Vote Recount to Settle Doubts?

[4moreyears]

What is so illegal? Outsourcing? If that is your answer; then how can our companies compete with global companies who take advantage of lower labor costs to provide goods and services to the global market place?

JH

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by Warham
Hate to break this to ya Cock, but this country was founded with the Judeo-Christian theology in mind.

No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Say it isn't so!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[FORD]

Crime #2 - the existence of "global" companies who believe themselves to be above all governments, all laws, and probably God Himself.

If you are a US company, you hire a US workforce, you pay them a liveable US wage (including reasonable benefits) you do your manaufacturing in the US, you pay your taxes in the US - not dodge them by making your corporate HQ a PO Box in the Cayman Islands.

What's so complicated about that?

[Switch84]

Originally posted by 4moreyears
If they are doing everything legally why are they entitled to pay someone more than someone else? I think the market place should determine someones wage. the value they bring to the workforce and market place. It is obvously that many CEO's can get multi million dollar salaries; because they provide value to the stockholders. As unfortunate as it is; the guy in the back swinging a hammer or manufacturing a product provides the value for which he is paid. YOu can hate it but that is the way it is; and the way it should be.

JH

That has got to be the most heartless, asinine statement I've seen posted today, Dude! If it weren't for the 'guy swinging the hammer' or manufacturing the product, the elitist CEOs wouldn't have the billions they horde. You're not going to see William Clay Ford Jr. working on the assembly line.

What you're advocating is slavery, pure and simple. If the so-called 'little people' were to walk out from every job nationwide for ONE DAY, this country would shut completely down! There isn't enough illegals to work it (or even have the skills) before you go there, baby!

[4moreyears]

If you are a US company, you hire a US workforce, you pay them a liveable US wage (including reasonable benefits) you do your manaufacturing in the US

All it takes is one company to go overseas and they get the market share while companies manufacturing products in the USA will close there doors. In some cases the US workers will not take some of the lower wage jobs and those that do are sometimes over paid for the job they do. Sometimes with shipping costs included it is less expensive to get product overseas and quality is much higher. If that is the case why would I higher and American worker. TO pay him more money for a lower caliber work? Would you pay steak prices for a McDonalds hamburger? In some cases that is what you get!!!

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Warham
Hate to break this to ya Cock, but this country was founded with the Judeo-Christian theology in mind.

Actually it was founded on the age reason and based on the principles of the enlightenment which sought to minimize religious affiliations between church and state in order to prevent the abuses taking place in England and other European countries. Which founding father was a big Christian? George Washington? No. Ben Franklin? No. Thomas Jefferson. Definitely not.

I really wonder where the origin of this myth comes that somehow all the founding fathers where seeking to set up a Christian theocratic state and somehow all these pinko-Liberals came in to subvert this and started an official Satan worshipping policy.

What specifically makes you believe that America was to be a state-sanctioned Christian nation?

[FORD]

Originally posted by ELVIS
No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Say it isn't so!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well if only it were so....

But considering the country was founded with slave labor on stolen land, the theology wasn't exactly "Christian" even then.

Ironically, the most obvious example of someone following JC's teachings back then was probably the Native Americans of the Plymouth Colony who fed the Pilgrims and taught them how to survive winter on this continent (a timely reminder, given the season)

Like I said, there's the irony... the "heathen savages" who had never even read the Bible were living the teaching "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". If they would have known what the Pilgrims descendants would later do, ya think they might have let them starve?

[4moreyears]

That has got to be the most heartless, asinine statement I've seen posted today,

I personally have nothing against the working man. But they have no control over the situation. It is that simple. I am just making an observation that is reality. Look at the following examples and it will tell you what I mean.

Situation 1

In 1995 I own a company that has a statisical annalysis department which employs 10 people. because business is becoming more global; I need to be able to compete with overseas competition who most likely does not play by the same rules we do. Then I find a new software program that in 3 years allows me to get the same output of work done by 6 people. Continuing upgrades to the software; and additional advances in computer technology allow me to trim my manpower to 4 in another 3 years. When it gets cut in half in another 2 years.

Situation 2

A doctor who used a dictation device to record notes sends out the tapes to be typed and for his records. These notes are needed for reference for the benefit of the insurance companies. Advancements to technology introduce him to a MP3 format dictation device where he can upload the files to his pc for easy storage than the paper copies. Then he realizes he can e-mail these files anywhere in the world for their translation from voice to data. Continuing financial pressures from the Insurance companies force the doctor to e-mail the files overseas because he can get the translations done for a fraction of the price that he was paying for the same service to get done in his same town.

In my opinion this is what is happening to the jobs in this country. Paul Zane Pilzer predicted this in his 1991 best seller Unlimited Wealth. If you are not familiar with Paul's work it is fascinating and I highly recommend you try to find his book on Amazon. You will mostly have to find a used copy because I think it is out of print. These types of scenarios are happening all over the country. This can not be stopped. Our country is the greatest country in the world, but if you are in a position that can be out sourced; plan on it. I think this is why the President said in the third debates that if you are worried about your job, get more education. He knows he can't stop the advancement of technology and globalization of business.
JH

[Switch84]

Originally posted by 4moreyears
I personally have nothing against the working man. But they have no control over the situation. It is that simple. I am just making an observation that is reality. Look at the following examples and it will tell you what I mean.

Situation 1

In 1995 I own a company that has a statisical annalysis department which employs 10 people. because business is becoming more global; I need to be able to compete with overseas competition who most likely does not play by the same rules we do. Then I find a new software program that in 3 years allows me to get the same output of work done by 6 people. Continuing upgrades to the software; and additional advances in computer technology allow me to trim my manpower to 4 in another 3 years. When it gets cut in half in another 2 years.

