Annual Rock Hall Nominee Shit Show thread

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  • Seshmeister
    ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

    • Oct 2003
    • 35207

    #46
    It's a weird story as there is a list of top 100 guitarists on Rolling Stone and it seems to have been chosen mainly by a bunch of famous guitarists, a while ago in 2015 and Joan Jett isn't on the list.

    It's also a kind of weird list as these things always are, if there is any logic to it then it's more about influence and songs than technical ability.

    Ed comes in at 8.

    On these lists there are always at least a dozen examples where you can say under no fucking criteria can guy A be 20 places better than guy B I don't care what you are judging it on and this one is no exception.

    David Fricke picks the best and most influential guitarists in rock – from Jerry Garcia and Joan Jett to B.B. King and Jimi Hendrix.

    Comment

    • Nitro Express
      DIAMOND STATUS
      • Aug 2004
      • 32798

      #47
      Originally posted by FORD
      There's a reason those Quiet Riot albums still haven't been released officially. Randy sounds great, but that's the only thing good about them. DuBrow was a horrible songwriter. He made Hagar look like Shakespeare by comparison.
      Ha! Ha! Oh man, lower than Hagar. Well I saw the Riot live a few times and I enjoyed it but I never bought an album. DuBrow was a decent frontman and had good musicians but you are right, the songwriting lacked. But they did ok. People love Bang Your Head when you play it.
      No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

      Comment

      • Nitro Express
        DIAMOND STATUS
        • Aug 2004
        • 32798

        #48
        Originally posted by Terry
        I will say that in terms of gear re: pedals/effects, I'd have to agree. I've only ever owned stomp box pedals because I never reached the point with any of the amateur bands I was playing with decades ago where I needed rack mounted gear - and in the 1980s/early 1990s that gear was a bit more than I could afford in terms of needing it - but I've always noticed at louder volumes the effects are less...effective, for lack of a better word. The nuance they bring gets lessened at louder volumes. You can sort of over-process the sound of the instrument through too much gear to the point where it comes out sounding like mush. Really, the only effect box I used that wasn't dampened at louder volumes was a delay pedal.
        If the amp is the base of your sound go with less effects but some people use effects as a preamp. Prince did this and got a good sound. I think for fly out gigs small multiple effects boxes or small pedal boards are the go to thing but a lot of players still like a real amp.

        For basic rock you just don’t want to over process the sound because it’s counter productive. If you are going for an over processed sound on purpose that’s a different story.
        No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

        Comment

        • Nitro Express
          DIAMOND STATUS
          • Aug 2004
          • 32798

          #49
          Amazing we even care about bands that played almost a half century ago.
          No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

          Comment

          • FORD
            ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

            • Jan 2004
            • 58808

            #50
            Originally posted by Seshmeister
            It's no coincidence that their big hit was a cover and then they tried to repeat the trick with "Mama Weer All Crazee Now"

            A couple of times over the years I've thought I must go back and listen to early RR stuff but you are right the songs are so meh it's hard to get too interested. Also I do think his playing took a jump between QR and Blizzard of Oz and then again between BOZ and Diary of a Madman - he was getting better and better which makes his death a real 'what if'.
            It seems that working with Bob Daisley did a lot for Randy's songwriting which is why the songs are so much better on the Ozzy records. As far as his playing, Randy knew he was good, but he wanted to be better. If I remember correctly, he was still taking lessons while working with Ozzy, though I can't imagine what a guitar teacher could have taught him by that point. Classical stuff, probably... since he seemed to be moving in that direction.
            Eat Us And Smile

            Cenk For America 2024!!

            Justice Democrats


            "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

            Comment

            • Terry
              TOASTMASTER GENERAL
              • Jan 2004
              • 11966

              #51
              Originally posted by FORD
              There's a reason those Quiet Riot albums still haven't been released officially. Randy sounds great, but that's the only thing good about them. DuBrow was a horrible songwriter. He made Hagar look like Shakespeare by comparison.
              That Randy was a fine player was obviously evident on those two Quiet Riot albums just in terms of the technical ability he displayed, but...like, I had been aware in the early 1980s after Quiet Riot broke big that Rhoads had played in Quiet Riot and had recorded a couple of albums with them before joining up with Ozzy. I was aware that Slick Black Cadillac from Metal Health was one of the tunes Quiet Riot had been playing when Rhoads was in the band, and I had thought Slick Black Cadillac was one of the better tunes on Metal Health that wasn't the title track or Cum On Feel The Noize. So, I had assumed those two Rhoads QR albums were full of tunes on that level of Slick Black Cadillac.

              But, if memory serves those two Rhoads QR albums were only issued in Japan, and subsequently it wasn't until the late 1990s that I heard them when somebody posted them online for free in the then-early days of file sharing...and [the albums] weren't particularly good: it's as you say, that outside of hearing Rhoads play there wasn't anything on either of the records to recommend them, song-wise.
              Scramby eggs and bacon.

