Cleveland Sports Chatter

[damngoodtimes]

yeah, I'm not interested in dumping Mangini, for another mid-level questionable guy. It would need to be for somebody with a ring.

oh well, for the first time in a long time, I feel like the guy in charge (Holmgren) is better suited to make this decision than me, as Joe Fan. I feel like I can just trust Holmgren and let him have a run at it. I like that it's a long-term contract and I think much patience is in order. (although I doubt many of my fellow Browns fans will have much)

[POJO_Risin]

Here's the thing though..Lerner has to get his head out of his ass. Pops hired Carmen Policy, who was one of the best executives in football...and he couldn't do a damn thing...

Holmgren has always been a coach, and was GM for awhile, but couldn't handle both...so he's most definately an unknown in his current capacity...that's why I almost wonder if he should be the coach...and not the pres..

[Unchainme]

Here's the thing though..Lerner has to get his head out of his ass. Pops hired Carmen Policy, who was one of the best executives in football...and he couldn't do a damn thing...

Holmgren has always been a coach, and was GM for awhile, but couldn't handle both...so he's most definately an unknown in his current capacity...that's why I almost wonder if he should be the coach...and not the pres..

Easier said then done. Bunch of Browns fans have insisted the he either sells at least half the team to someone who at the very least is willing to put some effort into it and not do it half-assed while prefering to go see his Soccer team



Also, lookie who made the cover of SI AGAIN. Yeah, he really needs to go to NYC to get more exposure . You been noticing the Tsing Tao ads under the baskets? I got a feeling that a lot of the Cavs games are being shown in China at the moment.

[damngoodtimes]

Bunch of Browns fans have insisted the he either sells at least half the team to someone who at the very least is willing to put some effort into it and not do it half-assed while prefering to go see his Soccer team.

I know I'm one of them, but I say FUCK the "Bunch of Browns fans"!!!

One of Lerner's problems is that he listens to these fuckin' morons too damn much. It's made him very quick at the trigger finger, when the team needs some CUNTSISTENCY. He's got fuckin' Jim Brown and fuckin' Bernie Kosar in his ear all the damn time. Listen, I get it, these two guys are my heroes, too, but that doesn't mean they should have a say in running the organization.

He's finally gotten things right by giving a football man complete control over the football operations. Now, the first thing Holmgren needs to do, is not necessarily to fire Mangini, but to fire Brown and Kosar. Listen, if those guys will gracefully go over to the promotions/PR side of the house, that's fine. But they need to shut the fuck up and let Holmgren and whomever he hires do their damn jobs.

One of the reasons these two are so damn revered is that there has been nobody in 20 years worthy of hero status, or even keeping the fuckin' jersey when they leave.

And the issue with Lerner isn't that he's not spending ENOUGH time on the team, he's spending TOO MUCH fuckin' time on the team. He has deep pockets and wants the team to win. Now, he just needs to sign the checks and leave the rest up to Holmgren.

I read more petty comments on this fuckin' interweb about Lerner not being at all the games or caring more about his soccer team. Blah, blah, fuckin' blah! These ass-hats want him to sell the team. Well, shitbirds, which fuckin' one of you wants to buy it. You've got an owner with very deep pockets who grew up a Browns fan; you should be fuckin' thrilled. He sells the team, I'd say the odds are about 9 out of 10 it's either to someone who won't spend as much or someone who wants to move the team.

The best owners are the ones who write the checks and let their people do their jobs!!!

Lerner has been unable to hire a good, experienced front office leader UNTIL NOW. Policy was the last one they had, and Daddy didn't give him enough control.

[twonabomber]

You been noticing the Tsing Tao ads under the baskets? I got a feeling that a lot of the Cavs games are being shown in China at the moment.

you see the article in the PD a couple weeks ago? the Tsing Tao guy is buying a 15% stake in the Cavs, and 34 Cavs games are being broadcast on chinky teevee. the Q is selling Tsing Tao also, not sure if it's on tap or not.

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2009/12/chinese_investor_kenny_huang_s.html

[POJO_Risin]

I wonder what the upside to this is...if there is going to be some sort of chinese hoops pipeline to the Cavs now...or if the Cavs even want that. Obviously the marketing money could be huge...

[POJO_Risin]

As far as Lerner goes, I know Al Lerner always said that he had deep pockets, and was frustrated that a cap held him back...I'm not sure about his kid...but obviously...the deep pockets remain.

I don't know how much I'd blame Kosar and JBrown for their input. I'd watch Kosar, because his deal has always been to be in some sort of owner/player personel role. Of course, he's never really held anything of the sort anywhere...so that says something. Jim Brown has always talked out of his ass...

The best owners always have a system in place to hire the best people, from upper management, to coaches. It took the Rooneys 40 years to figure it out, and it really took hiring Noll to do it. Was it lucky? Perhaps. They had offered the job to Paterno, and he likely would have been a good hire as well. From that point on, with Noll, who hired an incredible coaching staff then...and even after his glory days (Remember, Noll begat Dungy, who begat Tomlin), the Steelers have been a rock within.

