The Strength and Power Workout Thread

[vandeleur]

Five seems to be the new number with regards to the gym .
I started that 5 of 5 thing last week for a change were you lift the weights slowly moving them on each number as you count to five and doing it five times in each set .. It properly burns , it's been a long time since a weigh session had me aching like that one .
I've probably explained that shite :D

[BigBadBrian]

Looks like a good workout for men but I think it might be a bit much for a women.Women in general like to tone and do cardio

I'll find a good beginner/intermediate routine for the women. The power routine probably IS a little much for the ladies. Just remember though that while cardio is great for strengthening your heart, which obviously everyone should incorporate into their workout, it is not the most effective way to burn fat. Having lean muscle mass does that, which means some sort of resistance training and watching what you eat. I always hit the weights in my workout first while I'm strongest and then do cardio.

[Dave's Bitch]

Good point yes.I may be wrong but it is my understanding that although a cardio session burns more during,The "after burn" from a fairly heavy weight session burns up a lot more than for a cardio session.I do low weight high reps exercises between cardio at the gym rather than weight then cardio,It works well for me.I am constantly back and to at the gym

[Yount]

I used to jog but the ice cubes kept falling out of my glass.

[katina]

I used to jog but the ice cubes kept falling out of my glass.

One of my favorite Rothisms !!!

[gbranton]

Five seems to be the new number with regards to the gym. I started that 5 of 5 thing last week for a change were you lift the weights slowly moving them on each number as you count to five and doing it five times in each set.

I used to manage a gym and did personal training for select clients during that time and have used a variety of different routines on myself and my clients over the years and new thinking backed by research is making waves in the personal training community.

The problem with doing the slow thing is the way it recruits muscle fibers, research is emerging that points to this not being the best way to train. It has been proven that the human body attempts to be efficient by responding to a load with the least amount of muscle fibers required to lift that load, basically the smallest motor units will always be recruited first; your largest will always be recruited last, in a fixed and orderly fashion. Furthermore you cannot sustain maximum motor unit recruitment for more than 15 seconds. A set of slow reps will last much longer than fifteen seconds and at that time fast fatiguing, fast twitch motor units that possess Type IIB muscle fibers are beginning to cease to fire. These motor units are capable of inducing huge amounts of strength and hypertrophy increases. Lifting slowly with any load less than 100% of your one rep maximum will not recruit all of your motor units. BUT you can make up the difference by attempting to lift all loads as fast as possible. So the reps should be performed FAST, concentrating on speed, range of motion, and technique.

Also if you concentrate on speed, you can work with smaller weights, making injury less probable AND get better results.

5X5 is not new, it dates back to at least the 1970's but research is starting to come around to what some bodybuilders have known for a long time, but with a twist: While 25 may indeed be the magic number, the number of reps per set is irrelevant. It's the total number of reps per exercise that matter, perform as many sets as it takes to get the reps with speed and perfect form. Perfect form determines the end of a set, the your form breaks down, rest. With a heavy load, one guy might need 4 sets, another guy might need 7 sets. All you need to think about is the target number of total reps, and the length of the rest periods.

The rest periods coincide with the load and goal of the workout. Since each workout is different, you would use different rest periods. Your rest periods are massively important because the rest allows you to keep the speed as fast as possible.

There is a fantastic book on all this that has quickly become very influential among all the trainers I know, it is called "Get Huge in a Hurry" by Chad Waterbury. Contrary to the title, it has a wealth of information, all backed by research, for all levels of fitness. It is a fantastic book, I highly recommend it, this book can change your whole way of thinking about weight training.

Incorporating these principles and a few others I have trained competitive athletes who had tried a variety of different regimens and gotten fantastic results.

[BigBadBrian]

I used to manage a gym and did personal training for select clients during that time and have used a variety of different routines on myself and my clients over the years and new thinking backed by research is making waves in the personal training community.

The problem with doing the slow thing is the way it recruits muscle fibers, research is emerging that points to this not being the best way to train. It has been proven that the human body attempts to be efficient by responding to a load with the least amount of muscle fibers required to lift that load, basically the smallest motor units will always be recruited first; your largest will always be recruited last, in a fixed and orderly fashion. Furthermore you cannot sustain maximum motor unit recruitment for more than 15 seconds. A set of slow reps will last much longer than fifteen seconds and at that time fast fatiguing, fast twitch motor units that possess Type IIB muscle fibers are beginning to cease to fire. These motor units are capable of inducing huge amounts of strength and hypertrophy increases. Lifting slowly with any load less than 100% of your one rep maximum will not recruit all of your motor units. BUT you can make up the difference by attempting to lift all loads as fast as possible. So the reps should be performed FAST, concentrating on speed, range of motion, and technique.

