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Another one of those classic genius posts, sure to generate responses. You log on the next day to see what your witty gem has produced to find no one gets it and 2 knotheads want to stick their dicks in it... Well played, sir!!Comment
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As promised some info on the Black Talon. Let it be know some are still around in fact I have some in 45acp. FYI It is not illegal to posess them
Winchester Black Talons
The handgun ammo that was just "too good" to survive the pants-wetters.
On Thursday, 1 July 1993, 55-year-old mortgage broker Gian Luigi Ferri entered the San Francisco law offices of Pettit&Martin and opened fire with two Intratec TEC-DC9s and a Colt .45 ACP pistol1. Ferri killed eight and wounded six before turning the gun on himself. Moving through the office, he fired the TEC-9s which were loaded with a combination of Black Talon and conventional ammunition. Ferri ended the lives of some of the wounded with Black Talon rounds from his Colt pistol. Faced with financial problems, Ferri held a grudge against Pettit&Martin because the law firm had represented him in a 1980s trailer-park transaction that had gone bad.
Contemporaneous news reports cited the Black Talons' "razor sharp claws," and the resulting wounds as "devastating and non-survivable." However, a year later at an International Wound Ballistics Association conference, the San Francisco Medical Examiner, Boyd Stevens, M.D., who had conducted the post mortems of the shooting victims stated that the wound trauma produced by the Black Talon was "unremarkable."2
Five months and six days after the Ferri shootings, Colin Ferguson, a native of the Caribbean island of Jamaica, went on a murderous rampage on the Long Island Railroad (NY) with a questionably purchased3 Ruger P89 loaded with 9 X 19mm Black Talon 147-grain rounds, approximately one month following Olin's decision to remove the entire Black Talon brand of ammunition from the Winchester commercial catalogue.
Representative of the anti-gun, anti-Black Talon hyperbole of the period was this over-wrought description of the carnage Ferguson wreaked on unarmed citizens:
“Perhaps a prayer can stop a Black Talon. But a pocketbook probably will not. The bullet is designed to unsheathe its claws once inside the victim's body and tear it to pieces. That's what Colin Ferguson was firing, to the right, then the left, as he walked backward through the third car of the 5:33 train to Hicksville, New York, last Tuesday night. And the passengers who crushed toward the exits or dove under their seats or tried to hide behind their handbags did not stand much of a chance.
– Time Magazine, 20 December 1993
”One can not unreasonably argue that "Black Talon" never really had a chance either... except in the United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit: McCarthy v. Olin Corp., 119 F.3d 148 (2d Cir. 1997) which ruled...
“The Black Talon is a hollowpoint bullet designed to bend upon impact into six ninety-degree angle razor-sharp petals or "talons" that increase the wounding power of the bullet by stretching, cutting and tearing tissue and bone as it travels through the victim.
. . .
[P]laintiffs failed to allege the existence of a design defect in the Black Talon because the ammunition must by its very nature be dangerous to be functional. ... The risk of the Black Talon arises from the function of the product, not from a defect in the product.
. . .
The very purpose of the Black Talon bullet is to kill or cause severe wounding.
. . .
Because we hold that the Black Talon bullets were not defectively designed, we must affirm the dismissal of appellants' strict liability claims.”
And that's where the Black Talon issue rests today.Comment
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It was the Winchester Ammunition Company's BIG announcement for the 1991 SHOT Show: "Black Talon" handgun ammunition, the first major munitions maker's response to the post-11 April 1986 hysteria over the "ammo failure" in the notorious FBI Firefight.
The trade publication, Shooting Industry, awarded the design two years running:
1992 Winchester Black Talon handgun ammunition
1993 Winchester Black Talon rifle ammunition
In Fall 1993, Winchester took their Black Talon brand of hollow-point ammunition off the commercial market after the rounds were singled out during a particularly intense period of concern about gun violence.
Winchester officials used research to show that the Black Talon was no more deadly4 than any of the other hollow point bullets on the market, but they pulled the ammunition from the shelves to quiet public concern. Black Talon was the first product Winchester had ever removed from the market for reasons other than manufacturing defects in the almost 130-year history of the company.
"It is a hazard and shouldn't be used," Dr. Edward Quebbeman, professor of pediatric5 surgery at the Medical College of Wisconsin and a general surgeon in Milwaukee hospitals was quoted in the September/October 1993 issue of thed radical-Liberal Mother Jones Magazine. "At an absolute minimum, I would like to see it banned from the civilian population."
So too did the eloquent and blustering Democratic senior Senator from New York, Daniel Patrick Moynihan6, who told a visibly horrified Jane Pauley, "It's designed to rip your guts out!" in response to a question from the bopolar interviewer on WNBC's "Live at Five" television show.
Within the week, then Winchester Ammo President Gerald W. Bersett, having been ambushed in his own driveway one morning by a TV crew intent on some headline-making "gotcha journalism," ordered the rounds taken out of the commercial distribution chain.
For all intents and purposes, the "Black Talon" brand was dead from that moment forward.
What it is/was...
The original Black Talon7 line of handgun ammunition was introduced at the 1991 SHOT Show in Dallas, and was marked by a black-colored projectile seated in a nickel-plated case, which made for a very "sexy" round! With the black bullets and gleaming cases, they looked as if they were the "official handgun ammo" of the Oakland Raiders professional football team.
