U.S. Death Toll Hits 1,500 in Iraq!

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by John Ashcroft
I'm the dolt?

I was responding to your reaction to the points made by others. You know, this one.

Specifically this:

No, no, no...I was responding to this shit!

Originally posted by John Asscroft
Yep, it's like they're happy about it.

Fucked up, isn't it?


BTW, the title of this thread should be "U.S. Death Toll Only 1500 in Iraq; An Unprecedented Military Success!"

Imagine that! Never happen.

Just who was "they're?" Speaking for me are we? You giving me advice on what the thread should say by-way-of spinning the death of Americans in combat Asscroft? You are a Dolt!

Doesn't sound like you were "just posting an article"... Fucking imbecile.

No fucktard! Reread the thread again with your stellar reading comprehension skills and tell me who started with the commentary! I merely posted the article, YOU started with the holier-than-now bullshit about how grateful we should be that ONLY 1.500 Americans died in Iraq! Praise the lord! Hey, 'only' 3,000 died on 9/11, so by your logic, no big deal right? Tell it to their parents you heartless prick! Only 1499 other kids got killed, be grateful! Nice organized attack Neo Cons!

[/QUOTE]

[rustoffa]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
The WMD lies

By STEPHEN J. SNIEGOSKI

Quoting that was a scrolling nightmare.

I'll say this:

Skimming over it makes me long for the days of typewriters.

Is that dude a certifiable PHD?

I'm sure he is.

Horrible.

He's shaking the hand of sensationalism with no remorse.

Dadgumm, that fucker is getting more newsgroup updates than Red fucking Sovine.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by rustoffa
Quoting that was a scrolling nightmare.

I'll say this:

Skimming over it makes me long for the days of typewriters.

Is that dude a certifiable PHD?

I'm sure he is.

Horrible.

He's shaking the hand of sensationalism with no remorse.

Dadgumm, that fucker is getting more newsgroup updates than Red fucking Sovine.

Well, he's not the only one.

[John Ashcroft]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
No, no, no...I was responding to this shit!
No fucktard! Reread the thread again with your stellar reading comprehension skills and tell me who started with the commentary! I merely posted the article, YOU started with the holier-than-now bullshit about how grateful we should be that ONLY 1.500 Americans died in Iraq! Praise the lord! Hey, 'only' 3,000 died on 9/11, so by your logic, no big deal right? Tell it to their parents you heartless prick! Only 1499 other kids got killed, be grateful! Nice organized attack Neo Cons!

[/B][/QUOTE]

Right then... Still wondering why people who share your line of "reasoning" are losing elections?

You're not fooling anyone nick, and the fact that you're getting upset proves that you just might be catching on to this.

Oh, BTW, how many military men do you know fighting this war?

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by John Ashcroft

Right then... Still wondering why people who share your line of "reasoning" are losing elections?[/b][/quote]

We really haven't had any elections recently. We still have about 18 months to go. So we don't know what will be lost or won do we?

You're not fooling anyone nick, and the fact that you're getting upset proves that you just might be catching on to this.

I am glad, since my intentions was never to fool anybody, in fact, I seek the truth, as painful as that is to some people. I'm not sure what being upset has to do with anything, but I think a lot of people are "catching on" tonight if that's the case.

Oh, BTW, how many military men do you know fighting this war?

Again, I'm not sure what that has to do with anything, but I'd say I know, or have known, about half-a-dozen to a dozen serving (though that's a guess), and one that has died so far. She was a lovely person and a big loss to the Army since she spoke Arabic.

[mwsully]

Nick,

You are right on with your beliefs and insights. And just in case anyone is ready to pigeonhole me, I am not a Democrat or a Replublican. I am not a "conservative" or a "liberal". I don't affitliate myself with any political party, though I do lean towards Green. I am thoroughly disgusted with Bush's decisions, esp. Iraq invasion.

For one thing, I still don't know why G.W. attacked in the first place. Was it for freedom? If that's the case, why did he not put some effort to help out those in Africa with a longer and more brutal history against its own citizens? It's a mess over there, at least in some places.

