Gas prices in your area!

[Igosplut]

Cars here are great!

You can buy 100-105 octane at performance shops, but it's expensive!

You can't run race gas in any car with a Catalytic converter because between the octane and the low-lead content, it'll melt the cat right off it.

Plus, it's suppose to be pumped into containers, never directly into a car from the pump.

[Igosplut]

I knew a guy that used to buy it - runs about $11 for about what, a 6 or 7 ounce bottle?

Anywhere from 8-10 dollars a gallon. You can buy octane booster, but it's not the same. The mixes that derive octane (lead being the easiest way to achieve octane ratings) are deathly poisonous to the touch..

[Nickdfresh]

I have to use 101 aviation fuel (race fuel is too far away) in one of my bikes because of the advent of 10% methanol mix really fucked things like that up. I could mix it, but the compression is high enough to take advantage of it running straight. And boy does it like it, No overheating in traffic, and kick starts better than on non-mixed 94 octane.....

Lately I've been throwing Marvel Mystery Oil (MMO) in my gas tank every other fill up or so. Some people swear it increases fuel economy, makes things run a bit cooler, and keeps everything fuel related pristine.

I haven't notice a difference until maybe this tank which seems to be taking forever to empty...then again that might be the tune-up with platinum+4 Bosch plugs...

[Seshmeister]

I looked into something similar a while back and the independent thinking seemed to be that stuff like that and other additives are not required for modern car engines and make no difference.

[ELVIS]

They don't, but some can assist in keeping an engine cleaner...

Synthetic oil can improve mileage slightly by reducing friction and allowing the reciprocating parts to move more freely...

[Igosplut]

Lately I've been throwing Marvel Mystery Oil (MMO) in my gas tank every other fill up or so. Some people swear it increases fuel economy, makes things run a bit cooler, and keeps everything fuel related pristine.

I haven't notice a difference until maybe this tank which seems to be taking forever to empty...then again that might be the tune-up with platinum+4 Bosch plugs...

Mystery oil has "top end additives" but no lead. We used to run it in gas on older Harley's that hadn't been rebuilt to make them last longer on unleaded gas. But truth be known the guides and pistons were shit to begin with so it didn't really help.

The thing about adding it in a car with a cat is that in 07 they revised all the oil to remove whats referred to as ZDDP. That's basically an oil additive that protects harsh metal to metal contact (read: flat tappet cammed motors). They had found out that ZDDP compromises Catalytic Converters and O2 sensors if/when the car starts to use a little oil. Mystery has this, plus other additives that could do harm. I would say what little you've used hasn't harmed anything, but I wouldn't continue adding it.

[Igosplut]

Synthetic oil can improve mileage slightly by reducing friction and allowing the reciprocating parts to move more freely...

I've had people swear this to me but you couldn't prove it by me. They seem to be in the minority......

[Kristy]

Anywhere from 8-10 dollars a gallon. You can buy octane booster, but it's not the same. The mixes that derive octane (lead being the easiest way to achieve octane ratings) are deathly poisonous to the touch..

Okay, I was thinking octane booster but don't think it contains a scrap of lead. I mean, next to mercury, lead has been banned in just about everything by the EPA since the late seventies. Most likely octane booster is just another car gimmick to grab your money.

[Nickdfresh]

Mystery oil has "top end additives" but no lead. We used to run it in gas on older Harley's that hadn't been rebuilt to make them last longer on unleaded gas. But truth be known the guides and pistons were shit to begin with so it didn't really help.

The thing about adding it in a car with a cat is that in 07 they revised all the oil to remove whats referred to as ZDDP. That's basically an oil additive that protects harsh metal to metal contact (read: flat tappet cammed motors). They had found out that ZDDP compromises Catalytic Converters and O2 sensors if/when the car starts to use a little oil. Mystery has this, plus other additives that could do harm. I would say what little you've used hasn't harmed anything, but I wouldn't continue adding it.

