Paterno Out At Penn State

[gbranton]

So they won't be competitive at the highest level for a number of years.

They haven't been competitive at the HIGHEST level for a number of years BEFORE this. Hell, they got their ASS handed to them last year in the Outback Bowl by a team with NO quarterback, a shitty coaching staff and a defense that gave up 225 yards rushing to FUCKING FURMAN.

The problem PSU had was the same as FSU, they didn't have a head coach, they had a figurehead who was trying to hang in there as long as possible to embellish his record and satiate his ego even at the expense of his football team. Everyone can see how FSU has turned around now that have an actual coach who us mentally and physically able to tend to the day to day operation of the football program, as opposed to "riding around in a golf cart, sipping tea and taking maps" as Bowden's son put it.

As a football fan, I understand it, I never want to see Steve Spurrier coach his last game but sooner or later you have to realize that these old guys are hurting the team, not helping it.

[Von Halen]

Like I already said --- you're casting a VERY WIDE NET of hatred and vitriol towards lots of people who had NOTHING to do with this coverup and are disgusted it even happened.

Last time I checked --- the U.S. judicial system doesn't indict an entire family along with a suspected murderer just because those people are related to the murderer. We go after those people directly involved in a crime --- pure and simple.

Yes, I agree PSU athletes and students still have a school to attend and play for --- but these sanctions will do a lot of long-lasting damage to many innocent people. Maybe you don't know --- but a big-time football program like Penn State provides critical funds to all other athletic programs on campus. That means lots of other kids are able to attend PSU on scholarships thanks to the football program. Do they deserve to have their scholarships cut because of a few criminals?

I also know some business owners in State College, PA, who rely on the big crowds during football Saturdays to get them through the lean months of winter. Now, there's a real chance they will have to shut down because of smaller crowds attending the games. Their families will suffer the economic effects of these sanctions. Are they guilty of any crime?

If Mark Emmert had any integrity or obligation to follow his stated duties --- he would've punished anyone directly involved in this scandal and let the players and students continue with their lives unharmed. However, he decided to pull a George W. Bush "scorched Earth shock-and-awe" campaign to hurt many innocents with his holier-than-thou moral mission. Shame on him!

In crime, there are always innocent victims. On both sides. That's just the way it is. Like I said, PSU allowed these guys to run rough shod over young boys, and the law. They chose to take a chance on affecting the lives of the innocent. They lost.

By the way, the players and students are being allowed to continue with their lives. They aren't being harmed in any way. If an athlete in any other sport has a scholarship offer from PSU, there's a damn good chance they have the same offer from another University. I don't buy your excuses. You are more worried about a dumb football team, than what is right. That is what got PSU in this mess in the first place.

[TJMKID]

This isn't a punishment for Sandusky's actions. The courts will take care of that. This is for the COVERING UP what he did for over 10 years. Lack of Institutional Control.

I got no problem with punishing "lack of institutional control" ---- but go after the appropriate people who control the institution.

If Emmert wants to reduce everyone's pay in the PSU administration by 25% --- that sounds reasonable. Sends a clear message. If he wants to put 3rd party observers within the PSU administration for the next 15 years to make sure they are providing a system of checks-and-balances on the people at the top, that sounds reasonable. Sends a clear message.

However, cutting many scholarships to players and imposing a multi-year ban on bowl games only hurts the players and students. Every player wants as much as exposure as possible to strengthen his rank in the NFL draft and bowl games are the best way to achieve that. The huge money from bowl games is directly put back into scholarships (both athletic and academic) as well as other worthy endeavors to benefit students.

And I know business owners who are definitely going to see their sales go down because PSU will be putting 2nd-rate players on the field because the stigma will cause many top players to leave. People dont wanna see an inferior product and will stay home instead. So I guess it's cool for innocent business owners to suffer because of a few criminals and a cover up, huh?

For an analogy --- look at the Watergate Scandal. Congress didnt lay down a "scorched Earth" policy and send the entire Nixon administration to jail based merely on allegations and impose a $1 billion fine on them for being "part of the program". They went after people directly involved in the crime and settled the matter the appropriate way with due process and everyone got the message loud and clear. That's how you hand down justice fairly in the USA.

[Von Halen]

They haven't been competitive at the HIGHEST level for a number of years BEFORE this. Hell, they got their ASS handed to them last year in the Outback Bowl by a team with NO quarterback, a shitty coaching staff and a defense that gave up 225 yards rushing to FUCKING FURMAN.

The problem PSU had was the same as FSU, they didn't have a head coach, they had a figurehead who was trying to hang in there as long as possible to embellish his record and satiate his ego even at the expense of his football team.

I was going to mention this stuff, but I am trying to be respectable to PSU fan.

[TJMKID]

By the way, the players and students are being allowed to continue with their lives. They aren't being harmed in any way. If an athlete in any other sport has a scholarship offer from PSU, there's a damn good chance they have the same offer from another University. I don't buy your excuses. You are more worried about a dumb football team, than what is right. That is what got PSU in this mess in the first place.

PSU is LOSING scholarships and millions of dollars by being banned from bowl games. There is harm being done here.

So by your logic --- if you commit a crime --- it's OK for the courts to revoke your kids' academic scholarships and have your wife fired from her job --- but that's cool because she can always find another job and your kids can take out high-interest loans, right?

After all, your wife and kids are "part of your program" and should be made to suffer for your crime.

[gbranton]

I was going to mention this stuff, but I am trying to be respectable to PSU fan.

Well, that's talking football, the stuff that happens ON the field, so all bets are off, LOL.

[Von Halen]

Every player wants as much as exposure as possible to strengthen his rank in the NFL draft and bowl games are the best way to achieve that.

