The Map!!!!!!!!!

[Sgt Schultz]

Originally posted by John Ashcroft
And once again, they wonder why they continue to lose...


Hey Cock, who's the retard? The retard, or the people bested by the retard?

You guys are pathetic. But I have to say, I've been warning you guys about this for the last 4 years. You simply will not learn. Your arrogance and condescending attitude towards those who you disagree with is your downfall. It's not like Republican's just won the White House here either, they picked up seats in both houses of Congress you fool! And a bunch of state legislatures to boot!

And yet you still cling to the notion that "flyover" country is composed of rednecks and idiots, while you and those like you are the only "intelligent" beings left in the country. Again, enjoy your "brilliance" in the minority fella. And get ready for a whole bunch of policies that you geniuses don't agree with. But hey, look on the bright side! At least you're still smarter than everyone else, right?

BTW, I'm not sure if you truly understand the definition of intelligence. Seems to me, and intelligent person would have the ability to adapt to his enviornment, and quite possibly excel in it. You libs certainly haven't shown your ability to do so. But Bush is the idiot...

This is a brilliant post, well done.

The right wing of this country never looked at the left wingers in the 60s and beyond as "idots" and "morons" - they just thought that the left was wrong and misguided and they sought to chellenge and engage them intellectually - and they eventually won. If you want some advice (not likely) I think the left, if it really wants to start winning back political offices, needs to start being totally honest about what you believe and engaging with those whom you disagree with in a RATIONAL NON-HYSTERICAl way and to look at them as intellectual equals.

But, I don't think the left is ready for that yet. I expect more of the same.

[ODShowtime]

God damn it Schultz. You're one of the smartest and funniest people I've "met" on the internet. I don't understand where you come from except fear. That's the only explanation I can think of.

[Sgt Schultz]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
God damn it Schultz. You're one of the smartest and funniest people I've "met" on the internet. I don't understand where you come from except fear. That's the only explanation I can think of.

Thank you! You are too kind and generous.
I also believe you are too smart to remain entrenched in your current political frame of mind forever. You're still relatively young. I understand it was a looooong and nasty election, and that right now it is too soon to not feel hurt and disappointment. Raw emotion reigns supreme.

But once that has subsided I think we can all (well most of us) try to engage in a more reasonable political discourse.

'Fear' isn't a factor in my political thinking. I think I'm more of a Libertarian than a Republican, but the Libertarians are not in a position to win anything. So, I suppose I'm a pragmatist too. Yet I do have a strong reaction AGAINST political correctness and the radical left because I think that part of its modus operandi is the stifling of free speech and radical thought - that they disagree with – through intimidation. Attending the UW Madison, living in a STRONG “blue” area of the country, being a former teacher and a member of a teacher’s union, and being married to a woman who has a degree in Women’s Studies (who voted for Bush) has given me a lot of experience with how the left operates. So as you can see, I'm not afraid to interact with and live amongst those whom I disagree with politically.

I believe that the problem with MOST people who are left-leaning politically is is that they rarely have to interact, on a daily basis, for years and years, with other people who they politically disagree with. They all think the same, vote the same etc etc and rarely have to critically examine WHY they think the way they do. Of course this may also be true of some right wingers but I think it is much more the case for lefties. The media is predimonantly left-leaning too, so it is yet another source of support for what the left already believes.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Sgt Schultz
Thank you! You are too kind and generous.
I also believe you are too smart to remain entrenched in your current political frame of mind forever. You're still relatively young. I understand it was a looooong and nasty election, and that right now it is too soon to not feel hurt and disappointment. Raw emotion reigns supreme.

It wasn't that much of a compliment, look who you are being compared to...

Throw me a bone here. If the dems would have fielded a respectable candidate in your eyes, would you have voted for him?

Or are you actually, truthfully pleased with w's "leadership"?

[DLR'sCock]

Well, the truth is that the RIGHT Wing and the extreme right wing are very wrong and wholefully misguided. That's what gives the string pullers of the party the power and the base that they have....


