Greatest bands ever?

**FORD** · 03-03-2009, 03:54 PM

Originally posted by Andy Taylor

Joe Elliot copied Le Bon's style for Love Bites and called it the Simon Le Bon effect.

Not coincidentally, this was the exact moment that Def Leppard became pussies.

Originally posted by Andy Taylor

Scott Gorham wanted to form a band with John Taylor around 1983 and they jammed together. Wouldn't be surprised if Lynott was too. His idea for his solo 80s music was to mix the loudest dance beats with rock music. That describes what Duran were doing.

It's already been established that John Taylor is a talented bass player, and fully capable of playing decent music when he's not surrounded by the likes of Simon LeBonBon and Nick Rhodes. As for the Thin Lizzy guys, they were looking for any way to stay relevant at the time. Sadly it didn't work, and Lynott ended up killing himself as a result a few years later. But Taylor eventually started playing with bands that were based on guitar sounds, and not synthesizers. (Power Station, Neurotic Outsiders)

Funny though, that members of Thin Lizzy had previously worked with Steve Jones of the Sex Pistols, and that both Andy & John Taylor would later work with him.

By default, wouldn't that make the Sex Pistols the greatest band of all time?

**Andy Taylor** · 03-03-2009, 08:02 PM

Originally posted by kwame k

I read you posts but disagree with your premise that they are one of the greatest bands of all time. So that makes me a sheep?

No, it was in how you dismissed them completely questioning everything about them without choosing to hear anything in their favour.

Proof of what? They were a popular band in the 80's and 90's. That they influenced people? Ok, I agree with that but did they influence a whole generation, did they change popular culture, did they change musical landscape of their time. To a degree, probably. To the degree that the Beatles did, no. Here again, you premise is subjective, at best.Here again. Yes, they influenced a few people. Did the influence a whole generation and change the musical landscape forever? No.

We're getting somewhere, so now you atleast accept that they had some influence and perhaps more than an 80s trend. As much as the Beatles? Clearly not.

Oh course we can debate this. The Bee Gee's changed modern music in their time and issued in a new trend. They outsold Chic. Abba has outsold Chic, here again, it's subjective. To what degree, is Chic one of the most influential bands of all time.

By Album sales........there are more bands that out sold them.
By Artist being influenced by them........more bands have been influenced by other bands.
By changing Popular Music.........many bands have changed popular music to a greater degree than Chic.

So what is the criteria? By any standard there are more bands that have changed music than DD and Chic combined.

As far as facts go......Led Zeppelin, The Beatles, The Eagles and on and on have sold more, influenced more and are still more relevant than either DD and Chic.

Should we limit Greatest Bands of All Time to a minimum of 100 million albums sold or by having the highest grossing concerts of all time. Give me a guideline and we'll debate who was the best, if not, it's purely opinion not fact.

Influence is always brought up as an all important criteria. But this brings us back to the original point of this thread. If people have been force fed their music and the notion that Beatles etc is the best thing ever, then ofcourse they will be 'influenced' by it. Just like CNN and Fox 'influences' people every day, but I call it conditioning. It's not just the bands we're talking about, entire genres are put down as being less important. People don't talk about funk riffs the way they would about the blues. And yet that is what Chic is, there's much more happening than 'disco' on their 7 albums, rn'b, funk, jazz, soul and some disco. We're not talking Euro disco like Boney M here, their music is far more sophisticated. It needs to be listened to with a new set of ears not as part of some disco compilation which spoils its importance. This is a short summary of Chic's accomplishments; I recommended a book which I'm not reading through again, so this is from Wiki.

the lead track "Good Times," is one of the most important and influential songs of the era. The track formed the backbone of Grandmaster Flash's "Adventures on the Wheels of Steel" and the Sugarhill Gang's breakthrough hip-hop single, "Rapper's Delight", and it has been endlessly sampled since by many dance and hip-hop acts, as well as being the inspiration for Queen's "Another One Bites The Dust" and also Blondie's "Rapture" also for the bass line of Daft Punk "Around the World".