Was invasion necessary to prevent WMDs from exploding on our soil? We know that Saddam used them on his own citizens, but has he ever attacked us? If he was going to, where is the proof? I cannot accept invading and attacking without hard evidence.

Was invasion necessary to secure oil reserves, to establish possible pipelines? Hmmm, let's see... G.W.'s wealth is dependent on oil revenues. He is used to living a privileged life. Has ties with Saudi Arabia, major oil companies. Allowed the bin Laden family to leave the U.S. days after 9/11 when no one could fly at that time. Newly established leaders in Afghanistan were previous employees of the major oil companies.

Too many gaps, too many unanswered questions to condone a war in Iraq in my opinion, and while the soldiers are there, I pray for them. I hope for them. I think about their chances of getting out of there alive and in one piece. Yes, it may only be 1500, but remember the previous Gulf War, the one where our "beloved" federal government under the leadership of George Sr. flat out denied the Gulf War Syndrome. In fact, my stepfather, a neuroendocrinologist, was asked to treat these poor soldiers in secret, because the government was going to extremes to keep a lid on it, and so would not treat their own soldiers that fought for them. These soldiers were not just sick, they were slowly dying, their unborn children born with physical/mental disabilities, their spouses becoming sick as well. The symptoms were endless, and yet these soldiers were alive, barely. They were suffering so much from what they were exposed to over there.

To base the success of a war on the number of dead is ridiculous. That is just the tip of the iceberg. Just ask that soldier and his/her family who have Gulf War Syndrome.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by Cathedral
Originally posted by Cathedral
Abortion Statistics - U.S.

Approximately 1,370,000 abortions occur annually in the U.S. according to the Alan Guttmacher Institute.
In 2001, 1.31 million abortions took place.
88% of abortions occur during the first 6 to 12 weeks of pregnancy.
60% of abortions are performed on women who already have one or more children.
47% of abortions are performed on women who have already had one or more abortions.
43% of women will have had at least one abortion by the time they are 45 years old.

Abortion Statistics - Demographics

Age - The majority of women getting an abortion are young. 52% are younger than 25 years old and 19% are teenagers. The abortion rate is highest for those women aged 18 to 19 (56 per 1,000 in 1992.)
Marriage - 51% of women who are unmarried when they become pregnant will receive an abortion. Unmarried women are 6 times more likely than married women to have an abortion. 67% of abortions are from women who have never been married.
Race - 63% of abortion patients are white, however, black women are more than 3 times as likely to have an abortion, and Hispanic women are 2.5 times as likely.
Religion - 43% of women getting an abortion claimed they were Protestant, while 27% claimed they were Catholic.

Abortion Statistics - Decisions to Have an Abortion (U.S.)

25.5% of women deciding to have an abortion want to postpone childbearing.
21.3% of women cannot afford a baby.
14.1% of women have a relationship issue or their partner does not want a child.
12.2% of women are too young (their parents or others object to the pregnancy.)
10.8% of women feel a child will disrupt their education or career.
7.9% of women want no (more) children.
3.3% of women have an abortion due to a risk to fetal health.
2.8% of women have an abortion due to a risk to maternal health.

Abortion Statistics - Using Contraception (U.S.)

54% of women having an abortion said they used some form of contraception during the month they became pregnant.
90% of women who are at risk for unplanned pregnancies are using contraception
8% of women having an abortion say they have never used contraception.
It is possible that up to 43% of the decline in abortion from 1994-2000 can be attributed to using emergency contraception.
Abortion Statistics - Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice

According to a USA Today, CNN Gallup Poll in May, 1999 - 16% of Americans believe abortion should be legal for any reason at any time during pregnancy and 55% of American believe abortion should be legal only to save the life of the mother or in cases of rape or incest.
According to a Gallup Poll in January, 2001 - People who considered themselves to be pro-life rose from 33% to 43% in the past 5 years, and people who considered themselves to be pro-choice declined from 56% to 48%.

