Iraqi resistance shoots down US helicopter!

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
I can't believe I'm sticking up for the Werhmact to a German. This place is crazy!

Actually one of the dark little secrets in Germany is that the Wehrmacht DID in fact contribute to the atrocities in WWII. There was an exhibit a few years ago showing photos of regular German Army troops executing people.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Actually one of the dark little secrets in Germany is that the Wehrmacht DID in fact contribute to the atrocities in WWII. There was an exhibit a few years ago showing photos of regular German Army troops executing people.

Some did commit war crimes, I'm not arguing that. But just like how the entire US Army shouldn't be judged by that actions of a few (lindey&graner come to mind), neither should the Wermacht SOLDIERS.

It doesn't really matter really. The fuckers blew up most of Europe, which isn't polite.

[kentuckyklira]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
It's all about context. Read his sig. It's absolutely revolting. Couple that with his posting the story in the first place and making the insinuation that the resistance shot down the helo and people tend to get pissed. It's understandable.

That´s known as

"Mission Accomplished"!

[Sgt Schultz]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
My rhetoric? Okay Neo Con, defend the War then! You're the one throwing around your bullshit talk radio lingo. The Left being hyperbolic, sorry, but this war has been predicated on fear, faulty logic, pseudo-morality, those are all hyperboles from the right. The only one smoking crack here is you which is made apparent by your phony, contrived defenses of this war and your utter lack of knowledge of anything military.

You can keep calling what I say “bullshit” but you still can’t dispute then umbers I cited. Any child can sit and bitch about how the war is not going perfectly, especially when they have invested everything into hoping that it will fail because they hate the commander in chief. No war is perfect, clean or without cost but that is exactly how military experts like yourself claim this war must be to be considered a success. You and Teddy Kennedy say that before the war is even over that we have already lost. Pathetic. Did the Union win the Civil War? Hundreds of thousands dead, the President assassinated, half the country in ruins and occupied and rebels still roaming the countryside. You guys would have claimed without a doubt that there would be no way the Union could claim “victory”. You can substitute any war and with your “We lost no matter what” – “Bush Hate” mindset and consider it a lost war. You can also point out any time where I am lacking in military history.

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
People like you are responsible for the death of these troops, your mindless, callous bullshit! But you have the nerve to blame the German guy, who doesn't want them there dying, for giving you the bad news. Yeah, you rightists are all for the troops getting killed for your cheap fucking gasoline. I actually think the German guy even cares more about those Marines. You cite bullshit, meaningless statistics to show how empathetic the congress is! Yeah right. Why don't you go write an essay about how evil Clinton is for covering up a blowjob and praise the mighty Bush for consistently misrepresenting every fact regarding Iraq. Tell me all about partisan hyperbole!

People like me? I think not. The terrorists and Ba’athists still fighting in Iraq are doing so precisely because people like YOU “and the German guy” are giving them encouragement to continue. And they you are so simple minded as to think that I am “blaming the messenger (The German guy)” because he brings for bad news. Have you READ his signature? I maintain that he, and others of his ilk, are celebrating any American setback in Iraq and THAT is EXACTLY why he posted it.

Yes that’s right, continue the juvenile protest-placard style of criticism of people who were in favor of ousting Hussein – that’s right, I’m glad Americans are dying in Iraq so I can have cheap gas. How stupid. But, “No Blood For Oil” fits nicely on a bumper sticker. If you think the German guy “cares” more for American troops in Iraq I’ll repeat that you must be smoking crack. I never said Congress was “empathetic”, I only pointed out that the left’s Michael Moronic Chickenhawk argument is at about the same intellectual level of a 4 year-old. Clinton? I never brought him up – you did.

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
No, you brought the numbers in because you are pissed we lost chess pieces, not human beings. All you care about is if we win or lose, as if this War is some big fucking football game. You'd send thousands more to their death before you realize that we can't win and the long term prognosis for Iraq is fucking bleak! But Dubya said everything will be fine after the election! So it must be so! Praise gaud, eh sunshine?