At the same time, Edwards and Rodgers composed, arranged, performed, and produced many influential disco and R&B records for both established artists and one-hit wonders, including Sister Sledge's albums We Are Family (1979) and Love Somebody Today (1980); Diana Ross's 1980 album diana, which included the hit singles "Upside Down", "I'm Coming Out" and "My Old Piano"

Not just produced but they wrote the songs and played the music on them. That's Ross's biggest album of her career and many of those songs have been sampled. The same goes for the Sister Sledge stuff, all this stuff is heard in original form today and in sampled versions.

If you ask me what the important things are in judging a band, I'll say good song craftsmanship and creativity. And lastability. For me Beatles has the first two, but doesn't hold up too well. Besides this I'd personally go for a great rhythm section, and some people like groove oriented stuff. You don't hear it much in rock except in a few exceptions like Pantera, Sabbath, stoner and then Chic, Duran type stuff.

I can't come up with an all conclusive criteria. It's the easy thing to do to use influence or sales. But one can be as pointless as the other. We know that Britney and Kylie have sold a good deal and their concerts sell out too. You can bet generations of new stripper/dancers are being influenced by them, they're not listening to Rubber Soul. Since many people say Abba/Bee Gees have outsold Beatles I wouldn't be surprised if it's a relatively small and vocal bunch of fans and critic geeks who are hyping them any chance they get. If the Bee Gees sold so much surely they should be getting some near that amount of press but there's a media blackout on them almost.

Beyond those three I mentioned I can't think of any other standard. Maybe the polls are pointless and if you have a serious debate you probably would have to get a team of people to analyse a whole bunch of albums/bands song by song.

**Andy Taylor** · 03-03-2009, 08:06 PM

Originally posted by FORD

Not coincidentally, this was the exact moment that Def Leppard became pussies.

It's already been established that John Taylor is a talented bass player, and fully capable of playing decent music when he's not surrounded by the likes of Simon LeBonBon and Nick Rhodes. As for the Thin Lizzy guys, they were looking for any way to stay relevant at the time. Sadly it didn't work, and Lynott ended up killing himself as a result a few years later. But Taylor eventually started playing with bands that were based on guitar sounds, and not synthesizers. (Power Station, Neurotic Outsiders)

Funny though, that members of Thin Lizzy had previously worked with Steve Jones of the Sex Pistols, and that both Andy & John Taylor would later work with him.

By default, wouldn't that make the Sex Pistols the greatest band of all time?

Lepp were pussies atleast from Pyromania on. I've always hated them.

JT's best work was on the first three Duran albums and he's written more classic bass lines than a dozen of the best rock bands put together. Certainly more than Geezer.

He's put out many solo albums, besides those 'punk' efforts the rest sound like a mix of electronica weirdness, it's got bass, sax, synth. Not rocky at all.

I'll take the Damned over the Pistols any day.

**kwame k** · 03-03-2009, 09:11 PM

Originally posted by Andy Taylor

No, it was in how you dismissed them completely questioning everything about them without choosing to hear anything in their favour.

No I heard most of DD when it came out. I was playing in bar bands and DJ'ing at the time they were popular. You just assumed I have never heard them. Wrong assumption. I know most of Chic's stuff because it was popular when I was a kid. The fucking Commodores smoke them. Listen to this and tell me what grooves more. I loved the funk of the 70's and still listen to it today. I grew up on it.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/rrBx6mAWYPU&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/rrBx6mAWYPU&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

We're getting somewhere, so now you atleast accept that they had some influence and perhaps more than an 80s trend. As much as the Beatles? Clearly not.

I never said they haven't influenced people or were a great band. They just are not even close to the top 20 of Greatest Bands Ever.

Influence is always brought up as an all important criteria. But this brings us back to the original point of this thread. If people have been force fed their music and the notion that Beatles etc is the best thing ever, then ofcourse they will be 'influenced' by it. Just like CNN and Fox 'influences' people every day, but I call it conditioning. It's not just the bands we're talking about, entire genres are put down as being less important. People don't talk about funk riffs the way they would about the blues. And yet that is what Chic is, there's much more happening than 'disco' on their 7 albums, rn'b, funk, jazz, soul and some disco. We're not talking Euro disco like Boney M here, their music is far more sophisticated. It needs to be listened to with a new set of ears not as part of some disco compilation which spoils its importance. This is a short summary of Chic's accomplishments; I recommended a book which I'm not reading through again, so this is from Wiki.