As far as I know, MMO has no ZDDP, or Zinc. It supposedly works on the premise of an organic ester and smells like peppermint! I shit you not! (Some synthetic oils use esters along with polyalphaolefins to aid in cleaning and for the seals) Esters are great for dissolving sludge and carbon and the stuff has been around forever. It works well in small amounts in motor oil (which I rarely put it in) as a cleaner and it's supposed to be used sparingly (four ounces for every ten gallons) in gas.

You're talking about SM-rated, GF-4 oils, but they didn't take all the zinc out. They have cut back on it in conventional oils weighted between 5W-20 and 10W-30 and most oils probably have about half or two-thirds the amount of ZDDP they did during the SL-rated oil era. Most "high mileage" oils and some performance oils still have higher amounts of zinc, but I think regular oils most use higher amounts of moly and calcium...

[Nickdfresh]

I've had people swear this to me but you couldn't prove it by me. They seem to be in the minority......

It's hard to say. I think you really only notice synthetic oil on really cold morning start-ups. That may use less fuel, but it is debated quite a bit whether the same weight of synthetic oil saves any gas over conventional, especially now that conventional oils are so good and really aren't all that far from synthetics for 90% of all applications as base oils are far better than they used to be. In fact, most 'synthetic' oils now pretty much start with the same crude oil as conventional oils do, but are refined further. Some are "hydrocracked" and refined into "Group III" oils like Pennzoil Platinum or Quaker State "Horsepower" synthetics. Some use some sort of "slack wax" process to reformulate base oils like Shell Helix. I think Amsoil, Mobil1, and a few other boutiques are still the only ones who use (mostly) the traditional Group IV and V polyalphaolefins and polyesters for what some call "true" synthetic. But some believe that they're also blending in cheaper (but still very effective) Group III oils...

One thing synthetic oils can do better is they can be used to formulate thinner grades such as 0W-20, 0W-30, or 0W-40 that are far more robust than conventional oils and can flow at much lower temperatures. But that might not necessarily mean better fuel economy in every case. I have a lot of this stuff called "German Castrol" SYNTEC 0W-30 because I was told it was some of the best stuff available in North America for the winters. Even though it seems like it would be "thin," it actually thickens up at temperature almost like a 10W-40 would and it probably is more like a 0W-35 weight. That being said, I do a lot of highway driving to and from work, and I do think I tend to get slightly better mileage with synthetic oil regardless of make. But it's nothing dramatic though...

[Igosplut]

As far as I know, MMO has no ZDDP, or Zinc. It supposedly works on the premise of an organic ester and smells like peppermint! I shit you not! (Some synthetic oils use esters along with polyalphaolefins to aid in cleaning and for the seals) Esters are great for dissolving sludge and carbon and the stuff has been around forever. It works well in small amounts in motor oil (which I rarely put it in) as a cleaner and it's supposed to be used sparingly (four ounces for every ten gallons) in gas.

You're talking about SM-rated, GF-4 oils, but they didn't take all the zinc out. They have cut back on it in conventional oils weighted between 5W-20 and 10W-30 and most oils probably have about half or two-thirds the amount of ZDDP they did during the SL-rated oil era. Most "high mileage" oils and some performance oils still have higher amounts of zinc, but I think regular oils most use higher amounts of moly and calcium...

I must have 20+ year old cans (big shock there) on MMO because they list ZDDP as an additive, so they must have removed it from later blends. I haven't used MMO in years for anything.

ZDDP is listed in "Parts per million" by the was they list it. Most oil companys removed (or didn't add) it completely because with roller camed engines there was really no need for it anymore. That, and to conform to API rated/endorsement. You can have any ZDDP amount you please, (Brad Penn oil has the highest) but you will not get the API approval. Conventional ZDDP levels before were about 1500 PPM and up, most levels left are basially unmeasurable. Delvac, and Rotella (diesel) oils had it for a bit longer, but with diesel trucks getting cats after 06 that went by the wayside also.