Again, who’s hyperbolic here? Can I get a ruling judge? Of course I want the U.S. to win the war – and you don’t? I know that most left-winger Bush haters DON’T want the U.S. to win.

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
You were pissed off at the German only because he dared implied that the Iraqi insurgents may have scored a touchdown on us. You are truly the typical fool filled with blind hubris that can't see the forest through the trees. The typical right-wing Republican that has never served, but is so puffed up on supa'-patriotic pride that he has no moral right to have since life-long civilians talking about war is like a virgin talking about sex. It's a nebulous concept full of misguided preconceptions. You are far closer to being a callous tyrant than that German, because at least they have learned their lessons about following their beloved leaders blindly and shoving tanks around the world to solve all their problems. And Iraq still never attacked us on 9/11.

No, for the most part I didn’t like his post because it contained false PROPOGANDA. Oops, here we are back at the Chickenhawk argument. Can’t you think of anything else? That’s all you’ve got? Should U.S. Presidents be required to have served in the military? What of the veterans who are in support of the war in Iraq? This lame argument has no legs to stand on when examined in any depth but on the surface it sounds good to left-wingers. Comparing Nazi aggression to the U.S. using it’s military? Wow. You can’t seriously compare the wars of European aggression to the United States’ use of military power. Apples and oranges – and it is this simplistic comparison that always negates this notion of the Germans knowing that the use of a military is EVIL – no matter what.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Sgt Schultz
I never said Congress was “empathetic”, I only pointed out that the left’s Michael Moronic Chickenhawk argument is at about the same intellectual level of a 4 year-old. Clinton? I never brought him up – you did.

Do you understand how stupid you and all of the people like you sound when you discount everything liberals say about the war by saying they got it from a fucking movie? You really should know better than that.

See, the "fight 'em in Iraq instead of here" bullshit really is aimed at people with the intellect of 4 year olds. I don't understand how someone could have such rich background knowledge and completely miss the big picture.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Sgt Schultz
You can keep calling what I say “bullshit” but you still can’t dispute then umbers I cited. Any child can sit and bitch about how the war is not going perfectly, especially when they have invested everything into hoping that it will fail because they hate the commander in chief. No war is perfect, clean or without cost but that is exactly how military experts like yourself claim this war must be to be considered a success. You and Teddy Kennedy say that before the war is even over that we have already lost. Pathetic. Did the Union win the Civil War? Hundreds of thousands dead, the President assassinated, half the country in ruins and occupied and rebels still roaming the countryside. You guys would have claimed without a doubt that there would be no way the Union could claim “victory”. You can substitute any war and with your “We lost no matter what” – “Bush Hate” mindset and consider it a lost war. You can also point out any time where I am lacking in military history.

Accept the numbers relevance? Who cares? Is that the best you've got to spam this thread, meaningless numbers concocted on an anti-F9/11 site. Fucking useless. Who cares? I said son or daughters, not third cousins. I done debating with your sophist arguments on it.

And yes I hate Bush because he has cost over 1,400 Americans and possibly over 100,000 Iraqis their lives based on exaggeratted intelligence and outright fabrications. Now go drink your Neo Con Bullshit flavored Kool-Aid Busheep.

People like me? I think not. The terrorists and Ba’athists still fighting in Iraq are doing so precisely because people like YOU “and the German guy” are giving them encouragement to continue.

If you believe that one, you are truly retarded.

And they you are so simple minded as to think that I am “blaming the messenger (The German guy)” because he brings for bad news. Have you READ his signature? I maintain that he, and others of his ilk, are celebrating any American setback in Iraq and THAT is EXACTLY why he posted it.

Yeah, maybe I'm simple minded, but at least I can use my "simple mind' to think for my self Busheep. Don't you have some opinions to be spoon fed by Rush and Fox and Friends?