The majority of these statistics were taken from The Alan Guttmacher Institute.
**********************************************

War isn't the only thing that's hell, apparently being a fetus ain't no piece of cake in this backward ass country.
If you vote for any politician in this country, you support this holocaust, myself included.
Until someone steps up and says, ENOUGH!

SO CAN WE STOP THROWING IRAQ WAR DEATH TOLLS AROUND THIS DAMN PLACE, IT MAKES US ALL HYPOCRITES.

[Cathedral]

Ignoring it doesn't change the facts.

[Nickdfresh]

I agree MW, there seems to be a fishy fucking smell when people talk about "freedom" in the part of the world that yields the most oil.

Although, if we get proactive, there are significant oil deposits in Africa (Angola, Nigeria). Maybe we can "free" them from their corrupt, fascist governments.

[DLR'sCock]

Originally posted by Cathedral
Abortion Statistics - U.S.

Approximately 1,370,000 abortions occur annually in the U.S. according to the Alan Guttmacher Institute.
In 2001, 1.31 million abortions took place.
88% of abortions occur during the first 6 to 12 weeks of pregnancy.
60% of abortions are performed on women who already have one or more children.
47% of abortions are performed on women who have already had one or more abortions.
43% of women will have had at least one abortion by the time they are 45 years old.

Abortion Statistics - Demographics

Age - The majority of women getting an abortion are young. 52% are younger than 25 years old and 19% are teenagers. The abortion rate is highest for those women aged 18 to 19 (56 per 1,000 in 1992.)
Marriage - 51% of women who are unmarried when they become pregnant will receive an abortion. Unmarried women are 6 times more likely than married women to have an abortion. 67% of abortions are from women who have never been married.
Race - 63% of abortion patients are white, however, black women are more than 3 times as likely to have an abortion, and Hispanic women are 2.5 times as likely.
Religion - 43% of women getting an abortion claimed they were Protestant, while 27% claimed they were Catholic.

Abortion Statistics - Decisions to Have an Abortion (U.S.)

25.5% of women deciding to have an abortion want to postpone childbearing.
21.3% of women cannot afford a baby.
14.1% of women have a relationship issue or their partner does not want a child.
12.2% of women are too young (their parents or others object to the pregnancy.)
10.8% of women feel a child will disrupt their education or career.
7.9% of women want no (more) children.
3.3% of women have an abortion due to a risk to fetal health.
2.8% of women have an abortion due to a risk to maternal health.

Abortion Statistics - Using Contraception (U.S.)

54% of women having an abortion said they used some form of contraception during the month they became pregnant.
90% of women who are at risk for unplanned pregnancies are using contraception
8% of women having an abortion say they have never used contraception.
It is possible that up to 43% of the decline in abortion from 1994-2000 can be attributed to using emergency contraception.
Abortion Statistics - Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice

According to a USA Today, CNN Gallup Poll in May, 1999 - 16% of Americans believe abortion should be legal for any reason at any time during pregnancy and 55% of American believe abortion should be legal only to save the life of the mother or in cases of rape or incest.
According to a Gallup Poll in January, 2001 - People who considered themselves to be pro-life rose from 33% to 43% in the past 5 years, and people who considered themselves to be pro-choice declined from 56% to 48%.

The majority of these statistics were taken from The Alan Guttmacher Institute.
**********************************************

War isn't the only thing that's hell, apparently being a fetus ain't no piece of cake in this backward ass country.
If you vote for any politician in this country, you support this holocaust, myself included.
Until someone steps up and says, ENOUGH!

SO CAN WE STOP THROWING IRAQ WAR DEATH TOLLS AROUND THIS DAMN PLACE, IT MAKES US ALL HYPOCRITES.

Hasn't the number of abortions increased since Bush took office?

[Cathedral]

They increase every year, and have been for longer than Bush has been in office.
This isn't a Left or Right issue, It's an American Holocaust!

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Cathedral
Originally posted by Cathedral
Originally posted by Cathedral
Abortion Statistics - U.S.

Approximately 1,370,000 abortions occur annually in the U.S. ...