This only really matters for flat tappet cammed engines. The high performance stuff I deal with were losing cams at a rapid rate. Forget trying to break a new one in, you couldn't do it even with the cam break-in lubes.

Again, this all revolved around compromising O2s mostly, and on a lesser level Converters. I've had bad O2s that were contaminated (by whatever, but mostly antifreeze) and they were a bitch to diagnose until you learned the signs/patterns.

[Nickdfresh]

I must have 20+ year old cans (big shock there) on MMO because they list ZDDP as an additive, so they must have removed it from later blends. I haven't used MMO in years for anything.

ZDDP is listed in "Parts per million" by the was they list it. Most oil companys removed (or didn't add) it completely because with roller camed engines there was really no need for it anymore. That, and to conform to API rated/endorsement. You can have any ZDDP amount you please, (Brad Penn oil has the highest) but you will not get the API approval. Conventional ZDDP levels before were about 1500 PPM and up, most levels left are basially unmeasurable. Delvac, and Rotella (diesel) oils had it for a bit longer, but with diesel trucks getting cats after 06 that went by the wayside also.

This only really matters for flat tappet cammed engines. The high performance stuff I deal with were losing cams at a rapid rate. Forget trying to break a new one in, you couldn't do it even with the cam break-in lubes.

Again, this all revolved around compromising O2s mostly, and on a lesser level Converters. I've had bad O2s that were contaminated (by whatever, but mostly antifreeze) and they were a bitch to diagnose until you learned the signs/patterns.

Most oils still contain ZDDP, just much lower amounts of it and still meet API approval. You CAN still use zinc as an anti-friction additive, but it has to be below a certain level. I think most oils are well below 1000 PPM now, probably in the middle hundreds, which is about half to one-third of what they were even five years ago. But I believe there's a balance, like you're allowed a certain amount of ZDDP if the phosphorous is kept at a certain level and whatnot...

Almost all oils now use molybdenum as their main replacement for higher levels of zinc, but some still get older SL rated oils, or just use thicker HDEO (diesel) oils which still have higher levels of zinc in them for their classic/older cars...

[Igosplut]

I get what your saying (and agree) but the point I was making was we had cams going away at a fast rate. It was a BIG problem for about three years until people could unravel what happened. Flat tappet cammed engines HAD to have a large PPM of ZDDP or you were fucked. Now there's ZDDP additives you can buy so it's all a moot point.

Even GM did away with EOS (engine oil supplement) because of roller cams and have just recently brought it back..

[Nickdfresh]

I get what your saying (and agree) but the point I was making was we had cams going away at a fast rate. It was a BIG problem for about three years until people could unravel what happened. Flat tappet cammed engines HAD to have a large PPM of ZDDP or you were fucked. Now there's ZDDP additives you can buy so it's all a moot point.

Even GM did away with EOS (engine oil supplement) because of roller cams and have just recently brought it back..

I've heard this. I know guys with older (flat tappet) engines use Shell Rotella 10W-30 or any 15W-40. A lot of the high mileage oils like MaxLife and the Mobil1 10W-30/40 also have a lot of zinc. Some have said a good high moly oil is just as effective, but I dunno. I have no experience with classic cars...

Even regular old STP has a lot of zinc in it...

[Igosplut]

I've heard this. I know guys with older (flat tappet) engines use Shell Rotella 10W-30 or any 15W-40. A lot of the high mileage oils like MaxLife and the Mobil1 10W-30/40 also have a lot of zinc. Some have said a good high moly oil is just as effective, but I dunno. I have no experience with classic cars...

Even regular old STP has a lot of zinc in it...

Most of the high-mileage oils have been discontinued as well (Mobil one had a 10-40 high mileage synthetic that was good, but they canned it)

All the STP type oil-extenders had high PPM ZDDP, that's how they worked...

I like using Amsoil, they are the best (and the first) in synthetics but it's pricey...