BTW, I was the first to call Kentuckyklira on his sig, but since you post here once in a while, yet seem to know fucking everything about me, it's a mystery as to how you didn't know that.

Yes that’s right, continue the juvenile protest-placard style of criticism of people who were in favor of ousting Hussein – that’s right, I’m glad Americans are dying in Iraq so I can have cheap gas. How stupid. But, “No Blood For Oil” fits nicely on a bumper sticker. If you think the German guy “cares” more for American troops in Iraq I’ll repeat that you must be smoking crack. I never said Congress was “empathetic”, I only pointed out that the left’s Michael Moronic Chickenhawk argument is at about the same intellectual level of a 4 year-old. Clinton? I never brought him up – you did.

Yeah, you so smart you fail to see the irony of cowards who have never served sending people to their deaths in a callous effort to prop up their failed, destructive policies of trying to remake the world while habitually discounting the opinions and advice of any military people that disagree.

You engage in useless sophist arguments to distract from real, pertinent issues.

Again, who’s hyperbolic here? Can I get a ruling judge? Of course I want the U.S. to win the war – and you don’t? I know that most left-winger Bush haters DON’T want the U.S. to win.

Don't confuse being a mindless enabler with being patriotic. I want the U.S. to stop fighting stupid, dirty wars under false pretenses. You know nothing of military matters. Fell free to join up at anytime to learn about counterinsurgency and low-intensity conflict. Oh I forgot, just cause you never served still doesn't preclude you from having opinions.

No, for the most part I didn’t like his post because it contained false PROPOGANDA. Oops, here we are back at the Chickenhawk argument. Can’t you think of anything else? That’s all you’ve got? Should U.S. Presidents be required to have served in the military? What of the veterans who are in support of the war in Iraq? This lame argument has no legs to stand on when examined in any depth but on the surface it sounds good to left-wingers. Comparing Nazi aggression to the U.S. using it’s military? Wow. You can’t seriously compare the wars of European aggression to the United States’ use of military power. Apples and oranges – and it is this simplistic comparison that always negates this notion of the Germans knowing that the use of a military is EVIL – no matter what.

I like how you discount my arguments then parrot them and try to turn them back at me. Simply stated, you are full of shit and a simpleton, knee-jerk nationalist that hasn't a clue about much. His comparison is valid when irrational Neo Cons are in charge and blindly believe they can end terrorism by invading a country that never attacked us and in turn provide a training ground/recruitment center for terrorists. Try reading the "What If" argument by REPUBLICAN Congressman Ron Paul of Texas post by Ford in this thread, you might learn something:

http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=380228#post380228

[Sgt Schultz]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Accept the numbers relevance? Who cares? Is that the best you've got to spam this thread, meaningless numbers concocted on an anti-F9/11 site. Fucking useless. Who cares? I said son or daughters, not third cousins. I done debating with your sophist arguments on it.

I looked up the numbers myself using standard information – census, U.S. military, members of Congress. Unlike some people who get everything from Democrap Underground. The best I’ve got? No, I posted it merely to counter the tired old Mikey Moore line about how Congressmen won’t send their sons and daughters to war that YOU posted. Did you even read it? It’s not “third cousins” as you continue to falsely claim. Since you didn’t bother to read it the first time I’ll post it again. The article says;

“Of the 535 members of Congress, at least seven have a great personal interest: They have children in the military who already are participating in the war or could be called to do so.”
“House and Senate information offices said they do not have a comprehensive list of members who are military parents.

The small group of lawmakers who've announced or confirmed that their kids are now serving includes Johnson, Kline and Republican Reps. Todd Akin of Missouri, Duncan Hunter of California, Marilyn Musgrave of Colorado, Ed Schrock of Virginia and Joe Wilson of South Carolina.

For Wilson, three of his sons currently are in the service.”
end quote

Doesn’t say anything about 3rd cousins in there – sunshine.

