Superman 2: The Donner Cut

[ULTRAMAN VH]

Just out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on Superman Returns?

[POJO_Risin]

Okay...the short version...

I liked most of the cast...including Routh...who was perfect for the role...

but the script sucked ass...they tried to pay to much homage to the Donner films...and ultimately produced a much weeker knock off...

it's funny though...Routh...is being complained about being to thin...and lanky...and if you look at both he and Reeves...they have essentially the same build.

I watched the documentary of the film...and the big rip on Reeves?

He was to thin...

Donner was calling him the tall drink of water...

lmfao...

[POJO_Risin]

Here's what I said in another thread...

Originally posted by POJO_Risin
WARNING...I'm posting fucking spoilers...so if you don't want to know...don't fucking read it...and bob was a fuck of a lot nicer about ruining than I'm going to be...read it or don't...

Okay...a few general thoughts before I detail it a bit...

1. I felt many of the same things that Bob did when I walked out...what this film needed more than anything else...was...

fantastic...and there were absolute snippets of WOW...but I agree 100% with bob...not nearly fucking enough. This movie could have been great...more than great...just on effects alone. Unfortunately...Singer spent to much time showing us how FAST Superman was...so 80% of his shots are blue and red blurs...

After the first 30 minutes...the action...well...sucks...

the plane scene should have happened more than once...and through the whole film...

2. I actually liked the casting...and think the faults of this movie weren't the casting...but the script. Routh. I totally disagree with what everyone says about how "thin" he is and all that crap. He LOOKS like Superman...period. No, I don't collect still...but did. And he shouldn't have to look like the book...he's not much smaller than Reeve was...and is the same height...

He was a good Clark Kent...but they really didn't let that develop...and he was a good Superman...but they didn't let that develop...

When I walked out...I was thinking...he didn't talk much. When he did...there was that Reeve-ness about him...but whatever...the script absolutely sucked where Routh was involved.

I'm not going to go there with the Welling comments. I watch the show as well...and Welling is excellent in that show...and the show is excellent. That being said...I COULD see him doing the movie as well...but you can't take that show to the movie screen. It HAD to be different. Superman the movie...and Superman on TV have 2 totally different connotations.

There isn't a bigger Caviezel fan than I...and the guy can flat out fucking act...

but at 6'1 1/2-6'2" and 185 pounds...if you think Routh is wrong because he's thin...then Caviezel...is ALL wrong...

I despised Dean Cain in the role...His version of Superman and Clark Kent were very...very steered in a different direction...I liked the show a bit...during the Lex Luthor Arc...

as far as the suit...it was a bit dark for my taste...but liked the changes...overall...which surprised me...

I can get into all the semantics...but what it all comes down to is Routh has the look...and I think the chops...but he just didn't have enough...in either part.

Reeve's part was so fucking well developed with dialogue...and the relationship between he and Lois...and Perry...and Jimmy...and Lex...

Routh's version starts off uncomfortable with Lois...and the part was uncomfortable...and I liked that...in particular with Kent...but from that point on...Kent is an afterthought...basically...here he is AFTER Superman visits...and pining AFTER Lois (I liked that angle...but with nothing else...it sucked). He had an affableness that was good...and COULD DO the Reeve part...but wasn't given the opportunity. Singer got caught up in the fucking Wolverine angst (and fucking casting cyclops in the cyclops role is just fucking gay...no pun intended)...which was a good thought...but it had to have the rest...the strength of Supe...and the googi affableness of Kent....and it didn't...which made the part thin...








Now...Kate Bosworth...I went into this film thinking the exact same as bob...she's to young...but you have to remember a few things...yeah...this is supposed to be 5 years after 2...but you also have to remember that it's a comic book onscreen. In which case...Lois in the comics...should be about 80...my point being...you have to suspend disbelief a bit...and it's not hard to believe that you run with Bosworth...yeah...22 is a bit young...

but she was actually quite good with what it gave her...started her off with the ode to Supe 2 in the eiffel...and showed her fire...

