Gay Mariage...

[Rikk]

There are some good points there. I've always maintained that religion is the jurisdiction of those with authority in the religion. But I feel there's no reason to not call it marriage. That's still infringement upon other people because someone doesn't agree with their lifestyle. The key is not compromise. When we're talking civil rights, there is no room for compromise. They're either allowed or they aren't. If a white judge ordered that a black man could eat in a white man's restaurant but had to sit in another section, that would be...well, in fact, that's exactly what happened. Civil rights aren't to be met halfway. They're to be met all the way. There is no logic in partially denying a right because it pisses a lot of people off that haven't brought their feelings into the 21st century yet. Rights aren't about appeasement.

But I will reiterate that I believe Catholic churches, Muslim churches, etc. can decide who gets married in their churches. A religion is like a club...you set your own rules.

The government is not a club.

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by Rikk
. But I feel there's no reason to not call it marriage. That's still infringement upon other people because someone doesn't agree with their lifestyle.

I don't see that as the certificate would be proof of a civil union regardless of sexuality pairing.

Growing up, I rarely heard as someone having a civil service as having a wedding or getting married. It was always said, they went to see the judge or they had a civil service. Lately though, marriage has popped up more and more to replace the wording, which is weird for me because Matrimony has always been used in terms of religion -- be it Christian, Pagan, etc. I think the Wiccans call their matrimony ceremony Henfasting, also, or something similar.

[HELLVIS]

Re: Gay Mariage...

Cool! Now the gay/lesbian community can partake in the joys of bitter divorces and all the other bullshit that goes with marriage. This reminds me of the U.S. army giving the indians blankets to keep them warm. Oh yeah, those blankets were infected with small pox. Be careful what you wish for.

[blonddgirl777]

Governments and Religions should stay separated...
Acting side to side, they've proven being extremely destructive in the past.
... They still are!

It is time for that abuse of power to be over.



My husband and I are Pagans and didn't beleive in getting married in a Catholic church (as we where brought up).
We don't beleive that a priest, that knows absolutely NOTHING about relationships is the right person to marry a couple.

When someone asks me my status I answer (or check): "Married"... not "Clvilly United".

Whatever term you want to use is your own business and as far as I'm concerned, no religion will ever dictate me how to label my union.

[Nitro Express]

It's easy to have sepparation of church and state when everyone in the country share the basic "public values". In the past nobody really questioned the 10 commandments or had a problem with them. The nasty stuff we do now was done then but in secrecy. Christianity was the major religion and nobody had a problem having a Christmas party at school or wishing people Merry Christmas!

Now public celebrations of Christmas and displays of the Ten Commandments is under fire. Homosexuality was tottaly underground with the exception of places like San Fransisco and other gay accepting communities.

When everyone shares the same general value system it's easy to say we don't want a theocracy, but when our values are coming under attack to the point to where we feel threatened, people change.

Many view homosexuality as a national threat and something that will ruin the country for their kids and grandchildren. They view it as the beginnings of Soddom and Gomorah and they will do what they have to do to eliminate the threat.

Saying there is sepparation of church and state is clearly accademic because we take our value system to the voting booth.

Hey, the Mormon prophet may no longer be the govenor of Utah but if you think the Mormons don't currently run the state of Utah, you're an idiot.

Wars have began under a difference in percieved values. If you think we live in an more enlightened day and age then Ha! Ha! Ha! Dream on! You can get shot for you beliefs now as easy as you could get killed for them several thousand years ago. The human race never changes. In the end, he with the biggest stick wins the philosophy argument.

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by blonddgirl777


We don't beleive that a priest, that knows absolutely NOTHING about relationships is the right person to marry a couple.

Why not? In the Catholic Church, it is a sacrament and being a sacrament it is to be performed by a priest. Does this mean that justices of the peace, ministers, and other respected heads of faith who don't have a spouse can't perform services within their respected religions?

All the priest does is meet with you and tell you the requirements from the Doctrine to getting married within the Church. For those pre-cana and weekend encounters, you deal with a long-term married couple that talks to you about marriage and up-coming bumps in the road and ways of dealing with them.

The priest does nothing but perform the sacrament. That's like saying a priest can't perform Communion because he isn't the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.

Besides, just because a man went to the seminary and recieved the Sacrament of Holy Orders does not mean that he knows nothing about relationships. There are men who date throughout high school and then sometime afterwards there, or in college or whenever they hear their calling go on to study. It's not right to list them as ignorant to relationships all together because they decided they wanted this position within their faith. It's a common misinterpretation. You'd be surprise at how much they actually understand.

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
Why not? In the Catholic Church, it is a sacrament and being a sacrament it is to be performed by a priest. Does this mean that justices of the peace, ministers, and other respected heads of faith who don't have a spouse can't perform services within their respected religions?

All the priest does is meet with you and tell you the requirements from the Doctrine to getting married within the Church. For those pre-cana and weekend encounters, you deal with a long-term married couple that talks to you about marriage and up-coming bumps in the road and ways of dealing with them.

The priest does nothing but perform the sacrament. That's like saying a priest can't perform Communion because he isn't the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.

Besides, just because a man went to the seminary and recieved the Sacrament of Holy Orders does not mean that he knows nothing about relationships. There are men who date throughout high school and then sometime afterwards there, or in college or whenever they hear their calling go on to study. It's not right to list them as ignorant to relationships all together because they decided they wanted this position within their faith. It's a common misinterpretation. You'd be surprise at how much they actually understand.

A Priest or a Minister can very well perform any sacrement for those who beleive in, and need that kind of blessing...



