-like skills, one could would have won easily in a decision with Benn stalking but never connecting.

Eubank or Collins would have been relatively easy fights for Roy.

I think Roy could have frustrated the hell out of Michaelowski and eventually land enough good shots to win the fight easily.

[jhale667]

I also think Roy is in the running for GOAT... so he's had a few losses, so did Ali...

[gbranton]

I also think Roy is in the running for GOAT... so he's had a few losses, so did Ali...

Yeah but Ali didn't get stretched out every time he stepped in the ring either.