              Comment

              • Terry
                TOASTMASTER GENERAL
                • Jan 2004
                • 11966

                #52
                Originally posted by Nitro Express
                Ha! Ha! Oh man, lower than Hagar. Well I saw the Riot live a few times and I enjoyed it but I never bought an album. DuBrow was a decent frontman and had good musicians but you are right, the songwriting lacked. But they did ok. People love Bang Your Head when you play it.
                Quiet Riot were okay. I remember liking them well enough in 1983 when Bang Your Head and Cum On Feel The Noize were on heavy rotation on MTV...then again, I was 13 years old, so what the fuck did I know?

                Metal Health as an album overall was good. I mean, the band had been kicking around for close to a decade, and they...they had their moment, you know? I do remember the first concert my and my friends were allowed to attend by ourselves unchaperoned was Quiet Riot opening for Black Sabbath on the Born Again tour, and I remember being underwhelmed by Quiet Riot as a live act. And even watching Quiet Riot at the US Festival or...was it Dortmund in 1983, I think?...they weren't really much better than okay as a live act even at their zenith.

                Their second album, Condition Critical, was a letdown because they just played it too safe in trying to make Metal Health 2, but I can't blame them for playing it safe in that it took them a long time to make it big and they stuck with a formula they thought would work.

                They were a decent slab of meathead/straight-up early 1980s American commercial hard rock.
                Scramby eggs and bacon.

                Comment

                • Terry
                  TOASTMASTER GENERAL
                  • Jan 2004
                  • 11966

                  #53
                  Originally posted by Nitro Express
                  Amazing we even care about bands that played almost a half century ago.

                  It's...nostalgia, you know?

                  I don't really hear much musically these days rock-wise even worth listening to, much less talking about...but I'm happy being an old codger, lamenting the present and overhyping the past.

                  I will say the stuff I do enjoy coming out these days tends to be pop r&b synth rap type stuff, ideally with mildly smutty lyrics sung by black girls. There was this sort of recent dance hit called Get Lucky which I liked...I liked that Adore song by Harry Styles, too.

                  Most of the rock bands I see these days getting press or play come off like posers to my ears.
                  Scramby eggs and bacon.

                  Comment

                  • Nitro Express
                    DIAMOND STATUS
                    • Aug 2004
                    • 32798

                    #54
                    Originally posted by Terry
                    Quiet Riot were okay. I remember liking them well enough in 1983 when Bang Your Head and Cum On Feel The Noize were on heavy rotation on MTV...then again, I was 13 years old, so what the fuck did I know?

                    Metal Health as an album overall was good. I mean, the band had been kicking around for close to a decade, and they...they had their moment, you know? I do remember the first concert my and my friends were allowed to attend by ourselves unchaperoned was Quiet Riot opening for Black Sabbath on the Born Again tour, and I remember being underwhelmed by Quiet Riot as a live act. And even watching Quiet Riot at the US Festival or...was it Dortmund in 1983, I think?...they weren't really much better than okay as a live act even at their zenith.

                    Their second album, Condition Critical, was a letdown because they just played it too safe in trying to make Metal Health 2, but I can't blame them for playing it safe in that it took them a long time to make it big and they stuck with a formula they thought would work.

                    They were a decent slab of meathead/straight-up early 1980s American commercial hard rock.
                    I saw the Quiet Riot at the 83 US Festival. What I remember for how big it was the sound was really good. I always liked Carlos Carvezo's guitar playing. He had his signature sound and some good riffs. But QR sounded really good that day.
                    No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

                    Comment

                    • Nitro Express
                      DIAMOND STATUS
                      • Aug 2004
                      • 32798

                      #55
                      Originally posted by Terry
                      It's...nostalgia, you know?

                      I don't really hear much musically these days rock-wise even worth listening to, much less talking about...but I'm happy being an old codger, lamenting the present and overhyping the past.

                      I will say the stuff I do enjoy coming out these days tends to be pop r&b synth rap type stuff, ideally with mildly smutty lyrics sung by black girls. There was this sort of recent dance hit called Get Lucky which I liked...I liked that Adore song by Harry Styles, too.

                      Most of the rock bands I see these days getting press or play come off like posers to my ears.
                      The stuff we grew up on was motivated by getting a record deal. That motivation was killed by streaming music. But you used to be able to make some good money having a dance band. My dad had one in the late 1940's and he played clarinet and sax and they played dances. One guy told me he was making more money playing school dances in the NYC area than his dad was making as an engineer at Grumman. So knowing you can make a living at it is motivation to stick with it and get good.