And the same approximate number of abortions happened when it was illegal prior to 1973.

Again, care to address the root issues that drive abortions such as lack of sex education, poverty, etc.

Texas Teaches Abstinence, With Mixed Grades

LUBBOCK, Tex. -- The day's guest instructor had spiked blond hair, tight black jeans and a propensity for street slang.

Washington Post
2003-01-20 11:00 pm

"You have been lied to, lied to by the media, lied to by celebrities," Ed Ainsworth told the 120 squirming eighth-graders at Smylie Wilson Junior High School. "Will this condom protect your heart?" he asked, flashing a glossy Trojan ad on a giant screen. "Will this condom protect your reputation? Go ahead and use a condom. You'll still be known as a slut."

This is sex education, Texas-style, where the only safe sex taught since 1995 is no sex outside marriage. That is when George W. Bush, who was then governor, signed a law making Texas the third state requiring schools to follow an abstinence-only sex education curriculum.

Now President Bush is promoting abstinence-until-marriage programs nationwide, a shift in health policy that has sparked an emotional debate over how to keep young people healthy. Abstinence-only proponents say that teaching young people about birth control is simply inviting them to have sex; advocates for comprehensive sex education say that withholding detailed information leads to dire medical consequences. Lubbock's situation illustrates the limitations of abstinence-only programs.

In the seven years since their schools began teaching abstinence-only, young people here have been anything but abstinent. Teen pregnancy rates in the state remain above the national average, and Lubbock County consistently has one of the highest rates in the state. In addition, the number of Texas youths with sexually transmitted diseases has risen steadily.

At the same time, many parents lack the time or expertise to provide adequate guidance. Teachers complain that even if the law did not limit what they could teach, the school day already is packed. And young people are living in a culture that features both regular church attendance and provocative music videos.

Now, a small group of students is revolting against the abstinence-only curriculum.

"The current policies are obviously ineffective," said Corey Nichols, 17, who, as mayor of the Lubbock Youth Commission, is leading a push for a more comprehensive program. "I think abstinence is wonderful; as a commission we back abstinence. But when you look at the numbers, you see the abstinence curriculum fails."

Risk and Routine


Lubbock is a flat, dusty farming community on the western edge of the Bible Belt, where liquor is prohibited and high school football is worshipped. Bush received his largest winning percentage in Lubbock's congressional district in the 2000 presidential election, and local lore holds that the city has more churches per capita than any other in the nation.

It would seem fertile ground for abstinence-only education.

"I really believe that's the way to go," said Cindy Wright, the mother of two girls. "The Bible says you are supposed to get married before you consummate a relationship. That may not be very popular, but I don't think teaching anything other than abstinence is right."

Since the abstinence-only curriculum began in 1995, teen pregnancy rates have fallen in Texas generally -- and Lubbock County specifically -- but not as dramatically as for the nation as a whole. Meanwhile, rates of sexually transmitted diseases have soared.

In 1996, the last year for which national figures are available, the U.S. teen pregnancy rate was 38 out of every 1,000 girls; Texas's rate was 40 per 1,000 and Lubbock County's was 43. In subsequent years, as the national and state rates inched steadily downward, Lubbock's figures fluctuated.

By 2000, the statewide teen pregnancy rate had dropped to 33 per 1,000; Lubbock County reported a rate of 42.4, said Jane Tustin, health services coordinator for the Lubbock Independent School District.

Over the last decade, as rates for gonorrhea and chlamydia have fallen nationally, Lubbock County has confronted an epidemic. In 2000, fewer than 150 cases of gonorrhea were reported nationally for every 100,000 people. Lubbock County reported double that, with the highest number of cases in people between the ages of 15 and 20.

But Lubbock has struggled with teenage sex for generations.

In 1973, the city developed a separate high school program for pregnant girls and young mothers, but it did not slow the pace of teen pregnancies. Two decades later, local officials appointed a teen pregnancy task force that met over two years, said Tustin, a task force member.