Situation 2

A doctor who used a dictation device to record notes sends out the tapes to be typed and for his records. These notes are needed for reference for the benefit of the insurance companies. Advancements to technology introduce him to a MP3 format dictation device where he can upload the files to his pc for easy storage than the paper copies. Then he realizes he can e-mail these files anywhere in the world for their translation from voice to data. Continuing financial pressures from the Insurance companies force the doctor to e-mail the files overseas because he can get the translations done for a fraction of the price that he was paying for the same service to get done in his same town.

In my opinion this is what is happening to the jobs in this country. Paul Zane Pilzer predicted this in his 1991 best seller Unlimited Wealth. If you are not familiar with Paul's work it is fascinating and I highly recommend you try to find his book on Amazon. You will mostly have to find a used copy because I think it is out of print. These types of scenarios are happening all over the country. This can not be stopped. Our country is the greatest country in the world, but if you are in a position that can be out sourced; plan on it. I think this is why the President said in the third debates that if you are worried about your job, get more education. He knows he can't stop the advancement of technology and globalization of business.
JH

Yeah, we are turning into the "Matrix" and "The Terminator" in the computer technology sense. We want convenience and that means accomplishing more with less. I'm 100% behind the education angle, which is why I'm upgrading my skills now.

We're at the 'sink or swim' point in the employment pool, and noone is drown proof.

[Warham]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Actually it was founded on the age reason and based on the principles of the enlightenment which sought to minimize religious affiliations between church and state in order to prevent the abuses taking place in England and other European countries. Which founding father was a big Christian? George Washington? No. Ben Franklin? No. Thomas Jefferson. Definitely not.

I really wonder where the origin of this myth comes that somehow all the founding fathers where seeking to set up a Christian theocratic state and somehow all these pinko-Liberals came in to subvert this and started an official Satan worshipping policy.

What specifically makes you believe that America was to be a state-sanctioned Christian nation?

I never believed that the government was to sanction any religion, including Christianity. That's why the separation of church and state exists in the first place.

After I did some research just now, I realize what I posted before was a bit hasty. It seems that some of our founding fathers were a bit 'nasty' in regards to the Bible.

Please pardon that error on my part.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Warham
I never believed that the government was to sanction any religion, including Christianity. That's why the separation of church and state exists in the first place.

After I did some research just now, I realize what I posted before was a bit hasty. It seems that some of our founding fathers were a bit 'nasty' in regards to the Bible.

Please pardon that error on my part.

They were products of their time learning from the mistakes of those that used religion to consolidate their political power while not abiding it.

That does not mean the founding fathers were anti-religious or non-spiritual, merely that they believed that one's beliefs and spirituality should be reflected in one's actions, not in one's political rhetoric or institutional foundations. That's my belief anyway.

[Warham]

Your beliefs seem to be correct on this matter.

[ELVIS]

Hmmm...

[Warham]

Originally posted by ELVIS
Hmmm...

What can I say?

John Adams:

"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved--the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!"--John Adams in a letter to Thomas Jefferson

"But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legaends, hae been blended with both Jewish and Chiistian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed.--John Adams in a letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, Dec. 27, 1816, _2000_Years_of_Disbelief_, John A. Haught

"The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines, and whole carloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity." --John Adams

Benjamin Franklin

"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches."--Benjamin Franklin, _Poor_Richard_, 1758

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."--Benjamin Franklin, _Poor_Richard_, 1758

"I cannot conceive otherwise than that He, the Infinite Father, expects or requires no worship or praise from us, but that He is even infinitely above it." -- Benjamin Franklin, _Articles_Of_Belief_and_Acts_of_Religion_, Nov.20, 1728

"I wish it (Christianity) were more productive of good works ... I mean real good works ... not holy day keeping, sermon-hearing ... or making long prayers, filled with flatteries and compliments despised by wise men, and much less capable of pleasing the Deity." -- Benjamin Franklin , _Works_ Vol.VII, p.75

"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects of Christianity, we shall find few that have not in turns been persecutors and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in Pagans, but practiced it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England blamed persecution on the Roman church, but preactied i on the Puritans. They found it wrong in Bishops, but fell into the practice both here (England) and in New England"--Benjamin Franklin, _Poor_Richard_, 1758

"When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obliged to call for help of the civil power, 'tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one." -- Benjamin Franklin, _2000_Years_of_Disbelief_ by James A. Haught


"Religion I found to be without any tendency to inspire, promote, or confirm morality, serves principally to divide us and make us unfriendly to one another."--Benjamin Franklin

Thomas Jefferson

"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are serviley crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God, because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blind faith." -- Thomas Jefferson

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State."--Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Association on Jan. 1, 1802, _The_Writings_of_Thomas_Jefferson_Memorial_Edition _, edited by Lipscomb and Bergh, 1903-04, 16:281

"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."--Thomas Jefferson, _Notes_on_Virginia_, _Jefferson_the_President:_First_Term_1801-1805_, Dumas Malon, Boston: Little Brown and Company, 1970, p. 191

"...no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship ministry or shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief, but all men shall be free to profess and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise.. affect their civil capacities."--Thomas Jefferson, _Statute_for_Religious_Freedom_, 1779, _The_Papers_of_Thomas_Jefferson_, edited by Julron P. Boyd, 1950, 2:546

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Warham
What can I say?

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State."--Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Association on Jan. 1, 1802, _The_Writings_of_Thomas_Jefferson_Memorial_Edition _, edited by Lipscomb and Bergh, 1903-04, 16:281

AMEN! Jefferson saw Jesus, first and formost, as a humanist philosopher.