Also if you concentrate on speed, you can work with smaller weights, making injury less probable AND get better results.

5X5 is not new, it dates back to at least the 1970's but research is starting to come around to what some bodybuilders have known for a long time, but with a twist: While 25 may indeed be the magic number, the number of reps per set is irrelevant. It's the total number of reps per exercise that matter, perform as many sets as it takes to get the reps with speed and perfect form. Perfect form determines the end of a set, the your form breaks down, rest. With a heavy load, one guy might need 4 sets, another guy might need 7 sets. All you need to think about is the target number of total reps, and the length of the rest periods.

The rest periods coincide with the load and goal of the workout. Since each workout is different, you would use different rest periods. Your rest periods are massively important because the rest allows you to keep the speed as fast as possible.

There is a fantastic book on all this that has quickly become very influential among all the trainers I know, it is called "Get Huge in a Hurry" by Chad Waterbury. Contrary to the title, it has a wealth of information, all backed by research, for all levels of fitness. It is a fantastic book, I highly recommend it, this book can change your whole way of thinking about weight training.

Incorporating these principles and a few others I have trained competitive athletes who had tried a variety of different regimens and gotten fantastic results.

"Huge in a Hurry" is a great book, I have it in my library and highly recommend it. I've never said 5x5 was the most effective way to train...there are many ways to get from point A to point B. Dave's Bitch uses HIIT, also shown to be highly effective. As strength guru Mark Rippetoe has said: "everything works, some things just work better than others."

Personally, I'm using the 5/3/1 System by Jim Wendler. I've also studied the Westside Barbell Strength Template, which uses, among other things, speed days with heavy weights (no, not with heavy singles, doubles, or triples). The strongest powerlifters in the world, as an average, train at Westside (Columbus, OH).

Anyhow, your statement of "Also if you concentrate on speed, you can work with smaller weights, making injury less probable AND get better results" is not necessarily true. Speed CAN be accomplished with relatively heavy weights (relative speed, of course) AND has been shown to be no more dangerous than light weights with a proper warmup. Most people simply exhaust themselves on warmup sets and can't effectively handle heavy weights. With smaller weights, muscle endurance (sets of 13-20 reps) is trained vice strength and fibers IIb are minimally recruited. Heavy sets from 1-6 (not necessarily to failure but yet heavy nonetheless) are shown to recruit these fibers most effectively.

I agree with your statement "While 25 may indeed be the magic number, the number of reps per set is irrelevant." Progressions such as 8x3 are also effective for strength and fast-twitch fiber recruitment, after a good warmup, of course.

"Huge in a Hurry" has shown to work because it is a periodization-based routine involving different weight/set progressions that hit all muscle fiber types. Waterbury, if I recall correctly, adapted this from Dave Tate. Tate wrote an article(s) called "Periodization Bible I and II" which can be found in http://www.t-nation.com I've also read Chad Waterbury articles there.

gbranton, I look forward to you posting more in this thread.

[BigBadBrian]

gbranton, you may be interested in "The Waterbury Method" as found in t-nation.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/the_waterbury_method

[BigBadBrian]

Next up, an explanation of the Westside Method.

[katina]

I have been reading some interesting articles in http://www.t-nation.com
And this one by Brad Schoenfeld is very good, 4 Reasons You´re Not Gaining Muscle http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...gaining_muscle

[BigBadBrian]

I have been reading some interesting articles in http://www.t-nation.com
And this one by Brad Schoenfeld is very good, 4 Reasons You´re Not Gaining Muscle http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...gaining_muscle

t-nation does have some good articles. That was a great one you posted.

Here's the 5/3/1 system I'm on now:


Jim Wendler's 5/3/1

One mesocycle lasts 16 workouts, or a little over 5 weeks.

Each mesocycle has 4 microcycles or "waves".
Wave 1. Warmup, 75%x5, 80%x5, 85%x5
Wave 2. Warmup, 80%x3, 85%x3, 90%x3
Wave 3. Warmup, 75%x5, 85%x3, 95%x1
Wave 4. (deload) - 60%x5, 65%x5, 70%x5

Note: Wendler suggests that you underestimate your loading percentages by subtracting 10% from your 1RM when calculating weights; He also suggests that on the last set you can do an "all out rep max" lifting that weight as many times as possible. The goal is to get at least the specified number of reps with that weight and anything beyond that can be considered the dividends that your efforts have payed out. Only attempt extra reps on the final heavy set.

Each wave has 4 workouts:
A. Squat + assistance
B. Bench press + assistance
C. Deadlift + assistance
D. Military press + assistance

Wendler recommends 3 workouts per week. Example:
Week 1: A1, B1, C1
Week 2: D1, A2, B2
Week 3: C2, D2, A3
Week 4: B3, C3, D3
Week 5: A4, B4, C4
Week 6: D4, etc. ...