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
And yes I hate Bush because he has cost over 1,400 Americans and possibly over 100,000 Iraqis their lives based on exaggeratted intelligence and outright fabrications. Now go drink your Neo Con Bullshit flavored Kool-Aid Busheep.

You and your ilk hated Bush long before the war even started. Every other Western power had the same intelligence – and yes even Clinton – had the same intelligence. The difference is no one wanted to act on it. Like I’ve said before, if you and others left-wingers think that since we’ve found no wmd – in Iraq – that the whole war was for nothing then you must then call for the immediate reinstatement of Saddam as President of Iraq – period.

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Yeah, maybe I'm simple minded, but at least I can use my "simple mind' to think for my self Busheep. Don't you have some opinions to be spoon fed by Rush and Fox and Friends? .

Really? Did you think that one up yourself (Busheep)?

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Yeah, you so smart you fail to see the irony of cowards who have never served sending people to their deaths in a callous effort to prop up their failed, destructive policies of trying to remake the world while habitually discounting the opinions and advice of any military people that disagree.

Like I said – what about the veterans who agree with Bush and the war in Iraq? Are they to be discounted too? You also seem to fail to see the irony of the left who say “If you haven’t been in the military then shut the fuck up” (unless you agree with us, then it’s ok) about liberating millions of people from a totalitarian dictatorship – while at the same time they have never experienced living under such rule themselves – “cowards” indeed.

Lincoln would fall very neatly into your tidy little definition of a Chickenhawk too.

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Don't confuse being a mindless enabler with being patriotic. I want the U.S. to stop fighting stupid, dirty wars under false pretenses. You know nothing of military matters. Fell free to join up at anytime to learn about counterinsurgency and low-intensity conflict. Oh I forgot, just cause you never served still doesn't preclude you from having opinions. .

So you must feel the same about people like Stephen Ambrose and John Keegan. They must not know anything of the military since they didn’t serve. Make sure you don’t ever offer commentary on education since you were never a teacher as I was.

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I like how you discount my arguments then parrot them and try to turn them back at me. Simply stated, you are full of shit and a simpleton, knee-jerk nationalist that hasn't a clue about much. His comparison is valid when irrational Neo Cons are in charge and blindly believe they can end terrorism by invading a country that never attacked us and in turn provide a training ground/recruitment center for terrorists. Try reading the "What If" argument by REPUBLICAN Congressman Ron Paul of Texas post by Ford in this thread, you might learn something:

Hmm – Afghanistan never attacked us either. The South never attacked the North either (they fired on a Fort in their own territory). Germany never attacked the U.S., neither did Italy.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Sgt Schultz


“Of the 535 members of Congress, at least seven have a...

I DON'T GIVE A SHIT! HAVING A RELATIVE AND SENDING YOU'RE CHILD are two very different things. Moot point in any case since I don't care, move on.

You and your ilk hated Bush long before the war even started. Every other Western power had the same intelligence – and yes even Clinton – had the same intelligence. The difference is no one wanted to act on it.

No! I hated the fact that Bush won the election despite the credible accusations of fraud and while losing the popular vote (I get tired of rehashing the same arguments over and over but here goes.)

Since when does the Bush Admin. speak for the intelligence agencies of other governments! Which ones, the British? They have a few controversies over there of their own! A misleading claim at best.

a.) Bush undermined the Weapons Inspectors and assumed it was a "Slam Dunk" (ala' Tenet). He assumed that since they didn't find anything that they were being duped, when in fact only the American people were duped.

b.) Numerous articles and reporting surfaced from CIA sources basically saying that the Bush Admin was pressuring the agency to come up with conclusions about WMD's not supported by the available data and despite the fact the intelligence was actually coming from biased defectors with questionable backgrounds and ulterior motives such as Chalabi.

c.) The Pentagon High Command (since purged by Scumsfeld and Wolfieshitz) were advocating the continuation of the "Containment Policy" regarding Iraq since the Iraqi military was severally degraded by sanctions (which worked!) and was unable to mount offensive operations and in fact were worried that Iraq was no longer able to counter-balance Iran as a secular, if tyrannical, regional power.