But like I said in my previous post: We are Pagans.
None of that « Church, Sacrements, Priests, Nuns, etc... » makes sens to us, so that’s why a Priest is not up to get involved in our lives.

After 12 years of Catholic School and Church (blessed by every sacrements), after witnessing a lot of stories and anecdotes related to comments and behaviors made « in the name of God », I decided that this Religion was not designed for me (or I was not designed for it).

Fortunately, I met a husband that shared the same opinions as I do and we just celebrated our 14th year last thursday.

No « pre-cana or week-end encounters » by the church etc... we made our own, being lucky enough to have good familie’s and friend’s inputs . And we beleive that if we are still together (and in love), it is all because of our common devotion to go through everything and to make things work. Trust me, we know what « thick and thin » means... we learned it in the school of « life as a couple ». And there are many couples that are like that, here.

I want to add that I do respect everyone's beleifs as long as they don't try to convert/convince, in any way (especially with war and violence). Religion is a very personnal thing that has to be lived within oneself and that can be passed on to one’s children.

There are many groups of beleifs to chose from, and I just don't like the arrogance (or ignorance) of those who claim high and loud that THEIR's is THE ONE AND ONLY…

Mostly, Religion shouldn't be USED to defend or condone any society's and government's behaviors, as it is being done now, with Gay Mariages.

I think Religion is far from being the key to a peacefull society (history has spoken) but acceptance and tolerance towards each other is... since Loving everybody is totally impossible.

What I was trying to express by starting that thread, is that we would all « win » (at least inside) if we could just:
« Live and let Live »...

[Nitro Express]

Paganism is basically idol worship. What pagan Gods do you worship Blondgirl777? Why paganism over being an agnostic or an athiest. For me, I really have no idea what or who God is. Since it's impossible to prove that God exists or doesn not exist, I certainly didn't want to become an athiest. Hey, getting a perfect ressurected body after I die and going to heaven sounds good to me. I have no idea what's going to happpen but I try and hedge things by trying to be a good person and try to treat people how I would like to be treated myself.

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
There are men who date throughout high school and then sometime afterwards there, or in college or whenever they hear their calling go on to study.

I think this 'calling' expression was/is actually a euphanism or codeword developed over the centuries for men that find that they are sexually attraced to children.

[franksters]

one comment to moose and cathedral, I hope your kids don't turn out gay...

and that is usually what happens to gay haters father...

because you will suffer as much as you hate this lifestyle.

to me this is like prostitution, no one will ever be able to stop it, so legalize it a.s.a.p. so we can collectively move on to the next topic...

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by blonddgirl777
A Priest or a Minister can very well perform any sacrement for those who beleive in, and need that kind of blessing...



But like I said in my previous post: We are Pagans.

Do you dance about in circles up hills with your tits hanging out?

Do you spend a lot of time picking up pebbles and talking about how strong their energy source is?

Do you swing?


Cheers!

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Do you dance about in circles up hills with your tits hanging out?

Do you spend a lot of time picking up pebbles and talking about how strong their energy source is?

Do you swing?


Cheers!

Nice try... for the insults towards my beleifs!

I really hope it helps you feel better about the ignorant person that you are!

[moose]

Originally posted by franksters
one comment to moose and cathedral, I hope your kids don't turn out gay...

and that is usually what happens to gay haters father...

because you will suffer as much as you hate this lifestyle.

to me this is like prostitution, no one will ever be able to stop it, so legalize it a.s.a.p. so we can collectively move on to the next topic...

Frankster, no need to worry on my part. You have me misunderstood, what I'm tryin to say is that "do not call it a marriage" a "civil union" would better describe it. A person/s can do whatever they want behind closed doors, I really couldn't care less, but when you act like a bunch of idiots in public, being very promiscious and having no morals/ethics with your public conduct then of course I'm gonna say something. Just keep it behind closed doors. As for my kids, well they can judge for themselves, I do not show any hate towards any religion, ethnic, or sexual preference in front of them.
Todays children learn their predjudice feelings at school, where they are most vulnerable. My parents taught me how to be respectable, treat everyone fairly get a good education etc etc, they sure as fuck didn't teach me on how to hate. So forget about calling it "marriage" call it a "civil union".
If someone's gay well it's their loss for not enjoying one of GOD's greatest gifts to humanity.......
Pure unadulterated pleasures with the opposite sex.

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by Nitro Express
Paganism is basically idol worship. What pagan Gods do you worship Blondgirl777? Why paganism over being an agnostic or an athiest. ...

I have no idea what's going to happpen but I try and hedge things by trying to be a good person and try to treat people how I would like to be treated myself.

The term "Payen" (French for Pagan), was used by Catholics to insult those who didn't beleive in anything,
Re: THEIR God.
It means: "Beleives in Nothiong" and "Will be a Lost Soul" etc...

That's what I was called by many God worshipers that surrounded me, as I grew up (in French).

I don't idolise anything or anybody (except for Dave)... L.O.L.

Trying to be as good as I can be, treating people as I would like to be treated, along with respecting every living creature and the environment is also what I try to do.

You say that you have no idea of what's going to happen... well, this is humble of you to admitt that.
I don't know either and so far, no-one has been able to prove anything...

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by moose
... what I'm tryin to say is that "do not call it a marriage" a "civil union" would better describe it.
So forget about calling it "marriage" call it a "civil union".

No problem here!

In fact, I would be happier describing myself as: "Civily United" or some other term that could be adopted legally to describe that.
A term is just a term...

Anyway, what makes people stay together LOVING EACH OTHER is really not a paper (signed by whoever).
We all know that it is: Devotion, Tolerence, Respect, etc... etc...

Statistics about divorces???