Really? So it's about the money not only at the college level, but the next level too? Nice.

What percentage of Division I athletes actually make a living at the next level, after their college career? I'll give you a hint. It's a very, very low number.

[Von Halen]

PSU is LOSING scholarships and millions of dollars by being banned from bowl games. There is harm being done here.

So by your logic --- if you commit a crime --- it's OK for the courts to revoke your kids' academic scholarships and have your wife fired from her job --- but that's cool because she can always find another job and your kids can take out high-interest loans, right?

After all, your wife and kids are "part of your program" and should be made to suffer for your crime.

My wife is dead.

Besides, you just gave one of the dumbest analogies I have ever seen on any of these message boards.

[TJMKID]

What percentage of Division I athletes actually make a living at the next level, after their college career? I'll give you a hint. It's a very, very low number.

OK so why cut scholarships?

Don't punish the innocent kids who just want to play for Penn State and get a free education.

But in your twisted world --- those are the kind of people who deserve to suffer the most from the criminal actions of a head coach and administrators.

[TJMKID]

My wife is dead. Besides, you just gave one of the dumbest analogies I have ever seen on any of these message boards.

My analogy is dead-on-balls accurate ---- your weird idea of "scorched Earth" justice only makes sense if your name is Adolf Hitler, Pol Pot, or George W. Bush.

I'd prefer if the founding American ideals of fairness and justice still apply to college sports and students.

[SilvioDante]

So by your logic --- if you commit a crime --- it's OK for the courts to revoke your kids' academic scholarships and have your wife fired from her job --- but that's cool because she can always find another job and your kids can take out high-interest loans, right?

After all, your wife and kids are "part of your program" and should be made to suffer for your crime.

Well, lets say I do commit a crime and found guilty. My wife will lose my income and my children will lose their father and their fathers income which could affect their ability to pay for college.

Are you suggesting people should never be punished for their action because there could be collateral damage?????

Once again, look at Indiana. After the NCAA came down, IU was down to 2 returning lettermen with a combined PGA of around 3. They prohibited recruiting, banned post season and destroyed one of the blue blood basketball programs. All the while, Kelvin Sampson was an assistant coach in the NBA.

I can't and don't feel sorry for PSU, because their fans still don't get it.

[Von Halen]

Your analogy is retarded.

If I were the one working at PSU and covering up a crime. A crime against young boys. And my Son was one of the ones missing out on a scholarship because of it, shame on me.

If my Son has to suffer because I, or some other moron chose to take that chance with his future, because of money, and a stupid football team, then that's the way it has to be.

If nobody but the perpetrator suffered for a crime, then who would police these types of situations? That's why you have the "Accessory" laws. If certain people had the balls to step up when they should have stepped up, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. It is unfortunate that innocent people have to suffer, but maybe next time something like this is going on, somebody will step up to the plate so the real innocent victims, THE BOYS, won't have to be tortured for over 10 years longer than they were. Maybe, just maybe, somebody will think twice about covering up a crime, because they will understand that said crime affects many more lives than just the one of the criminal.

[TJMKID]

Are you suggesting people should never be punished for their action because there could be collateral damage????

PSU students have already suffered a LOT of collateral damage from this scandal. The entire reputation of a once-respected Big 10 university is in the shitter. I've even heard many employers are hesistant to hire PSU grads because of the stigma from this scandal.

These NCAA sanctions are nothing but "piling on" to a vast amount of damage already done. NCAA president Emmert is going through the "holier-than-thou" playbook used by many prosecutors casting fire and brimstone looking to secure or re-elect themselves to a cushy job.

I'm not sure if you work for a company or not --- but if you do and your CEO gets convicted of a crime, then I hope every single employee suffers sanctions and repercussions that diminish your paychecks. That's the only fair way.

[TJMKID]

If nobody but the perpetrator suffered for a crime, then who would police these types of situations? That's why you have the "Accessory" laws. If certain people had the balls to step up when they should have stepped up, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. It is unfortunate that innocent people have to suffer, but maybe next time something like this is going on, somebody will step up to the plate so the real innocent victims, THE BOYS, won't have to be tortured for over 10 years longer than they were. Maybe, just maybe, somebody will think twice about covering up a crime, because they will understand that said crime affects many more lives than just the one of the criminal.

I really hope you arent this stupid !!

Go look up the legal definition of "accessory to a crime" and tell me how that applies to innocent athletes and students at Penn State. Your bogus law degree from Phoenix Online teach you all this stuff?

The accesories in this crime are allegedly Paterno, Spanier, Curley, and Schultz. None of those guys have been formally charged and had their day in court yet. Everything so far is allegations and suspicions made by a highly-paid consultant lawyer looking out for his bank account.

According to your logic --- the next time you run a red light --- the police have a right to throw your son in jail for being "an accessory" since he was riding along in the car with you.

[SilvioDante]

PSU students have already suffered a LOT of collateral damage from this scandal. The entire reputation of a once-respected Big 10 university is in the shitter. I've even heard many employers are hesistant to hire PSU grads because of the stigma from this scandal.

These NCAA sanctions are nothing but "piling on" to a vast amount of damage already done. NCAA president Emmert is going through the "holier-than-thou" playbook used by many prosecutors casting fire and brimstone looking to secure or re-elect themselves to a cushy job.

I'm not sure if you work for a company or not --- but if you do and your CEO gets convicted of a crime, then I hope every single employee suffers sanctions and repercussions that diminish your paychecks. That's the only fair way.

Are you kidding me? What did these students lose? Going to a football game in January? Hardly the same as me losing my job if my CEO does something. Half of these "poor students" still defend Joe Pa for Christ sakes!

These students still get to go to school at PSU and not be anal raped. They got off light.