Like I’ve said before, if you and others left-wingers think that since we’ve found no wmd – in Iraq – that the whole war was for nothing then you must then call for the immediate reinstatement of Saddam as President of Iraq – period.

A very bizarre, Orwellian statement! Thanks for telling me what I believe. Actually, I think that if we invaded Iraq as a mission of merciful liberation of the poor, downtrodden Iraqis, then we need to draft a huge army, roll those tanks and fighters after the following regimes:

Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Egypt, Burma, Iran , Syria, Cuba, Uzbekistan, China, and most of all North Korea-- just to name a few!

Send out those draft notices because Sheriff Uncle Sam is now out to liberate the entire fucking world by attacking any country under any sort of a despotic regime! All the while torturing and holding enemy combatants with no regard to the Geneva Conventions! Hey, they can now do that to our soldiers too I guess. What wonderful, hypocritical, and faulty logic you employ. By the way, "Freedom is slavery!" and "War is peace!" "We care about the Iraqi people so much!"

Really? Did you think that one up yourself (Busheep)?

Well I certainly can figure out your faulty logic for you. Things a getting little clearer now?

Like I said – what about the veterans who agree with Bush and the war in Iraq? Are they to be discounted too? You also seem to fail to see the irony of the left who say “If you haven’t been in the military then shut the fuck up” (unless you agree with us, then it’s ok) about liberating millions of people from a totalitarian dictatorship – while at the same time they have never experienced living under such rule themselves – “cowards” indeed.

Sure some agree, but I bet you the ones that do do not share your hyper-resounding clarity about the ease of the war in Iraq, we have had a few post here, and I think the quote was something to the affect that "We drive around waiting for someone to bomb us." And that things are "pretty fucked up" over there.

Lincoln would fall very neatly into your tidy little definition of a Chickenhawk too.

Wrong! Lincoln was in the Illinois Militia, he was a Captain I believe. I believe FDR would be a better example. He was an excellent war president! But then again he figured out which country attacked us and claimed war on Japan, not the Dutch East Indies like Dubya would have (the DEI had oil back then).

So you must feel the same about people like Stephen Ambrose and John Keegan. They must not know anything of the military since they didn’t serve. Make sure you don’t ever offer commentary on education since you were never a teacher as I was.

Why? Did they advocate for and support a war they tried to avoid only to seek service in, the typical rich, right-wing boys way out, the National Guard so they could have their cake and eat it too?

No. It's not about military knowledge, FDR got us through WWII alright (though military experience sure contextualizes the bullshit spin one hears on TV). Clinton was regarded to be an adequate study and actually like the use of force a little too much himself.

The Chickenhawk argument stems forth as a credibility issue. Simple as this, if you tell people to potentially die while zealously overstepping the bounds of any previous U.S. President , you better damn well know what it is like to get shot at and have friends die next to you. Peacetime Naval Jet jocks like Rummy also fall into that statement as well, when they discount the advice of their veteran Army commanders.

BTW, didn't Bush's election team slander courageous War Hero Sen. John McCain, implying that his service in Vietnam made him prone to fits of anger? Just curious to see what you have to say about that.

By the way, I was a full-time English teacher for two years. You must really enjoy being wrong today.

Hmm – Afghanistan never attacked us either. The South never attacked the North either (they fired on a Fort in their own territory). Germany never attacked the U.S., neither did Italy.

The South illegally seized Federal Military and tresurey assets. They did not negotiate any partitioning agreement, and they were illegally abducting African tribesman and terroristically enslaving them. Therefore, they needed "Regime Change."

Germany DECLARED WAR ON THE U.S. December 15, 1941! Italy was aligned with Germany.

