Should Canada Accept American Deserters?

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Full Bug
    Crazy Ass Mofo
    • Jan 2004
    • 2921

    Should Canada Accept American Deserters?

    It's not his war

    U.S. deserters put their faith in Canada

    By Jason Botchford, Toronto Sun

    Hundreds of American soldiers are preparing to come to Canada if this country again opens its doors to war resisters.

    Toronto lawyer Jeffry House, who is representing Jeremy Hinzman's landmark refugee case, said 200 have contacted him alone, mostly since George W. Bush was re-elected in November, looking for a way out.

    Darrell Anderson knows why.

    Seven months in combat

    After serving in combat in Baghdad for seven months, the 22-year-old Kentucky-bred soldier turned his back on his home, his family -- including his 4-year-old daughter -- and his country to come to Toronto two weeks ago so he didn't have to go back to Iraq and train his gun on one more innocent child.

    He is the most recent soldier to desert the American army and come to Canada

    At home in Lexington, KY, over Christmas, Anderson read about Hinzman, a paratrooper turned Iraq-war-deserter, who is waiting for a Canadian tribunal to decide next month whether he is a refugee for refusing to fight.

    "I saw his story and I saw hope for me," Anderson said. "I was not going back to Iraq to kill innocent people. I couldn't see myself making another decision. I didn't want to live a life where I was hiding in my own country."

    House, himself a Vietnam draft dodger, said there are many others like Anderson waiting for the results of Hinzman's landmark case. Never before has there been a Canadian case dealing with American deserters.

    "There are a lot people contacting me, wanting to know what would happen if they came to Canada," House said. "They are looking for ways out."

    An estimated 5,500 men and women have deserted since the invasion of Iraq, reflecting Washington's growing problems with troop morale.

    Anderson is the most recent soldier to come here. He is one of six known American military deserters who fled to Canada rather than go to war or face jail terms. All of them insist they were acting responsibly by refusing to fight what they all call an unjust war.

    Anderson made his decision after going home at Christmas following seven months of combat in Iraq, where he won a bravery medal.

    "It is just so intense in Iraq," Anderson said. "Many people will face the same question I had. I asked myself, 'Can I die over there? Can I go back and fight this unjust war?' "

    The answer two weeks ago, just before Anderson slipped into a car and drove to Canada, was an emphatic ''no.'' But Anderson concedes that his decision was really made for him just about a year ago when he was still in Iraq.

    In Baghdad, a car had approached too close to his platoon. He could hear other American soldiers screaming at him to open fire. When the motorist hit the brakes, sparks flew. The intensity piqued. People screamed: "What are you doing? Why aren't you firing?"

    Anderson didn't move.

    "I felt no threat, I felt the car posed no threat. I wasn't in any danger," Anderson said. "And then the windows rolled down and it was an innocent family. Two parents and some kids in the back. If I would have fired I would have killed innocent kids."

    Anderson said he then turned to those fellow soldiers who were screaming at him.

    "After that they said, 'Next time you open fire, you do what you're told,' " Anderson said. "They were ordering me to shoot, ordering me to kill innocent people."

    Lee Zaslofsky, of Resisters, a Toronto-based group dedicated to helping deserters, is lobbying the government to make it easier for deserters like Anderson to come to Canada.

    "We want the government to make it clear that they are going to be welcoming people and allowing them to stay," said Zaslofsky, one of an estimated 60,000 Americans who came here after to dodge the Vietnam War draft. "It's what Canadians want. It's what Canada has done in the past.

    "The government should bite the bullet and step up to the plate and do what is right. These are human beings. Do we want to offer them up as sacrifices to the altar of good relations with George Bush?"

    During the Vietnam War, Canada had one of the most open immigration policies in the world. People who showed up at the border were given "landed-immigrant" status on the spot. In 1969, Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau instructed immigration officials not to discriminate against applicants because they hadn't fulfilled their military obligations in other countries.

    But immigration in Canada now is much more restricted and the country is divided over whether the new era of deserters should be allowed to stay.

    Canada's Immigration and Refugee Board has already ruled that Hinzman's claim that the war was illegal was not relevant to his case. The board is expected to determine in March whether Hinzman proved that he would face social persecution if sent home.

    The United States Army treats deserters as common criminals, posting them on "wanted" lists with the FBI, state police forces and department of homeland security border patrols.

    Unlike the Vietnam era, Canada has not encouraged deserters to seek asylum here and detractors are quick to note that this generation of American troops voluntarily signed up.

    Still, there are a large number of people in Toronto willing and ready to help any soldiers who come here.

    A group of deserters and old Vietnam War draft dodgers meet every week in Toronto. Sometimes they watch football games, other times they play cards, but all the time they talk about Iraq and the decisions they've made.

    Cliff Cornell, 24, came to Toronto Jan. 8. The Arkansas resident was stationed in Georgia. His platoon was to be deployed to Iraq just after this past Christmas. He did not want to go.

    He joined the army for a chance at an education but when he saw and heard what was happening in Iraq he made his decision.

    He said being able to meet Anderson has helped him immeasurably.

