The BIG problem with the Jesus story

[EbDawson]

Originally posted by Hardrock69
Because Christmas has nothing to do with Jesus. It is a pagan holiday dedicated to spending money!

Get yourself outta here! :D

[FORD]

Originally posted by Golden AWe
But the fact is that such a book does not exist...

A personal question - why do you feel the need to believe in something so much you're ready to pass all the irrational stuff of the same book on the way?

I'm not entirely the"Biblical literalist" that some might imagine.

I believe this universe was designed by a Creator. Whether that Creator's driver's license reads "Jehova", "Elohim", "Allah" or "Wakan Tanka" doesn't make a damn bit of difference to me. Whether He created the entire planet in 6 days, 6 minutes or 6 billion years doesn't make a damn bit of difference to me, though I definitely DO believe that He directed the process. The details of the process may never be fully known to us, but does that really matter?

I believe that Creator had a son named Jesus Christ. Whether Jesus was born in a barn or in the Bethlehem Hilton really doesn't matter all that much, but they would have been kicked out of the room anyway, between the crying baby and all the visitors (shepherds, angels, wise men, etc.)

Not to mention Santa parking on the roof in the middle of the night, leaving reindeer crap all over the place......

[DrMaddVibe]

Originally posted by FORD
The fact that the gospels WERE written in the decades after the Crucifixion absolutely excludes Judas from writing one, since he was dead.

Judas hung himself over his guilt for betraying Christ, so he wouldn't have been around to write much.

Hangman, hangman, hold it a little while,
Think I see my friends coming,
Riding a many mile.
Friends, did you get a little silver?
Did you get a little gold?
What did you bring me, my dear friends,
To keep me from the Gallows Pole?
What did you bring me to keep me from the Gallows Pole?

[DrMaddVibe]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
I love how a pregnant virgin travels 70 miles on a donkey for over 10 days to take part in a non existent census before giving birth to a baby who is god but not god and a the holy ghost but also not the holy ghost and the thing that makes no sense to you is limitations of hotel provision in Bethlehem.

Cheers!

Maybe his name was Brian!

Always look on the bright side of life!

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[Golden AWe]

Originally posted by FORD
I'm not entirely the"Biblical literalist" that some might imagine.

*clip*

Good luck and all the best for you.

I was raised in a christian family, (lutherian), my mother was a really religious person. But I feel that life is hell unless remain the positive attitude and keep on moving, and let the sun take care of it's children and the oil-heated inventions of man quide keep you warm when you turn on your favorite VH album when you're going through your homeless period in Denmark, trying to finish your final project at the same time when your girlfriend has cheated on you. Then you realize it's up to you to get up one more time and cheat on her with a slovakia bird, have a satanish laugh, carry on and come back and put up a rock concert with your school band. "Devil's plaything in my hand..." :D

Two years later that dear mother of yours passes away and you're happy for her the religion kept her positive until the end. However, that doesn't bring her back and it's hard to believe in a god that kills people like her, someone who's never hurt anybody. Same with plenty of others around the family.

Then you put on another grate album and keep carrying on with your life, supporting a dear girl who's gone through the same, talk through things that are in your mind, and step up from the table when it's your time to sing "Backdoor man" in the local heavy karaoke. You receive a huge applause and several girls give you a kiss and you get high fives from some guys. It's a little thing, and silly, byt it helps you to go on and see how it helps to let the energy float through you, also when you're talking about eating more chicken than any man's ever seen. Plus, you have stopped drinking and it's still fun to hang around in bars.

Yeah, remaining positive, staring at the sun, laughing at myself and listening to dark music, looking at dark humour and laughing at yourself has helped me the most all through these years.

Did god invent LP? :p

[Coyote]

"God gave rock'n'roll to you..."

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by FORD
I'm not entirely the"Biblical literalist" that some might imagine.

I believe this universe was designed by a Creator. Whether that Creator's driver's license reads "Jehova", "Elohim", "Allah" or "Wakan Tanka" doesn't make a damn bit of difference to me. Whether He created the entire planet in 6 days, 6 minutes or 6 billion years doesn't make a damn bit of difference to me, though I definitely DO believe that He directed the process. The details of the process may never be fully known to us, but does that really matter?

I believe that Creator had a son named Jesus Christ. Whether Jesus was born in a barn or in the Bethlehem Hilton really doesn't matter all that much, but they would have been kicked out of the room anyway, between the crying baby and all the visitors (shepherds, angels, wise men, etc.)

Not to mention Santa parking on the roof in the middle of the night, leaving reindeer crap all over the place......

http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2006/delusional-p1.php

[GOD ALMIGHTY]

I DIDST GIVE ROCK AND ROLL TO THEE.

GIVE CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE.

JESUS WAS THE RESULT OF A NIGHT SPENT WITH MARY, WIFE OF JOSEPH.