"We developed all sorts of recommendations," she said. The group urged a community-wide effort targeting high-risk behavior, such as smoking, gang membership, substance abuse and sexual activity, by providing more activities and mentors for Lubbock's young people. None of the recommendations was adopted, largely for reasons of cost.

What has persisted, Lubbock residents say, is a culture of teen sexual activity.

"We've got a lot of kids for whom the norm is to be a high school dropout and pregnant well before she is 18," said Eric Benson, who coordinates HIV programs in the Lubbock area for the Texas Department of Health. "We have instances where a girl has her first child at 15, becomes a grandmother by the time she is 30 and a great-grandmother at age 45."

Benson's observations are based partly on experience: Fifteen years ago, at age 19, he fathered a child. "I got my sex ed from three sources -- my peers, the media and my own research," he said.

Many teenagers said that with the limits on teaching, and with parents who are uncomfortable discussing sex in detail, they learn much of what they know from experience. Some young women here, under the mistaken belief that they can get pregnant through oral sex, refer to their children as "spit babies."

"I learned the hard way," said Jennifer Villarreal, 19, who gave birth two years ago. "You can continue to talk about abstinence, but kids are curious and they will experiment."

Even teenagers who have taken a virginity pledge see a community in which sexual activity -- often risky, promiscuous behavior -- is a routine part of growing up.

"Why so much sex in Lubbock?" said Shelby Knox, 16, who initiated the student effort to change the Lubbock curriculum. "There's nothing to do. You can only go to the movies so many times on Friday night."

Point of Agreement


Facing the eighth-graders at Smylie Wilson, Ainsworth asked how many knew someone age 15 or younger who was pregnant or had a child. Close to 90 percent of the hands shot up.

"Which one of you girls wants to go and have sex with a yo-yo who doesn't take care of you?" he asked. "Are you willing to trade your entire destiny for six seconds of pleasure?"

Ainsworth's make-the-adults-blush rap reflects the Bush administration's new tack on teen sexuality. He is a youth pastor, but he makes the case for abstinence not on religious grounds, but by highlighting the consequences of casual sex at a young age.

Sex outside marriage is Russian roulette, he told the students. Contracting the AIDS virus, he warned, means "a long, slow process of death" with medical care costing as much as $80,000 a year. Genital herpes "is the gift that keeps on giving," because sores on the mouth, buttocks, thigh and genitals come and go "for the rest of your life."

Joseph McIlhaney, founder of the Medical Institute for Sexual Health, said it is too early to evaluate the effectiveness of abstinence-only programs, but he has seen instances in which teen sexual activity declined after an aggressive education effort on condom failure rates and the dangers of sexually transmitted diseases.

"We feel there is very clear data that show that sexual activity is probably more risky behavior for an adolescent than smoking," said McIlhaney, who will run an educational session with Lubbock teachers and nurses Monday. "I don't think parents want their young people to become sexually active."

Abstinence educators aim to instill greater self-esteem in adolescents so they will have the courage and creativity to reject negative peer pressure. The easiest way to keep out of trouble, Ainsworth told the girls, is to "stay off your knees, stay off your back and keep your clothes on." And there is nothing cool about a young man in college preying on a 14-year-old girl, he added.

In large measure, medical professionals agree with Ainsworth. "Abstinence is the 100 percent effective way of not getting an STD or pregnant," said Vilka Scott, a disease intervention specialist at the Lubbock Health Department. "I strongly encourage abstinence."

But it would be irresponsible to stop the lesson there, she said. Abstinence may be the gold standard, but she also tells young people that delaying the onset of sexual activity, reducing the number of partners and using a condom greatly reduce risk.

"Telling people, 'Don't drink and drive,' doesn't make them go out and get drunk," she said. "I don't think information leads to bad decisions. I think it empowers individuals to make their own responsible decisions."

Like Scott, Tustin suggested that the abstinence-only approach does not give teenagers credit for being able to digest nuanced messages.

"Parents underestimate the knowledge kids have and the pressure they are under," she said. "They would be horrified if they knew what their kids know about drugs and sex."

One thing Ainsworth and Tustin agree on: Adults have failed the children of Lubbock.