    "He wanted to know if it was really as bad as he's heard," Anderson said. "It is. Others ask me that. They want to know if they made the right decision. I tell them how you take your crappy Humvees out in the morning and ride them around Baghdad, hoping not to get blown up."

    Anderson joined the army when he was in high school. He had just had a daughter, Tatum, and looked to the army as a way to better himself, a way to get an education and care for his family.

    By the time he was deployed to Iraq a year ago he had been in training for one year.

    "I was ready to die and defend my country thinking it would make a better life for my (now ex-) wife and daughter," Anderson said.

    But that changed. During one of the most dramatic sequences Anderson was driving in a howitzer tank. His friend had just dropped down from his lookout position out of the hatch, bleeding and dying in Anderson's lap.

    "I had to immediately take the lookout position and my gun was aimed at this kid who was running by," Anderson said. "It looked like he was carrying something. I pulled the trigger but nothing happened. The safety was still on. That's when I saw it was just an innocent kid. I thought, 'What is my country doing to me? What is my country making me do?' "

    Anderson later won a medal for bravery during a firefight. He was leaning out the hatch of his howitzer when a bomb landed near by. Shrapnel ripped through his right side.

    When Anderson came home for Christmas he said he was lonely. No one could understand what he had seen and survived.

    He said it was impossible to talk to strangers, difficult to talk to even his family.

    He said deciding to come to Canada was the most difficult decision he's ever had to make.

    "I understand the consequences are the most severe," Anderson said. "I may never be able to go to the United States again. I may never be able to go home. But there was no other decision I could make."

    The night before he left for Canada, Anderson saw his daughter.

    "I told her I love her, I told her that her daddy will always love her."
    13
    a:3:{i:1263;a:5:{s:12:"polloptionid";i:1263;s:6:"nodeid";s:5:"14382";s:5:"title";s:23:"Yes, Let Canada Keep'em";s:5:"votes";i:5;s:6:"voters";a:5:{i:0;s:2:"32";i:1;s:4:"5803";i:2;s:5:"10120";i:3;s:4:"9794";i:4;s:3:"131";}}i:1264;a:5:{s:12:"polloptionid";i:1264;s:6:"nodeid";s:5:"14382";s:5:"title";s:33:"No, Ship'em back to be Prosecuted";s:5:"votes";i:6;s:6:"voters";a:6:{i:0;s:2:"63";i:1;s:4:"3741";i:2;s:4:"4077";i:3;s:2:"14";i:4;s:4:"5040";i:5;s:3:"971";}}i:1265;a:5:{s:12:"polloptionid";i:1265;s:6:"nodeid";s:5:"14382";s:5:"title";s:43:"Who Cares, Canada Is a Pussy Country Anyway";s:5:"votes";i:2;s:6:"voters";a:2:{i:0;s:4:"8719";i:1;s:4:"5835";}}}
    0%
    5

    The poll is expired.

    Diamond Mafia Forever - 4. To restore fullbug to the prominent place in this board, after various serious attacks by hitch1969 have now damaged his reputation and now is reguarded as a "Retarded, Stoned, Canadian, Dog finger bangin' fuckup"
  • Full Bug
    Crazy Ass Mofo
    • Jan 2004
    • 2921

    #2
    I voted ship them back, if this were a question of soldiers who were drafted I might see it differently....
    Diamond Mafia Forever - 4. To restore fullbug to the prominent place in this board, after various serious attacks by hitch1969 have now damaged his reputation and now is reguarded as a "Retarded, Stoned, Canadian, Dog finger bangin' fuckup"

    Comment

    • FORD
      ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

      • Jan 2004
      • 59558

      #3
      If any deserters are to be prosecuted, let's start with the one in the White House.
      Eat Us And Smile

      Cenk For America 2024!!

      Justice Democrats


      "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

      Comment

      • academic punk
        Full Member Status

        • Dec 2004
        • 4437

        #4
        Canada should accept them with open arms.

        Thinking about it from the longview, how's this any different from the family that hid Anne Frank from the Nazis? They're deserting because they don't want to risk being killed for a war they don't believe in.

        Maybe they did volunteer, fine. but, come on, these are KIDS who signed up for paintball on the weekends! And if you know anything about the armed forces recruiting techniques, you wonder how much of this is a true "voluntary situation in the first place.

        (small, not so-well-known tidbit: one of the provisions of the No Child Left Behind initiative is that schools would supply the armed forces with every students contact info. They call, they come by the house, they essentially seem to harrass these people, largely because they have quotas to meet. And if you go to some of the country's smaller, more impoverished towns, you're FAR more apt to see military recruiting stands rather than college or career opportunities present.)

        Comment

        • BigBadBrian
          TOASTMASTER GENERAL
          • Jan 2004
          • 10625

          #5
          Originally posted by FORD
          If any deserters are to be prosecuted, let's start with the one in the White House.
          You're about six years too late with this post, FORD.
          “If bullshit was currency, Joe Biden would be a billionaire.” - George W. Bush

          Comment

          • ELVIS
            Banned
            • Dec 2003
            • 44120

            #6
            Originally posted by academic punk
            Maybe they did volunteer, fine. but, come on, these are KIDS who signed up for paintball on the weekends!
            Bullshit!