So I was preconditioned to think that Elvis, Chuck Berry Buddy Holly, Little Richards and the rest of the pioneers of rock were influential only because someone told me so. That Brian Wilson was a fucking genius and Pet Songs is still one of my Favorite albums of all time but because it is recognize as being one of the most influential albums of all time, that's just media preconditioning. How about Nirvana, Soundgarden, Mother Love Bone, and Alice in Chains. They changed rock in the 90's and killed that bloated bag of shit that was 80's pop metal.

Thanks for clearing up the fact that I had no ability to discern which bands I liked and was so wrong in my over all musical tastes. Please.

That if I don't personally think that Chic and DD were even in the top 50 of Greatest Bands Ever! So it's the you are right and if I don't agree with you, I have the problem, Grow The Fuck Up!

I'm a dude who grew up in Motown. Where do you think the precursor to funk came from. Ever listen to James Jamerson's bass lines, they were some of the most influential bass lines ever recorded. Ever heard of The Funk Brothers. I also love funk and Chic doesn't even come close to being labeled funk. Not in a million years.

the lead track "Good Times," is one of the most important and influential songs of the era. The track formed the backbone of Grandmaster Flash's "Adventures on the Wheels of Steel" and the Sugarhill Gang's breakthrough hip-hop single, "Rapper's Delight", and it has been endlessly sampled since by many dance and hip-hop acts, as well as being the inspiration for Queen's "Another One Bites The Dust" and also Blondie's "Rapture" also for the bass line of Daft Punk "Around the World".

At the same time, Edwards and Rodgers composed, arranged, performed, and produced many influential disco and R&B records for both established artists and one-hit wonders, including Sister Sledge's albums We Are Family (1979) and Love Somebody Today (1980); Diana Ross's 1980 album diana, which included the hit singles "Upside Down", "I'm Coming Out" and "My Old Piano"

So fucking what. Wiki fucking references. Diana Ross had more hits with Motown than she ever had with those guys. So by your standards the people who wrote and produced her other top 10 smashes are better than those guys from the 80's. Since she had way more with Motwon.

Not just produced but they wrote the songs and played the music on them. That's Ross's biggest album of her career and many of those songs have been sampled. The same goes for the Sister Sledge stuff, all this stuff is heard in original form today and in sampled versions.

Biggest album of her solo career but not the biggest album of her career and not what made her a legend.

If you ask me what the important things are in judging a band, I'll say good song craftsmanship and creativity. And lastability. For me Beatles has the first two, but doesn't hold up too well. Besides this I'd personally go for a great rhythm section, and some people like groove oriented stuff. You don't hear it much in rock except in a few exceptions like Pantera, Sabbath, stoner and then Chic, Duran type stuff.

Song Craftsmanship and last-ability? Then come back and talk about DD 20 years from now and we'll poll a 100 random people and see if the majority will remember The Beatles or Elvis or DD. Wonder who'll win that poll?

Since many people say Abba/Bee Gees have outsold Beatles I wouldn't be surprised if it's a relatively small and vocal bunch of fans and critic geeks who are hyping them any chance they get. If the Bee Gees sold so much surely they should be getting some near that amount of press but there's a media blackout on them almost.

The people who say that they sold more records are just these guys but what do they know.........

29 EAGLES/THEIR GREATEST HITS 1971 - 1975 EAGLES ELEKTRA
27 THRILLER JACKSON, MICHAEL EPIC
23 LED ZEPPELIN IV LED ZEPPELIN ATLANTIC
23 THE WALL PINK FLOYD COLUMBIA
22 BACK IN BLACK AC/DC EPIC
21 DOUBLE LIVE BROOKS, GARTH CAPITOL NASHVILLE
21 GREATEST HITS VOLUME I & VOLUME II JOEL, BILLY COLUMBIA
20 COME ON OVER TWAIN, SHANIA MERCURY NASHVILLE
19 RUMOURS FLEETWOOD MAC WARNER BROS.
19 THE BEATLES BEATLES, THE APPLE
18 APPETITE FOR DESTRUCTION GUNS 'N ROSES GEFFEN
17 BOSTON BOSTON EPIC
17 THE BODYGUARD (SOUNDTRACK) HOUSTON, WHITNEY ARISTA
17 NO FENCES BROOKS, GARTH CAPITOL
16 THE BEATLES 1967 - 1970 BEATLES, THE APPLE
16 CRACKED REAR VIEW HOOTIE & THE BLOWFISH ATLANTIC
16 PHYSICAL GRAFFITI LED ZEPPELIN SWAN SONG
16 HOTEL CALIFORNIA EAGLES ASYLUM
16 GREATEST HITS JOHN, ELTON MCA
16 JAGGED LITTLE PILL MORISSETTE, ALANIS MAVERICK
15 THE BEATLES 1962 - 1966 BEATLES, THE APPLE
15 GREATEST HITS JOURNEY COLUMBIA
15 DARK SIDE OF THE MOON PINK FLOYD HARVEST
15 SATURDAY NIGHT FEVER (SOUNDTRACK) BEE GEES RSO