Look, over 50% of BUSH VOTERS believe that Saddam Hussein was responsible for 9-11, and the stockpiles of WMD's that were an iminent threat the the USA are there or have been found....


I really think that there are alot of very good people out there that voted for Bush, but have come to believe the lies and deception that have been rammed down their throat repeatedly over and over and over again so that the agenda will continue...


Step by steo and inch by inch a fascist extreme fanatical right wing mindset is taking over, and that's quite scary.

The one's that shoot first and don't bother asking quesitons are the extremists.....just like the extreme fanatical muslims...



Hitler did it, and so many other dictators did it....history is still in it's continuous loop....


Those that want power and want the masses to follow without question will use Fear, by saying the "we or I" am the only ones who can SAVE YOU!!!!


BE SAVED AMERICA!!!!!


be saved....

[Sgt Schultz]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
It wasn't that much of a compliment, look who you are being compared to...

Throw me a bone here. If the dems would have fielded a respectable candidate in your eyes, would you have voted for him?

Or are you actually, truthfully pleased with w's "leadership"?

Probably not. I guess it depends on who the Dem candidate would be. I just can't hink of a 'respectable' one off the top of my head right now. It would also depend, of course, on their views and ideas.

I AM actually pleased with 'W's leadership. He's been a very strong leader.

[Sgt Schultz]

Originally posted by DLR'sCock
Look, over 50% of BUSH VOTERS believe that Saddam Hussein was responsible for 9-11, and the stockpiles of WMD's that were an iminent threat the the USA are there or have been found....

Do you have a link for that info? I'd be interested in seeing it. I'm not saying you are lying, I'd just like to read the source.

[Angel]

Originally posted by frenchie
TONIGHT, A GUY CALLED OUSSAMA BEN LADEN IS GOING TO LAUGH
THAT'S THE PROBLEM!!!!

He started laughing when he got the call from George telling him to release the tape that came out right before the election!

[Jesus Christ]

There is only one Leader who can truly save you, and He is not the Son of Bush

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by DLR'sCock
Look, over 50% of BUSH VOTERS believe that Saddam Hussein was responsible for 9-11, and the stockpiles of WMD's that were an iminent threat the the USA are there or have been found....

Ah... actually 3/4 http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/showt...threadid=12094

I really think that there are alot of very good people out there that voted for Bush, but have come to believe the lies and deception that have been rammed down their throat repeatedly over and over and over again so that the agenda will continue...

You're right DLR's Cock, but they are all guilty of being bamboozled. Ignorance is no excuse under the law. These 60 million people have validated bush's wars. They have told the world that what gw&friends have done is ok. God help us ALL now...

[DLR'sCock]

Originally posted by Sgt Schultz
Do you have a link for that info? I'd be interested in seeing it. I'm not saying you are lying, I'd just like to read the source.

Sgt., at the moment I don't have the time to find it, but I had heard that statistic repeated many many times on Cable News Channels such as MSNBC and CNN, I particularly remember it being discussed on Hardball and a few other news discussion group programs on television....

[Warham]

I never knew so many liberals that prayed to God. Amazing!

[Sgt Schultz]

Originally posted by DLR'sCock
Sgt., at the moment I don't have the time to find it, but I had heard that statistic repeated many many times on Cable News Channels such as MSNBC and CNN, I particularly remember it being discussed on Hardball and a few other news discussion group programs on television....

I believe you, I'd just like to examine the report and source for myself. Jsut off the top of my head I'd be careful by making the leap that just because someone thinks that al Queda and Saddam worked together that they ALSO think that Saddam was responsible for 9/11 - two different things entirely.

[ODShowtime]

Schultz, follow the link in my post above. The source is not the biggest poll ever, but looks ok to me.