            Comment

            • Nickdfresh
              SUPER MODERATOR

              • Oct 2004
              • 49563

              #7
              They didn't voluteer for the National Guard or the Reserves to be sent to some God forsaken patch of sand as full-time occupation troops!

              Comment

              • BigBadBrian
                TOASTMASTER GENERAL
                • Jan 2004
                • 10625

                #8
                Originally posted by ELVIS
                Bullshit!
                Exactly. Fucking paintball? Give me a FUCKING break.
                “If bullshit was currency, Joe Biden would be a billionaire.” - George W. Bush

                Comment

                • FORD
                  ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

                  • Jan 2004
                  • 59558

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Nickdfresh
                  They didn't voluteer for the National Guard or the Reserves to be sent to some God forsaken patch of sand as full-time occupation troops!
                  Nor were they trained to do so. Which essentially makes them sitting ducks.
                  Eat Us And Smile

                  Cenk For America 2024!!

                  Justice Democrats


                  "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

                  Comment

                  • academic punk
                    Full Member Status

                    • Dec 2004
                    • 4437

                    #10
                    Originally posted by ELVIS
                    Bullshit!
                    To some extent, it's true. And to the extent of the Reservists at my college (back in 88 through 92, so it was a different political climate, but it WAS in the era of the first Gulf War, so the atmosphere waas there), it's ABSOLUTELY true.

                    These were guys and girls who were only so aware of their choice as to think that this was a means to help pay for college, SO THEY CAN GET A DIPLOMA, EARN A CAREER, AND GET ON WIHT THE REST OF THEIR LIVES.

                    And I was essentially paraphrasing one of them, who used to kid, "Up, paintball weekend, better practice my war face."

                    Comment

                    • ELVIS
                      Banned
                      • Dec 2003
                      • 44120

                      #11
                      Originally posted by FORD
                      Nor were they trained to do so. Which essentially makes them sitting ducks.
                      How do you know what they were trained for ??

                      Comment

                      • Nickdfresh
                        SUPER MODERATOR

                        • Oct 2004
                        • 49563

                        #12
                        Originally posted by ELVIS
                        How do you know what they were trained for ??
                        I was in the U.S. Army Reserve and the difference between the USAR after serving in the regular Army was stark as night as day. I just pity those poor bastards if they have the same overall low quality of officers and senior NCOs leading them. I found Reserve officers to have an imperious and petty lot with an arrogant demeanor. I found this difficult to swallow because most of the active Army officers I met went out of their way to "lead by example" as the cliche' goes whereas, for example, I had an USAR Off. "order" me to clean up their desks for them.

                        Also, the USAR and Nat'l Guard are issued second rate, semi-obsolete hand-me-down equipment. Granted these guys go through specific training before they are shipped out to Iraq, but still the psychological impact of being treated virtually as a regular troop must be very difficult when many must take pay cuts and risk losing their civilian careers.

                        The bottom line is these guys are being ground down gradually. I think we may start to see the same post-Vietnam era problems in a few years, and that is if we don't have to resort to a draft if we get into a fight with Iran.

                        Comment

                        • academic punk
                          Full Member Status

                          • Dec 2004
                          • 4437

                          #13
                          Well, Elvis is right: they ARE trained.

                          Among other things, they're BRAINWASHED to think like KILLERS, to get that killer instinct.

                          anyone ever shiver at night a) for their souls, and b) for the ramificaitons this is going to have for our country in the coming years?

                          Comment

                          • ELVIS
                            Banned
                            • Dec 2003
                            • 44120

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Nickdfresh
                            I was in the U.S. Army Reserve and the difference between the USAR after serving in the regular Army was stark as night as day. I just pity those poor bastards if they have the same overall low quality of officers and senior NCOs leading them. I found Reserve officers to have an imperious and petty lot with an arrogant demeanor. I found this difficult to swallow because most of the active Army officers I met went out of their way to "lead by example" as the cliche' goes whereas, for example, I had an USAR Off. "order" me to clean up their desks for them.

                            Also, the USAR and Nat'l Guard are issued second rate, semi-obsolete hand-me-down equipment. Granted these guys go through specific training before they are shipped out to Iraq, but still the psychological impact of being treated virtually as a regular troop must be very difficult when many must take pay cuts and risk losing their civilian careers.

                            The bottom line is these guys are being ground down gradually. I think we may start to see the same post-Vietnam era problems in a few years, and that is if we don't have to resort to a draft if we get into a fight with Iran.

                            I hear you...

                            Comment

                            • ELVIS
                              Banned
                              • Dec 2003
                              • 44120

                              #15
                              Originally posted by academic punk
                              Well, Elvis is right: they ARE trained.

                              Among other things, they're BRAINWASHED to think like KILLERS, to get that killer instinct.

                              anyone ever shiver at night a) for their souls, and b) for the ramificaitons this is going to have for our country in the coming years?
                              Hmmm...

                              Comment

                              Working...