She had more meat than Routh to work with...but again...it wasn't enough...she wasn't the force that Kidder was...but mainly because she was fucking surrounded by to many fucking dudes...Marsden (who I thought was actually quite good...even though his role was cyclops), Routh...the kid...White...

there was to much protecting her...and not enough her taking charge...

yeah...she's eye candy...but as far as the realism goes...if you are looking for continuity in a movie that wasn't about continuity really...and at a Superman movie to boot...well...you get my point. She may have not been perfect for the role...and when I saw the pulitzer...I thought the same as bob...but again...if you give her the script she deserved...she could have been a better Lois Lane than Kidder...who was very good...

Kevin Spacey...not good...and I agree with everything that bob said. They needed to make him insane...and they tried. But they tried to throw the Hackman in there as well. Hackman's performance was brilliant...and the right mix of insane and humorous. What Spacey brings to the picture is "Hopper." If you know the movie I'm talking about...the crazed grasshopper from A Bug's Life. I wanted this Luthor to be crazy...angry...with the humor coming from Posey (who was as good as Valerie Perrine in the humor department...but again...not nearly as much developed. We knew about Ms. Tessmacher's family..through subtle dialogue...and got what made her tick...in the original...in this one...well...just a rip...


Bob was dead on about the other characters. Perry and Jimmy were central humor in the first movies...and Jimmy was heading there...but not a big part...and Perry was a waste really...

Fact of the matter is that the script felt like it was ripped thin because of special effects...

without the special effects...


More in my next post...

[POJO_Risin]

Now...the film does fucking rip off the Donner Films...and I know it was on purpose...but they had the fucking opportunity of a lifetime to do their own deal here...and didn't...

The second they used that worn out from "The Movie" land deal...I nearly walked out...

I'm fucking sick of people just walking into the "Fortress of Solitude." Am I the only fucker that remembers that fucking EVEN SUPERMAN LOCKS UP THE FORTRESS WHEN HE LEAVES...WITH ONE BIG ASS LOCK!

I am a bit disappointed that they didn't fix the Luthor/Kent friendship a bit. I know the Donner films don't follow the comic arc at all...but the basis of the comics are that Luthor and Kent were friends...at one time...

which is why the series is good...because it plays with that. Anyways...Spacey still...loses to Hackman because of writing...although both actors are so fucking similar...and perfectly cast.

Anyways...

am I the only one that wondered how Superman GOT TO KRYPTON...AND IF THERE WAS NOTHING THERE...HOW HE GOT THE SHIP TO GET BACK?

And how about this...could Lex have built his continent without killing Million of people?

and...

the final spoiler...that you could see coming from a mile away...um...Isn't Superman Truth, Justice and the American Way? Well...he nailed it on the head then. Christ...

and superman as a fucking stalker...you have to be kidding me. I liked the angst...don't get me wrong...and him trying to figure it out. But Donner did it grander and better...having Superman tell Brando to piss off...and turning back time...

that's fucking angst...

not a fucking superstalker...

and the article...I mean...for fuck sake...SUPERMAN SAVED LOIS IN THE HELICOPTER CRASH...THE EARTHQUAKE...THE EIFFEL TOWER...NIAGARA FALLS...

and fuck...she writes an article about not needed superman???

I do wonder...would Posey have been a better Lois?

I think a major problem is the assumption that people have seen the first 2 movies...

no background really...to speak of...

Well...Batman was remade...brilliantly I think...

Superman?

Well...if I wanted an homage to Richard Fucking Donner...I coulda watched one on TNT...in one of those lifetime award specials. I wanted a new superman movie...not some half-assed remake...

3 out of 10 may be to much...

I will say this bob...that question bothered me...how did Lois KNOW????

and after watching the movie again...I have to say...I'm not sure she did...

I think they had her play it like she didn't know it was Superman's kid...until she saw him fling the piano...

[Sarge's Little Helper]

Superman IS POJO

[bueno bob]

With a little time to let Superman Returns set in and mash itself around...I'm left with this...

1. Brandon Routh was a pretty decent Clark Kent...but a bad Superman...I'm not as concerned about his size now as I was previously; I just don't find him particularly appealing or convincing - when I see him on the screen, I see a guy wearing the costume and just can't convince myself that it's Superman, and that's really his and Bryan Singer's fault.

2. Kate Bosworth blows as Lois Lane...sorry, but I still don't like her in the role at all - too young and not "Lois Lane" enough for my taste.

3. Script sucked - too many holes - too many opportunities to do something better and all it ended up being was a remake of Superman: The Movie. In no way was it worth the numerous years of waiting, various directors, and incessent script re-writes to get here.