The Browns had that with Modell...seemingly good hires more often than not. You can hammer the Browns for the BeliDick hire, and I get that, but you wonder what would have happened if Modell was more focused on winning than moving. Belicheat tried to make that team his, cutting Bernie, and you do have to wonder what he would have done without the move to Baltimore. Remember, he led the Browns to an 11-5 record the year after Kosar left. His record sucked during the last year in Cleveland (5-11), but what coach in their right mind could have won during that season. Of course, Beliprick was about as surly and shitheaded as any coach could be back then (he is now to, but wins). Obviously, Belishit works well with Kraft...and look what happened.

The hire that confounded me was Chris Palmer, but he was the flavor of the month. They had interviewed Brian Billick, Art Shell and Gary Kubiak, as well as Chris Palmer.

Holmgren is the right step...I think...but the key is getting their arrows aligned. What I worry about with Mangini is that he may not fit with Holmgren. If they don't...it won't work...

So we shall see...

[damngoodtimes]

my problem with Jim Brown is that he's on the payroll, a member of the front office and he comes out and says PUBLICLY that he thinks Mangini deserves another year. he's already undercutting Holmgren before the guy even starts.

Ultimately, my point is that I believe that I can TRUST Holmgren to make the right decision. If he likes what he is seeing with Mangini, then keep him. If not, let him go. Ultimately, though, it is now Holmgren's (and only his) decision to make. Which is a step in the right direction.

and, yes, I think until Modell pulled out the rug from under everybody, Belicheck had that team going in the right direction. they lost like 6 or 7 in a row after the move was announced in 95, before winning that last home game.

[POJO_Risin]

Well...if there's anyone who won't listen to Jim Brown, it's Holmgren, who's about as crotchety as it gets.

It will be interesting to see in what direction Holmgren moves with regards to his front office. Rumors are abound that Reggie McKenzie and John Schneider (co-directors of football operations for Green Bay), Lake Dawson (director of pro personnel for the Titans) and Will Lewis (director of player personnel in Seattle) are the top four candidates. I think Ron Wolf may be considered as well, since he wants to get in the game. All of those guys have a history with Holmgren, and would form a formidable team.

I think there are three scenarios for the coaching situation, in order of likelihood...

1. Mangini for a year, not successful, fired and Gruden takes over.
2. Steve Mariucci--
3. Mangini, and he's successful

Now I know there are a lot of interesting thought on Mooch...but I say this. When he was in San Fran, under a solid administrative structure...they won...a lot. His first two years were with Steve Young...then he retired, and the niners sucked for two years. Mooch overhauled the team and won in his last two years there.

In Detroit, Mooch was handcuffed by fucking moron Millen...and it's pretty common knowledge that Millen went against everything Mooch and the coaching staff said. For example, Mooch wanted a veteran QB to build up Harrington...and was dumbfounded at several of the receiver picks that Millen made to help Harrington be a better quarterback (Mooch has stated several times that he wanted to build the defense).

Mooch preaches the gospel of Holmgren and Ron Wolf...and I think would be part of that team.

[Unchainme]

Kosar, auctually does know what he's doing somewhat. He did well with that Hockey team he helped manage (which I'm PRAYING he has move to Cleveland someday, would love to see a Hockey team to rival the Pens.), and did very well with the Arena team he put together, having them in the playoffs after finishing dead last the year before.

Auctually, it could be said that Kosar possibly helped nudge Lerner to get Holmgren in the first place, back in the day, the guy was BEGGING to run the WCO and even coined the phrase during an interview with SI in the early 90's.

I would really like to keep the defense we have in place right now though, the stats don't show it, but the D. has looked a lot better. Ryan is calling blitzes like his old man. Would love to see how much better it would look with someone like Eric Berry starting at safety.

[damngoodtimes]

I'm afraid the downside to this little winning streak might be that Berry is gone by the time we pick. another win this week could drop the Browns 3 or 4 more spots (as low as 10).

[Unchainme]

I'm afraid the downside to this little winning streak might be that Berry is gone by the time we pick. another win this week could drop the Browns 3 or 4 more spots (as low as 10).

Auctually could be a blessing in disguise.

This is probably the last year that players selected in the first round can ask for really high contracts. That'll leave us more cap room.

Worst case scenario we go with Russell Okung or CJ Spiller I'm thinking.

As crazy as drafting another o-linemen sounds, I would love to see how much better we could make the line look with the left side pretty much set and the RT spot in serious need of help.

[POJO_Risin]

Auctually could be a blessing in disguise.

This is probably the last year that players selected in the first round can ask for really high contracts. That'll leave us more cap room.

Worst case scenario we go with Russell Okung or CJ Spiller I'm thinking.

As crazy as drafting another o-linemen sounds, I would love to see how much better we could make the line look with the left side pretty much set and the RT spot in serious need of help.

If the Browns would focused on their lines in 99-2001...they would have been good for years...but they didn't...

Joe Thomas was the start...and you can never have too many good linemen. Imagine how good the Steelers would be right now with a good line...

[Unchainme]

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

Yo, Poj. was this the season that you quit being a fan of the Browns?

Just curious.

[Unchainme]

If the Browns would focused on their lines in 99-2001...they would have been good for years...but they didn't...

Joe Thomas was the start...and you can never have too many good linemen. Imagine how good the Steelers would be right now with a good line...

My dad always drilled that into my head as a kid. I'd go on and say "man I wish we had "X"-reciever/RB on our team", or "why does Couch look so horrible out there?".

Was pretty thankful when '07 came around and we pulled our head out of our asses and got an LT.