JOSEPH HAD NOT YET KNOWN MARY, SO THY GOD DECIDED TO EXERT SOME INFLUENCE, AND APPEARED UNTO MARY. ONCE SHE WAS IN THE THROES OF HOLY ECSTASY, SHE BECAME QUITE WILLING TO CONTINUE UNTIL THE WEE HOURS OF THE MORNING.

NEVER FEAR, MY FAITHFUL SERVANTS. FOR THE LORD THY GOD DOTH HAVE A SENSE OF HUMOUR.

I BLESS ALL OF THEE, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF KATYDID, JOSEPH THUNDER, DYLANLEEROTH, AND THE MONGREL DOG KNOWN AMONGST THEE AS "JIZZYSTOOL".

THEY ART CURSED IN MINE EYES!

[DrMaddVibe]

"No, I'm Brian!"

HA!:D

[WelshJon]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
I love how a pregnant virgin travels 70 miles on a donkey for over 10 days to take part in a non existent census before giving birth to a baby who is god but not god and a the holy ghost but also not the holy ghost and the thing that makes no sense to you is limitations of hotel provision in Bethlehem.

Cheers!

Oh yes!

[Hardrock69]

Sesh pretty much nailed it on the head. Or the ankle. Whatever.

Seems God got up on the wrong side of the Universe this morning...

[WARF]

Re: The BIG problem with the Jesus story

Originally posted by Seshmeister
If 80% of the story is just stuff absorbed from myths then why should we believe any of it?

Mithraism, a religion derived from Zoroastrism, was very popular in Rome at the same time that Christianity was spreading. Mithras was believed to be the son of the sun, sent to the earth to rescue humankind. Two centuries before the appearance of Jesus, the myth of Mithras held that Mithras was born of a virgin on December 25 in a cave, and his birth was attended by shepherds. Mithras sacrificed himself and the last day had a supper with twelve of his followers. At that supper Mithras invited his followes to eat his body and drink his blood. He was buried in a tomb and after three days rose again. Mithras' festival coincided with the Christian Easter.

This legend dates from at least one century before Jesus. It was absorbed in the Roman dogma. Jesus' attitude often resembles the legendary greek philospher Socrates (eg, the way he refuses to respond to Pilate).

The Egyptian god Osiris was also born on the 25th of December, died on a friday and resurrected after spending three days in the underworld.

The Roman god Dionysus was hailed as `The Saviour of Mankind' and `The Son of God'. Dionysus was born (on December 25) when Zeus visited Persephone. Therefore, his father is God and his mother is a mortal virgin. Announced by a star, he is born in a cowshed and visited by three Magis. He turns water into wine and raises people from the dead. He is followed by twelve apostles. Dionysus' resurrection was a popular myth throughout the Roman empire, although his name was different in each country. The rituals in honor of Dionysus included a meal of bread and wine, symbolizing his body and blood.

An amulet of the 3rd century has been found that depicts a crucified man (unmistakably Jesus) but bears the inscription "Orpheus Bacchus", which was yet another name for Dionysus. The 5th century Egyptian poet Nonnus wrote two long epic poems in Greek, one on the conquest of the world by Dionysus, and the other a verse paraphrase of one of the Christian gospels. Unfortunately, we know little of the Dionysus' faith because in 396 a mob of fanatical Christians destroyed the sanctuary of Eleusis, likely to have been the largest religious center in the world. We only know that the rituals were very popular and lasted several days.

The early Christians revered Dionysus's birthday as Jesus's birthday (Christmas) and the three-day Spring festival of Dionysus roughly coincides with Easter. Jews had their own version of this festival (the "therapeutae") since at least the year 10 (it is reported by Philo of Alexandria), which is 23 years before the crucifixion of Jesus (Armenians still celebrate the birthday of Jesus on january 6).

Jesus lived right at the beginning of the Roman empire. The first emperor, "Augustus", had the title of "saviour of the human race". The legend was that Augustus had been born nine months after his mother was "visited" by the god Apollo. The greatest Roman poet of all time, Virgil, had foretold in 40BC that a king would be born of a virgin. It was false, but it was widely believed by ordinary Romans that, in the year of Augustus' birth, the Roman senate had ordered the murder of all other children.

Pre-existing legends and current events influenced the way the official gospels were selected and doctored. Some scholars have even suggested the entire history of Jesus is a myth, based on pre-existing myths that were assembled by "gnostic" jews.

The official gospels were carefully chosen and edited to reflect a view acceptable to the Roman authorities and audience. For example, the official gospels blamed the Jews for killing Jesus, even if, of course, it was the Romans who killed him (for sedition). The earliest account of the life of Jesus, St Mark's gospel, was written during the Jewish rebellion of 66. It was not a time to claim that Jesus was a Jewish revolutionary. Jesus, in fact, is presented as a victim of the Jews.