"If parents think their kids are exposed to too much sexuality, they shouldn't have Britney Spears come to town," said Tustin, who was flabbergasted that tickets for the young sexpot's concert there sold out in 70 minutes. "You can't say to kids 'Don't have sex' and then let 12-year-olds stay out at a teen dance club until 11 at night."

The small band of rebels on the youth commission began to push for changes in the school curriculum more than a year ago. Last summer, several commission members took a Red Cross course on sexuality in the hope that they could do some teaching on their own outside school. In October, they organized a community forum sponsored by MTV that filled the city council chambers.

The session began with a short video in which pop star Tweet describes "nine things you need to know before you're good to go." The tips include getting regular checkups, learning about sexually transmitted diseases, using a condom and speaking candidly with sexual partners.

Some parents and students voiced dismay. "It was like a promotional video: Here are fun ways to do it," said Blake Williamson, 15. "The video made it sound like everybody's doing it -- you just need this information."

John Norris, the MTV correspondent moderating the forum, said a recent poll showed that 84 percent of teenagers wanted a comprehensive sex education curriculum and that 63 percent were not getting information they say they need. The students' questions seemed to illustrate his point.

Could a virgin conceive, one asked. Another asked: If a mother has AIDS, will the baby also contract the virus? Is the HIV virus spread by kissing? What about chlamydia? Would a girl with genital herpes infect her child during delivery? Can a woman get pregnant having sex with her clothes on? Do two condoms work better than one?

For youth commission member Maranda Buchanan, the forum was further proof that the abstinence-only curriculum had failed many of her peers.

"I knew this many people were having sex, but I didn't know so many were getting sick and pregnant," said Buchanan, 17. "Lubbock is in need of sex education."

Well, when the President was Governor of the state with one of the highest rates of teen pregnancy, what can we expect but more abortions?

[Cathedral]

Yeah, and bullets, bombs, and suicidal maniacs kill soldiers.

Death is Death, Nick, I don't care if it is a 30 year old soldier dying in a war or a fetus being created and destroyed in the womb, death is death.

It isn't the President being irresponsible and knocking up the girls, Nick.
It's the individual making the mistakes and it is the individual who is responsible.

We all know fire burns, so do we keep sticking our hands in it to see if it's hot?
I guess if you can blame it on society and totally shift the responsibility to someone who will eliminate the burn for you, it's ok to keep sticking your hand in it ?

Nobody should be responsible for themselves and their own actions, should they, eh, Nick?

Death is Death, Nick!
You have no right to climb people's asses while abortion kills an entire generation and more.

Oh, and by the way, Nick, The soldiers "volunteered" to serve their country. Babies aren't "volunteering" to have their life force snuffed out because they were created by an immature socialist minded whore.

And i'm not speaking of rape victims, or Mom's that could die carrying them. there are special circumstances, Nick.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Cathedral
Yeah, and bullets, bombs, and suicidal maniacs kill soldiers.

Death is Death, Nick, I don't care if it is a 30 year old soldier dying in a war or a fetus being created and destroyed in the womb, death is death.

It isn't the President being irresponsible and knocking up the girls, Nick.
It's the individual making the mistakes and it is the individual who is responsible.

We all know fire burns, so do we keep sticking our hands in it to see if it's hot?
I guess if you can blame it on society and totally shift the responsibility to someone who will eliminate the burn for you, it's ok to keep sticking your hand in it ?

Nobody should be responsible for themselves and their own actions, should they, eh, Nick?

Death is Death, Nick!
You have no right to climb people's asses while abortion kills an entire generation and more.

Oh, and by the way, Nick, The soldiers "volunteered" to serve their country. Babies aren't "volunteering" to have their life force snuffed out because they were created by an immature socialist minded whore.

And i'm not speaking of rape victims, or Mom's that could die carrying them. there are special circumstances, Nick.

You can convolute abortion and the Iraq War all you want Catheter. But since Bush has started the former, and contributes to the latter, I fail to see your point bud.

[Nickdfresh]

Goodnight all. See ya' in a while.