                      In the 80's the whole thing was about playing clubs and getting a record deal. Playing dances was over because they had PA systems but you could play clubs. In 2022 where do you play? You aren't going to play dances, that's a DJ world now. Maybe some clubs but that isn't what it was and that's become a DJ world too. So it's more difficult to make money playing and you time is worth something. There is no music business and nobody is listening to radio stations like they used to.

                      The world has changed and we can be more selective than ever. People are in their own little worlds on their mobile devices and do less together. When you only had three network stations and a few radio stations people were more connected. You could become the big thing easier.
                      No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

                      Comment

                      • Nitro Express
                        DIAMOND STATUS
                        • Aug 2004
                        • 32798

                        #56
                        In the music business that used to be a four year run was about average for the average act that did well. After four years the band either self-destructed or had shot it's entire creative load. It was rare to have a band who could keep it together and cum and cum and cum again for years.
                        No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

                        Comment

                        • Seshmeister
                          ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

                          • Oct 2003
                          • 35207

                          #57
                          Originally posted by FORD
                          It seems that working with Bob Daisley did a lot for Randy's songwriting which is why the songs are so much better on the Ozzy records.
                          Ozzy is basically just the singer on Bob Daisley's solo project.

                          He has stretched 2 years of Bob Daisley's work into a 40 year career it's astonishing.

                          It's also ironic that his cunt of a wife who has been his puppet master for so long has now had so much surgery she looks like a muppet.

                          Comment

                          • Terry
                            TOASTMASTER GENERAL
                            • Jan 2004
                            • 11966

                            #58
                            Originally posted by Nitro Express
                            I saw the Quiet Riot at the 83 US Festival. What I remember for how big it was the sound was really good. I always liked Carlos Carvezo's guitar playing. He had his signature sound and some good riffs. But QR sounded really good that day.
                            Cavazo was decent.

                            I will say that with a tune like Cum On Feel The Noize, Cavazo constructed - or improvised, or however the solo was done (if he winged it or it was a composite or whatever) - a guitar solo that was quite well done, in terms of being both memorable and flashy.
                            Scramby eggs and bacon.

                            Comment

                            • Terry
                              TOASTMASTER GENERAL
                              • Jan 2004
                              • 11966

                              #59
                              Originally posted by Nitro Express
                              The stuff we grew up on was motivated by getting a record deal. That motivation was killed by streaming music. But you used to be able to make some good money having a dance band. My dad had one in the late 1940's and he played clarinet and sax and they played dances. One guy told me he was making more money playing school dances in the NYC area than his dad was making as an engineer at Grumman. So knowing you can make a living at it is motivation to stick with it and get good.

                              In the 80's the whole thing was about playing clubs and getting a record deal. Playing dances was over because they had PA systems but you could play clubs. In 2022 where do you play? You aren't going to play dances, that's a DJ world now. Maybe some clubs but that isn't what it was and that's become a DJ world too. So it's more difficult to make money playing and you time is worth something. There is no music business and nobody is listening to radio stations like they used to.

                              The world has changed and we can be more selective than ever. People are in their own little worlds on their mobile devices and do less together. When you only had three network stations and a few radio stations people were more connected. You could become the big thing easier.
                              I noticed when I moved to Tampa in 2000 that there was no local rock scene in terms of clubs where local rock bands were playing. It was pretty much all dance clubs. THAT was a bit of a culture shock vs. Rhode Island in the 1980s/1990s, where even that little pissant state had a pretty vibrant local scene with a dozen decent-sized club venues bands could play at. So, if anything, I figured a city the size of Tampa would have even MORE local venues and MORE local bands to go and see.: it was a bit of a shock to find out that wasn't the case. Then again, by 2000 the rock genre was sort of fading...

                              Sometimes, I'd just like to go to a club and see a local band playing...about the closest I can get to that now is some beach bar where a guy gets up with an acoustic guitar and plays Margaritaville-type tunes (THOSE fuckers are LESS than a dime a dozen down here).
                              Scramby eggs and bacon.

                              Comment

                              • Terry
                                TOASTMASTER GENERAL
                                • Jan 2004
                                • 11966

                                #60
                                Originally posted by Seshmeister
                                Ozzy is basically just the singer on Bob Daisley's solo project.

                                He has stretched 2 years of Bob Daisley's work into a 40 year career it's astonishing.

                                It's also ironic that his cunt of a wife who has been his puppet master for so long has now had so much surgery she looks like a muppet.
                                Really, the only Ozzy stuff I can be bothered with is the stuff either Butler or Daisley were writing for him. Basically the Sabbath stuff and Ozzy's first two albums: pretty much the rest of Ozzy's career is disposable to me. Several of the Jake E. Lee/Zakk Wylde tunes were good, but really by the time No More Tears rolled around it was over for me.
                                Scramby eggs and bacon.

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