The bullet's black molybdenum disulfide coating... Winchester's proprietary name for which is "Lubalox..." was applied for increased lubricity. The tip of the projectile utilizes six serrations on the hollow cavity's nose (meplat). Upon introduction at a specific velocity into soft tissue, the projectile's jacket expanded along those six pre-stressed lines forming the "talon."
Winchester described this as:
“Six uniform, radial jacket petals with perpendicular tips.”
Winchester's Dave Schluckebier8 and Alan Corzine designed the Black Talon in the late '80s with what they termed a "reverse-taper jacket;" i.e., unlike conventional hollowpoint handgun projectile construction, the copper jacket is thicker at the nose than at the base. This heavier gauge provides the necessary structural stiffness to the "talons" after expansion so they remain in optimal position to slice through tissue as it parts around the mushroomed skirt of the bullet.
The Scandal and Beyond
The controversy over the Black Talon took place in an era when the public was largely uninformed about the reality of the new bullet technology developed in response to the FBI-facilitated Wound Ballistics Seminar at Quantico in September 1987.
To complicate matters, sentiment was already being heavily influenced by the efforts of anti-gun organizations such as Handgun Control, Inc. The issue blew into a firestorm, with HCI, the media, and even some in law enforcement vilifying the rounds and inflaming the public with such near hysterical statements from a surgeon in a Houston, Texas Emergency Room that the rounds were...
“...being designed to explode inside a person like a thousand razor blades, (with) most people having almost no chance of survival.”
Little wonder that Ms. Pauley looked a little pasty around the gills.
And HCI, having worked Josh Sugarmann's extraordinarily prescient "strategy of confusion"9 so well in the aftermath of the Patrick Purdy schoolyard shooting in Stockton, California almost five years earlier, reconfigured that campaign to "help" the public believe that the Black Talons were "deadly Cop-Killer Bullets."
At that point it was an understandable "corporate decision" for Winchester's Bersett to hit the panic button as a damage control measure.Comment
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So after reading that let it be know that removing them from the market didn't do shit. Fact is while it is without a doubt a bad ass bullet, so is just about any well made jacketed hollow point. Is the Black Talon a killer? Fuck yes. But many others will still do the job. The Federal Hydra Shock is one that I like. Designer bullets are cool.
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“Perhaps a prayer can stop a Black Talon. But a pocketbook probably will not"
lolComment
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And you'd be very wrong in that estimation. According to a study conducted by the company asked us to remove this link.org, there are 8,000 home invasions in the U.S. daily.
EDIT by Sesh:-
The company who provided your figures got into trouble over their content and asked us to remove it.Last edited by Seshmeister; 07-17-2013, 07:24 PM.
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.”― Stephen HawkingComment
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Well...1 in a million. 300 million people in US. Almost enough for 1 per day.
Anyways, regardless of how many there are, they are scary fucking shit. Referring to the very recent case of the mom and 2 daughters that were raped & burned in their home. Dad survived barely. The 2 guys that did it are gonna fry hard. Sick doesn't even begin to describe it.
Once again, here is where having big dogs can come in handy. Anytime my wife was home alone for the evening she kept both boxers in the room with her. But then who wants to get sued because your dog bit the ass off a burgler?
Chihuahuas only count if you have more than 6. Vicious little fuckers have to attack the burgler like a school of piranhas.“Great losses often bring only a numb shock. To truly plunge a victim into misery, you must overwhelm him with many small sufferings.”Comment
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Some dogs do more than slow the bad guys down.
(not mine...from the Internets. I couldn't afford to feed this beast.)“Great losses often bring only a numb shock. To truly plunge a victim into misery, you must overwhelm him with many small sufferings.”Comment
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Or you could go the complete other way and get this little guy to hypnotize the bad guys until the police arrive.........
“Great losses often bring only a numb shock. To truly plunge a victim into misery, you must overwhelm him with many small sufferings.”Comment
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Although Canada is not known as an armed nation. I do know a few gun owners (hunters and marksmen). I wouldn't hesitate for a second to cap a home invader, if I owned a gun.
The fucked up thing is I would go to prison for murder for protecting my family...Trolls take heed...
LOG OUT & FUCK OFF!!!Comment
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Well, to be fair...when I think of "home invasion" I think of the family getting tied up while the robbers rummage the entire house.
I do not consider it the same when a robber breaks in while people are sleeping or they think people are on vacation, but they are home. Might have a conflict as robber tries to flee once he realizes someone is home.
The statistics sound like they wrap them all up as one. Hell, they might even consider any home robbery an "invasion" as technically the home has been invaded, whether anyone was home or not.“Great losses often bring only a numb shock. To truly plunge a victim into misery, you must overwhelm him with many small sufferings.”Comment
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Not only that I they seem to be including any robbery and basically any crime that happens in some ones home.
From the earlier posts I appreciate that home invasion is more common in the US than here but maybe that's because of easy access to guns. I still dispute the figures though. If you are living in some shitty area in the worst part of town and a rival gang kicks your door in because you are fucking one of their cousins then that would appear on the so called home invasion figures.
Does anyone here know anyone who has had a home invasion?
Most people if you include friends of friends and relatives have a circle of maybe 500 people so if 100 people look at this thread we are talking about 50 000 people.
Anyone heard of a home invasion first hand?Comment
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