...but I'm still hopeful for the next Singer/Superman film...

[Cathedral]

I can't add any more to the reviews of Pojo and beuno, it had it's share of major problems.
I disagree with Routh's performance though, he did really good for what he was given to work with, IMO.

I even love what they did with the suit, it doesn't look like a Halloween Costume like the one Reeve wore in his films.

The stalker bit just pissed me off, they could have done that whole scene way differently than having him invade someone's privacy like a jealous Ex-boyfriend/husband.

And the 'prison-esque' scene where he was shanked in the kidney on the Krypto-Fort thingy with a piece of kryptonite was bullshit.

And how about the finely crafted seating that just formed on it's own complete with GOON table on that island Lex created?

First of all, that wound would have killed him long before he hit the bottom of the ocean.

I dunno, it was entertaining but, maybe i was just overly impressed with seeing it in IMAX 3-D.

Except for that shanking scene, which shocked my daughter a little, lol...I didn't feel ripped off.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by Sarge's Little Helper
Superman IS POJO

ROTMFFLMMFAO @ Super-Pojo-Man...

[ULTRAMAN VH]

Pojo and Lord Vader really did a great job reviewing the flick and breaking down its problems, so like Cat, I can't really add much. I really liked the special effects and felt that Routh really did a great job as Clark and the Man of Steel. Pojo made a very interesting point about Lane and I think Posey would have made a great Lois Lane. She is a far superior actress to Bosworth and would have made a scrappy Lois Lane. Maybe age was a factor with Posey being in her late 30'S. With the story picking up 5 years later, this could have worked. Bosworth was terribly miscast and had the personality of a Mr. Softy ice cream cone. Glad Pojo pointed this out.

[flappo]

i loved that film

i went to the premier at leciester square in 1980 when sarah douglas gave my family tickets as we did her wedding dress

[Vinnie Velvet]

SNEEK PEAK AT A FEW SCENES FROM THE SUPERMAN II-DONNER CUT!!!!!!

I believe these were presented at the recent Comic-Con.

Check it out!!!

http://www.iesb.net/index.php?option=com_d4j_ezine&task=read&page=1&category=11&article=47&Itemid=38

[Vinnie Velvet]

SUPER BUMP!

[ULTRAMAN VH]

Slightly off topic, but I just got to check out some of the episodes from the dvd release of the 3 and 4th seasons of Adventures Of Superman with George Reeves and the quality is excellent. I highly recommend it to die hard fans of The Man Of Steel. The stories are toned down and more directed toward children but to see this great series in color is worth it. The 1st and 2nd seasons were surprisingly violent with Superman taking on mobsters and crime syndicates. In one episode Lois Lane gets smacked around and gives back as good as she gets. Hard to believe for a fifties television show. The 1st Lois Lane in this series was excellent and really scrappy compared to the bone bag dimwit playing Lois in Superman Returns.

[POJO_Risin]

It's still playing here in IMAX 3D...maybe I'll check it out...

my PROBLEM with the special effects are that the best of the best are in the beginning...

that scene with the plane was perhaps the most action packed in ANY of the movies...and left me thinking...

oh fuck...the end is going to be incredible...

only to have Superman END UP IN THE FUCKING HOSPITAL!!!!

Singer...that fag...made Superman basically mortal...which...no offense...SUCKS ASS...

And as I've said before...

I'm not as high on Routh as Kent...although I think he did an okay job...it's just that Reeves was so fucking good...

that scene after Superman takes Lois flying around...and Clark is pounding on the door afterwards...

Lois answers the door...and goes to change...and Clark is bumbling...then decides to tell her who he his...and switches to Supe mode...then changes last second...

the transformation was fucking incredible...

anyways...Routh was a plausible Clark...and could have been a better Supe...

the script just sucked ass...

or...

Routh did...

but it really didn't seem like the vehicle was built for Supe to have much...

Where as Reeves was given a meaty role...it looks as though Routh was given the hambone smack to the face.

So...was it because of the script?

or the edits?

[bueno bob]

Honestly, I really want to see footage of Routh in that soap opera he starred in and compare his chops there against Superman Returns...

I think that'd tell me a lot about his acting skills right there.

Maybe he just looks the part but isn't convincing with a lot of "Superman" dialogue...

Could well be the case...?