In fact, the Taliban leadership stood by Osama and implied that they condoned his terrorist actions against the U.S. therefore, harboring al-Qaida, the attack can be considered as having originated on their soil and they then became a legitimate military target of "Regime Change." BTW, the French and Germans are in Afghanistan, defending our freedom.

[Sgt Schultz]

Lincoln was in the Illinois Militia for a few weeks. He was in two different Companies one as a Captain. During the Black Hawk War he was a Private and had his horse stolen in Wisconsin (Michigan Territory) and had to walk back. He had less military experience than your average day Boy Scout.

I typed a lot but forget it - you are typical brainwashed left-wing lost cause blinded by hate and you just ignore facts that don't fit into your pseudo-reality. Then over and over you just make things up out of thin air having to do with my positions. Just look at your first response where you AGAIN ignored facts and wrote something you made up. You are hopeless.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Sgt Schultz
Lincoln was in the Illinois Militia for a few weeks. He was in two different Companies one as a Captain. During the Black Hawk War he was a Private and had his horse stolen in Wisconsin (Michigan Territory) and had to walk back. He had less military experience than your average day Boy Scout.

I typed a lot but forget it - you are typical brainwashed left-wing lost cause blinded by hate and you just ignore facts that don't fit into your pseudo-reality. Then over and over you just make things up out of thin air having to do with my positions. Just look at your first response where you AGAIN ignored facts and wrote something you made up. You are hopeless.

BUHUHAWHAWHAWHAWWHAWAAAAA

[scorpioboy33]

I'm sad they died for sure. They were humans...but I'm sadder they were involved in a war where 250000 civilians were murdered...God sometimes the US sucks...we'll not all of it...just the half that voted that piece of garbage in

[kentuckyklira]

Originally posted by Sgt Schultz

I maintain that he, and others of his ilk, are celebrating any American setback in Iraq and THAT is EXACTLY why he posted it.






Again, who’s hyperbolic here? Can I get a ruling judge? Of course I want the U.S. to win the war – and you don’t? I know that most left-winger Bush haters DON’T want the U.S. to win.

I never said I wasn´t celebrating American setbacks in Iraq, and yes, I DON`T want the U.S. to win.

I´ll tell you why too!

That is apparently the only way to prevent U.S. administrations led by assholes like George Bush from starting wars at a whim and for selfish reasons. I´d rather a few thousand US servicemen died in Iraq than many thousand more Americans and others die in future "preemptive" wars!

Too hard for you to grasp, guess so!

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by kentuckyklira
I never said I wasn´t celebrating American setbacks in Iraq, and yes, I DON`T want the U.S. to win.

I´ll tell you why too!

That is apparently the only way to prevent U.S. administrations led by assholes like George Bush from starting wars at a whim and for selfish reasons. I´d rather a few thousand US servicemen died in Iraq than many thousand more Americans and others die in future "preemptive" wars!

Too hard for you to grasp, guess so!

That's fucking pathetic. You want US soldiers to die so US soldiers in the future can live. You're a human piece of trash.

[kentuckyklira]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
That's fucking pathetic. You want US soldiers to die so US soldiers in the future can live. You're a human piece of trash.

I´d prefer nobody died. But if some have to then those should that knew that risk was part of the profession they chose!

[Sgt Schultz]

Originally posted by kentuckyklira
I never said I wasn´t celebrating American setbacks in Iraq, and yes, I DON`T want the U.S. to win.

I´ll tell you why too!

That is apparently the only way to prevent U.S. administrations led by assholes like George Bush from starting wars at a whim and for selfish reasons. I´d rather a few thousand US servicemen died in Iraq than many thousand more Americans and others die in future "preemptive" wars!

Too hard for you to grasp, guess so!

Moron.

So you'd prefer that Saddam Hussein was in power in Iraq. Wow, you are such a humanitarian, soooooo concerned for human life. I'm glad to see you are so concerened about madmen "starting wars at a whim and for selfish reasons".