Bullshit.

But I appreciate your theory.

I am a Christian, and I understand that some people were not born with the gift of Faith. I believe in the gospel of Christ because it is the truth. Jesus Loves us, and some parts of the bible including Genesis is total crap... because it was altered and put into the wrong hands... who rewrote it? Nobody knows... like Adam & Eve for an example... God created many people and races... if Adam and Eve were true then there would be no Asians, Blacks, etc etc... so as a Christian I believe that parts of the bible have been rewritten or destroyed...however in the book of Revelations 22:18-19 (which was written through the apostle John) states "I warn everyone who hears the words of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, god will take away from him his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which is described in this book."

God told John this through the holy spirit, which is given to anyone who puts their faith in god... and he will speak to you.

So don't worry in that verse it explains that alot of stuff in the bible, that will be changed by evil men who have no faith in god... so many of you are right... some of it is a hoax.... but the gospel is not... (John, Matthew, Mark and luke) that's why all four are similiar in stories... Jesus Did die for our sins and I have even better news for those who are not Christian!!

Jesus Christ is the son of God.
Those who believe in Christ are god's Children.
So Jesus is not only God's son... but I am a brother of Jesus!
Jesus says those who believe in him...
He will answer their prayers!
So guess what??
Just as Jesus died on the cross for our sins..
I have the power to forgive others through prayer from Jesus Christ.
And since Jesus promises that those who believe prayers will be answered... I pray for those who are NOT believers in Christ... for them to be able to go to heaven and so do other CHRISTIANS!!!

So that means even Sesh who has no faith... WILL STILL GO TO HEAVEN!!!

Now that doesnt mean you should all go around and kill people and sleep around with millions of women and sin...

You should try to live your life as a Christian!
And you will be more blessed!!

Some people do not have the ability to believe... some people are born Jewish and have parents who don't believe... but since I am apart of GOD and GOD is with me... he will answer my prayers!
And I pray that everyone who doesn't know god... please let them into heaven!!

Isn't that cool???

[Hardrock69]

I tend not to believe in fairy tales.

One can live their life as a Muslim or Jew and be just as blessed as a Christian.

Or if they wish to believe on the Holy Tricycle of Antioch, and can derive the same spiritual satisfaction as someone who is Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Christian, Moron, whatever, then more power to them.


However, people shouldn't try to push their religion off on other people. For instance, the pathetic lie that other people will go to Hell if they do not believe as they do. That is just laying a guilt trip on people to try to convince them that "My fairy tale is real and yours is not".

A "Christian" is no more "blessed" or likely to "enter Heaven" than anyone in any other religion.

All this crap about "If you are not a Christian who worships JEE-ZUSSS-AHHH!!, then you will die and go to Hell" (though it is the 'opinion' of many 'Christians') is just a pile of fucking shit.

Anyone with half a brain would see how irrational it is to believe something like that. No matter how much 'Christians' scream and howl and cry that all the non-Christians cannot find true happiness without JEE-ZUSSS-AHH!!!, the blatant truth is that a majority of people on this planet are just fine and dandy without worshipping JEE-ZUSSS-AHHH!!!!, and have no intention of ever doing so.

In fact, billions of people were perfectly content with whatever their religious beliefs were LONG BEFORE Jeeeezusss was ever even "born".

[WARF]

Originally posted by Hardrock69
I tend not to believe in fairy tales.

One can live their life as a Muslim or Jew and be just as blessed as a Christian.

Or if they wish to believe on the Holy Tricycle of Antioch, and can derive the same spiritual satisfaction as someone who is Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Christian, Moron, whatever, then more power to them.


However, people shouldn't try to push their religion off on other people. For instance, the pathetic lie that other people will go to Hell if they do not believe as they do. That is just laying a guilt trip on people to try to convince them that "My fairy tale is real and yours is not".

A "Christian" is no more "blessed" or likely to "enter Heaven" than anyone in any other religion.

All this crap about "If you are not a Christian who worships JEE-ZUSSS-AHHH!!, then you will die and go to Hell" (though it is the 'opinion' of many 'Christians') is just a pile of fucking shit.

Anyone with half a brain would see how irrational it is to believe something like that.

It's not ALL fairy tales!
Some of it is Bullshit and some of it is real!!!
But the gospel is real!
There is alot of stuff in Genesis that contradicts what Christ preaches!!
There is a god... but some of the bible makes it seem like god hates us... but he loves us... he loves us unconditionally... so he gave us Christians the gift to forgive others just like Christ forgave us on the cross... so that all of mankind will go into heaven... and the Devil will be defeated... and you will feel like idiots up there for not believing in the truth now!!

[Hardrock69]

He gave Muslims and Jews the same abilities to forgive others, WITHOUT having to be a 'Christian'.