Optionally there is a second, less intensive, loading parameter:
Wave 1. Warmup, 65%x5, 75%x5, 85%x5
Wave 2. Warmup, 70%x3, 80%x3, 90%x3
Wave 3. Warmup, 75%x5, 85%x3, 95%x1
Wave 4 (Deload) - 60%x5, 65%x5, 70%x5


Substitutions

The main lifts can be substituted with variations (typically in subsequent mesocycles):
Squat - box squat, squat with bands, front squat, etc.
Bench press - board press, floor press, incline, etc.
Deadlift - rack pulls, deficit DL, etc.
Military press - push press, incline press, etc.

Assistance Work

Assistance work depends on your goals:
Base - just do the main lifts
Strength - just do 1-2 supplementary lifts, typically 3-5 sets x 6-20 reps
Bodybuilder - 3-4 supplementary lifts, including some isolation work, done for higher volume, typically 3-4 sets x 10-20 reps

Here is the "Strength" template assistance work from the book:

Squat Day

Squat: 5x10x50%
Leg Curls: 5x10

Bench Press Day

Bench Press: 5x10x50%
DB Rows: 5x10

Deadlift Day

Deadlift: 5x8x50%
Hanging Leg Raises: 5x12

Mil. Press Day

Mil. Press: 5x10x50%
Chins: 5 sets to failure.

Here is the bodybuilder template assistance work from the book:

Squat Day

Hack Squat: 4 sets of 10-20 reps
Leg Extensions: 4 sets of 10-30 reps
Leg Curls: 4 sets of 10-15 reps
Weighted Sit-ups: 4 sets of 10 reps

or

Leg Press – 4 sets of 10-20 reps
Leg Extensions – 4 sets of 10-30 reps
Leg Curls – 4 sets of 10-15 reps
Weighted Sit-ups – 4 sets of 10 reps

Bench Press Day

DB Bench Press: 4 sets of 10-20 reps
Dips (weighted): 4 sets of 8-15 reps
Fly's: 4 sets of 12 reps
Triceps Pushdowns: 4 sets of 10-20 reps

or

DB Incline Press – 4 sets of 10-20 reps
Dips (weighted) – 4 sets of 8-15 reps
Fly's – 4 sets of 12 reps
Triceps Extensions – 4 sets of 10-20 reps

Deadlift Day

Chins: 4 sets of 10-12 reps
DB Rows: 4 sets of 15 reps/arm
Back Raises: 4 sets of 10 reps (with bar behind neck)
Hanging Leg Raises: 4 sets of 15 reps

or

Lat Pulls – 4 sets of 10-12 reps
Bent Over Rows – 4 sets of 15 reps/arm
Reverse Hyperextensions – 4 sets of 12 reps
Hanging Leg Raises – 4 sets of 15 reps

Military Press Day

DB Military Press: 4 sets of 10 reps
Upright Rows: 4 sets of 10 reps
Side Laterals: 4 sets of 10-15 reps
Barbell Curls: 4 sets of 10 reps

or

Hammer Machine Military – 4 sets of 10 reps
Rope Upright Rows – 4 sets of 10 reps
Rear Laterals – 4 sets of 10-15 reps
DB Curls – 4 sets of 10 reps

[BigBadBrian]

Assistance Work

How much assistance work you do is up to you. Natural lifters should try to be in and out of the gym in 60 minutes. If you can't "hit it" in that period of time, you need to take a long, hard look at the rest periods you are taking between assistance work sets. A quote from Jim Wendler on training duration:

"People laugh and call me lazy, while they twit around in their three-hour workout making zero progress. Sometimes, instead of what you do in the weight room, it's what you don't do that will lead to success."

In the Wendler's 5/3/1 book, the following assistance plans are presented:

Boring But Big. - Main lift, the main lift again @ 5x10 (50% 1RM), and another accessory exercise for 5 sets.
The Triumvirate. - Main lift, and two assistance exercises - 5 sets each.
I'm Not Doing Jack Shit. - Main lift, and nothing else.
Periodization Bible by Dave Tate - Main lift, and 3 exercises - 5 x 10-20 reps each.
Bodyweight. - Main lift, and 2 bodyweight exercises such as the pull up, sit ups, dips, etc.

[BigBadBrian]

Just curious:

How many people have gym memberships (including YMCA or community center memberships)?

How many people workout at home? If so, where? (basement, garage, outside, etc.)

If you workout either at the gym or at home, what equipment do you use...free weights, machines, pilates stuff, Swiss ball, kettle bells, etc.?

[Dave's Bitch]

I had a gym membership but got myself a cross trainer,some light weights for toning and some other stuff so I work out at home

[vandeleur]

Db do you find it tough to motivate your self at home ? Is there not to many distractions .