[DLR'sCock]

Originally posted by Sgt Schultz
I believe you, I'd just like to examine the report and source for myself. Jsut off the top of my head I'd be careful by making the leap that just because someone thinks that al Queda and Saddam worked together that they ALSO think that Saddam was responsible for 9/11 - two different things entirely.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...31098444910&e=3


Three of Four Bush Supporters Still Believe in Iraqi WMD, al Qaeda Ties

Jim Lobe, OneWorld US


WASHINGTON, D.C. Oct 21 (OneWorld) – Three out of four self-described supporters of President George W. Bush still believe that pre-war Iraq had weapons of mass destruction (WMD) or active programs to produce them and that Iraqi President Saddam Hussein provided “substantial support” to al Qaeda, according to a new survey released here Thursday.

Moreover, as many or more Bush supporters hold those beliefs today than they did several months ago, before the publication of a series of well-publicized official government reports that debunked both notions.

Those are among the most striking findings of the survey, which was conducted in mid-October by the University of Maryland’s Program on International Policy Attitudes (PIPA) and Knowledge Networks, a California-based polling firm.

The survey, which polled the views of nearly 900 randomly chosen respondents equally divided between Bush supporters and those intending to vote for Democratic Sen. John Kerry, found a yawning gap in the world views, particularly as regards pre-war Iraq, between the two groups.

“It is normal during elections for supporters of presidential candidates to have fundamental disagreements about values or strategies,” according to an analysis produced by PIPA. “The current election is unique in that Bush supporters and Kerry supporters have profoundly different perceptions of reality. In the face of a stream of high-level assessments about pre-war Iraq, Bush supporters cling to the refuted beliefs that Iraq had WMD or supported al Qaeda.”

showtime says: people are fucking morons

Indeed, the only issue on which the survey found broad agreement between the two sets of voters was on the question of whether the Bush administration itself has been actively propagating the misconceptions about Iraq’s WMD and connections to al Qaeda.

“One of the reasons that Bush supporters have these (erroneous) beliefs is that they perceive the Bush administration confirming them,” noted Steven Kull, PIPA’s director. “Interestingly, this is one point on which Bush and Kerry supporters agree.”

The survey also found a major gap between Bush’s stated positions on a number of international issues and what his supporters believe Bush’s position to be. A strong majority of Bush supporters believe, for example that the president supports a range of international treaties and institutions which is actually on record as opposing.

On pre-war Iraq, the survey asked each respondent questions about WMD and links to al Qaeda on three levels: 1) what the respondents themselves believed about the two issues; (2) what they believed that “most experts” had concluded about them; and 3) what they believed the Bush administration was saying about them.

The survey found that 72 percent of Bush supporters believe either that Iraq had actual WMD (47 percent) or a major program for producing them (25 percent), despite the widespread media coverage in early October of the Central Intelligence Agency “Duelfer Report,” the final word on the subject by the one billion dollar, 15-month investigation by the Iraq Survey Group.

It found that that Hussein had dismantled all of his WMD programs shortly after the 1991 Gulf War and had never tried to reconstitute them.

Nonetheless, 56 percent of Bush supporters said they believed that most experts currently believe that Iraq had actual WMD, and 57 percent said they thought that the Duelfer Report had itself concluded that Iraq either had WMD (19 percent) or a major WMD program (38 percent).

Only 26 percent of Kerry supporters, by contrast, said they believed that pre-war Iraq had either actual WMD or a WMD program, and only 18 percent said they believed that “most experts” agreed.

Similar results were found with respect to Hussein’s alleged support for al Qaeda, a theory that has been most persistently asserted by Vice president Dick Cheney, but that was thoroughly debunked by the final report of the bipartisan 9/11 Commission earlier this summer.

showtime says: dick, you're a fucking liar!

Seventy-five percent of Bush supporters said they believed that Iraq was providing “substantial” support to Al Qaeda, with 20 percent asserting that Iraq was directly involved in the 9/11 attacks on New York and the Pentagon. Sixty-three percent of Bush supporters even believed that the clear evidence of such support has actually been found, and 60 percent believe that “most experts” have reached the same conclusion.

By contrast, only 30 percent of Kerry supporters said they believe that such