Link

Funny Chic and DD never even made the top 100 of all time album sales but the RIAA must have something against them or is it the fact that they didn't sell half the fucking records you think they did.

**chefcraig** · 03-03-2009, 09:31 PM

Originally posted by kwame k

No I heard most of DD when it came out. I was playing in bar bands and DJ'ing at the time they were popular. You just assumed I have never heard them. Wrong assumption. I know most of Chic's stuff because it was popular when I was a kid. The fucking Commodores smoke them. Listen to this and tell me what grooves more. I loved the funk of the 70's and still listen to it today. I grew up on it.

T.O.P. ruled as well. Crap, this tune still kills me to play on bass.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/VUFxj59Fa9o&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0xe1600f&color2=0xfe bd01"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/VUFxj59Fa9o&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0xe1600f&color2=0xfe bd01" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/3t2g28y7_gM&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0xe1600f&color2=0xfe bd01"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/3t2g28y7_gM&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0xe1600f&color2=0xfe bd01" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

**kwame k** · 03-03-2009, 09:37 PM

Oh fuck yeah! Seen these guys live. They bring it. The fucking horns!

We need to bring Bootsy into this thread.

**kwame k** · 03-03-2009, 10:04 PM

**chefcraig** · 03-03-2009, 10:04 PM

Originally posted by kwame k

Oh fuck yeah! Seen these guys live. They bring it. The fucking horns!

We need to bring Bootsy into this thread.

That's the very thing: having played some of this stuff over the years, it gives you a true appreciation of the mechanics behind the songwriting and musicianship. Just getting on top of some of this material is truly rewarding, and being able to play it for people and see them get off on it as much as you did really seals the deal.

I think that is why musicians (particularly those that came up in our era) have such a deep-seated respect for not only the material, yet the people who composed and played it. I'm not saying those that came in our wake are inferior nor are their opinions any less valid. Yet the actual material we are discussing (say 60's/70's versus 80's/90's) simply does not compare when given close scrutiny, particularly when you realize how much studio trickery is employed in the later days of the recording process.

**kwame k** · 03-03-2009, 10:26 PM

Originally posted by chefcraig

That's the very thing: having played some of this stuff over the years, it gives you a true appreciation of the mechanics behind the songwriting and musicianship. Just getting on top of some of this material is truly rewarding, and being able to play it for people and see them get off on it as much as you did really seals the deal.

I think that is why musicians (particularly those that came up in our era) have such a deep-seated respect for not only the material, yet the people who composed and played it. I'm not saying those that came in our wake are inferior nor are their opinions any less valid. Yet the actual material we are discussing (say 60's/70's versus 80's/90's) simply does not compare when given close scrutiny, particularly when you realize how much studio trickery is employed in the later days of the recording process.

Spot on Craig!

**kwame k** · 03-03-2009, 10:42 PM

**kwame k** · 03-03-2009, 10:54 PM

**kwame k** · 03-03-2009, 11:04 PM

**LoungeMachine** · 03-04-2009, 05:35 AM

Only here could a thread debating the validity of Duran fucking Duran being the greatest band ever make it to 5 fucking pages.......

Gotta love it.

**binnie** · 03-04-2009, 05:39 AM

Haha!

What I'd give for a Branigan thread right about now..........

**Panamark** · 03-04-2009, 07:31 AM

Duran Duran

Simon Lebon and his talented backup band.

Andy Taylor - Jizz in your pants time !!

Greatest bands ever?

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment