Arnie's Coming people...don't doubt it...

[FORD]

Originally posted by John Ashcroft
Ah, but she wasn't. We had to apply for it post-birth. It took a couple of months.

Was your wife a US citizen at the time? I was always under the impression that a child born to US citizens was automatically a citizen regardless of where he or she was born. One of my grandfathers was actually born in Hong Kong -his parents were working in China as missionaries. He was a citizen from birth as far as I know.

Hell, even my friends who recently adopted a baby in China had the paperwork taken care of so that she was a US citizen the minute the plane hit US airspace.

[John Ashcroft]

Wife's a born and raised resident of Oklahoma (why else did you think I live in this shit-hole of a state? J.K.) I'm quite sure there are peculiar rules regarding my daughter. And I'm also pretty sure her birthplace excludes her from eligibility for the Presidency. I could be wrong.

[Top Jimmy]

Truth be told...I'll vote for Arnie for pres if it ever happens.

[knuckleboner]

Originally posted by John Ashcroft
Wife's a born and raised resident of Oklahoma (why else did you think I live in this shit-hole of a state? J.K.) I'm quite sure there are peculiar rules regarding my daughter. And I'm also pretty sure her birthplace excludes her from eligibility for the Presidency. I could be wrong.

glad to (mostly) prove you wrong on this one, mr. AG:

she should be eligible. the constitution only requires:

U.S. Constitution, Article II, Section 1:
No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President

(source:)

so, the question remains, what is the interpretation of "natural born Citizen," since the Constitutuion does not specifically require the president to be born within the territorial boundaries of the U.S.

congress felt the need to expound on "natural born Citizen:"

U.S. Code, Title 8, Section 1401:

Section 1401. Nationals and citizens of United States at birth

The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United
States at birth:

(c) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying
possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United
States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States
or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such
person;

(d) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying
possessions of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United
States who has been physically present in the United States or
one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one
year prior to the birth of such person, and the other of whom is
a national, but not a citizen of the United States;

(e) a person born in an outlying possession of the United
States of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States
who has been physically present in the United States or one of
its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year at
any time prior to the birth of such person;

(source:)

i think either (c) or (d) would probably apply to your daughter, making her a natural citizen from birth, according to the congress.

now, it's true, that if she were to run for president, the supreme court might ultimately have to rule on whether congress' interpretation of the constitution was proper. but, i think the congressional law is in keeping with the constitution and should be seen as valid.

dude, the lincoln bedroom's all yours!!

[FORD]

Originally posted by John Ashcroft
Interesting that a chimp has advanced farther in life than any of us...

Just think of where you could be if Poppy Bush was your old man.

[FORD]

Originally posted by John Ashcroft
Wife's a born and raised resident of Oklahoma (why else did you think I live in this shit-hole of a state? J.K.) I'm quite sure there are peculiar rules regarding my daughter. And I'm also pretty sure her birthplace excludes her from eligibility for the Presidency. I could be wrong.

Just thought I'd ask, since it's not unusual for military guys to get married overseas. And the fact that circumstances might be more questionable in a case where the father was a US citizen, but the mother was not. Of course even that one would be solved by marriage.

Anyway, as KB pointed out, your daughter should be OK if she ever decided to run. Otherwise military families would have an actual reason to claim bias, as opposed to the fabricated lie over ineligible ballots in Florida

[John Ashcroft]

Thanks guys. I still think it has to do with the whole "possession of the United States" deal. I've heard talk on this particular subject a long time ago, while stationed in Germany, and some of it's coming back. I remember that the kids born on military bases over there were fine and dandy (I.E. US possesion). It was the people in our situation that lived out in the community that had special circumstances applied. My daughter was born in a civilian, German hospital (Heinsburg). I had to register her in the local "rathaus" (town hall, but I like their name better...). And like I've mentioned, we actually had to apply for her U.S. citizenship through the U.S. Consulate, just like any other German would have to do. I remember not liking the whole process because I thought since our situation was so obvious, and certainly not unique, that stuff like this would've been worked out long ago. I'm still not certain she qualifies.

[knuckleboner]

i hear ya. but read (c) from 8 U.S. 1401 again:

"(c) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying
possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United
States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States
or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such
person;"


if you can tell me how your situation doesn't qualify your daughter for natural-born citizenship, then i'll be the first to nominate the AG for the 9th circuit!!

[John Ashcroft]

Because Heinsburg Hospital isn't one of the U.S.'s outlying possesions. I'm telling ya, it's why we had to apply for citizenship rather than it being automatic.

But the interesting part is "and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person;" I think that covers us. Still, it was a strange experience, I can assure you. I had to prove we (Mrs. Ashcroft and I) were citizens of the U.S. to get her citizenship.

But anyway, I'll take that 9th Circus appointment, if I can be Chief Justice. And since they create law, I'll grant myself the authority to fire them all.

And about my daughter, she most certainly will be capable of being President some day should she decide that route. But I assure you she'll be a Conservative (or I'll disown her!).

[FORD]

Originally posted by John Ashcroft
Because Heinsburg Hospital isn't one of the U.S.'s outlying possesions. I'm telling ya, it's why we had to apply for citizenship rather than it being automatic.

But the interesting part is "and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person;" I think that covers us. Still, it was a strange experience, I can assure you. I had to prove we (Mrs. Ashcroft and I) were citizens of the U.S. to get her citizenship.

But anyway, I'll take that 9th Circus appointment, if I can be Chief Justice. And since they create law, I'll grant myself the authority to fire them all.

And about my daughter, she most certainly will be capable of being President some day should she decide that route. But I assure you she'll be a Conservative (or I'll disown her!).

I think you're misinterpreting the quoted law. It's not the issue of whether the hospital was a US "outlying posession" - which it clearly wasn't , being a German civilian hospital. What the law is saying is that you and your wife must be residents of the US or it's "outlying posessions" and since you're both Okies, that qualifies (I guess that's in America )

Perhaps the confusion on the part of the authorities came from the fact that your daughter was born in a German hospital, rather than in a military hospital.

Not that I blame you for that, given the horror stories I hear about Madigan!

[knuckleboner]

yeah, section (c) says that if the person was born OUTSIDE of the U.S. or it's outlying possessions, they can be citizens from birth if...

and you and your wife clearly qualify for the "if."

i think you had to apply for citizenship just to PROVE that she deserved citizenship by birth. for the knuckleboner, it wasn't necessary, since my birth certificate says, "carmel by the sea, california." even if my parents were illegal, the birth certificate alone is enough for me to be a citizen by birth.

but Ms. AG, jr.'s birth certificate says, "germany." so you had to apply for, and prove that she deserved to be a citizen by birth. and once you said you and your wife were both U.S. citizens, and that at least one of you had a residence in the U.S. or it's outlying possessions at some time prior to your daughter's birth, under (c) of 8 U.S. 1401, she qualified for citizenship by birth.

and while that hasn't technically been tested in terms of the presidency just yet, the inference (and i think the final judgment) is that means she's a "natural born Citizen," and eligible for the presidency.

however, at this point, since i've done the legwork to get her there, i'll excpect some sort of appointment. maybe the AG, if you're retiring. or maybe an ambassadorship to sweden. or maybe appointed the domestic ski czar. but something!

[John Ashcroft]

Heh heh heh... You've got it!

[knuckleboner]

sweet! if she's as conservative as you hope for, i promise to keep my mouth shut and not embarrass the administration with babbling. i'm just along for the ride!!

[Seshmeister]

If she's white and rich and willing to sell her soul she has a chance.