Terry Schiavo

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
Regardless of your party affiliation(I don't see how that would play into this),

Read the Repuke' s own memo posted above and learn just how much this IS "playing" into this....

[academic punk]

So let me get this straight: potentially improving and saving TENS OF THOUSANDS of people's lives by investing in stem-cell research, that's a "no", but keeping a vegetable - who can't even employ the basci motor functions of a day old baby to swallow apple sauce - alive...well, who wouldn't?

[FORD]

The irony here is that Nelson is a DLC robot who votes with their side more often than he votes with Dems.

[FORD]

Originally posted by academic punk
So let me get this straight: potentially improving and saving TENS OF THOUSANDS of people's lives by investing in stem-cell research, that's a "no", but keeping a vegetable - who can't even employ the basci motor functions of a day old baby to swallow apple sauce - alive...well, who wouldn't?

It's worse than that. If stem cells could help the vegetable formerly known as Terri Schiavo, they wouldn't allow that either.

Of course she's way past that. But Christopher Reeve wasn't

[tomballin]

I have some questions and thoughts for our R.A. panel of assembled and esteemed experts on the Schiavo quagmire. Look forward to your thoughts and comments. - Tomba

For the record, I am pro-choice, meaning pro-right to die and pro-abortion, and a Christian. Imo, the government and the medical establishment has no business telling a man or women what they can or cannot do with their body in the aforementioned matters.

Of course, like I stated, this Schiavo case has not been about “right to die” for years now. I also have a PVS victim in my non-immediate family, and have followed this Schiavo case closely for four disgusting years.

---Questions and Thoughts for the R.A. Panel------

1. If Terri told her husband Michael (MS) that she would not want to live as a PVS victim, why was she consistently demonstrated Pro-Life AND Catholic before her collapse.

2. If Terri trusted MS to have sole responsibility in making this decision for her, why had she told her mother and friends that she wanted to divorce MS, because she couldn’t take the abuse or “at home situation” any longer.

The “at home situation” meant MS saying he would leave Terri if she didn’t stay skinny, and he greatly contributing to Terri’s extremely serious and advanced bulimia nervosa. Also Terri said MS was giving her consistent hell, because she could not get pregnant because of her bulimia disease. He was also a manic control freak and extremely jealous of Terri, according to her friends.

Medical experts have stated in official court documents, that it appears Terri’s hormones screwed up when she went through puberty, causing her to gain uncontrolled weight. She ballooned to well over 200 lbs on a 5’2” frame. Also remember, that because Terri was a Sammy Hagar style fat hog, and very shy, she never had any love interests, until she met MS. He is the only man she every had a relationship with before her collapse.

3. If Terri trusted MS to have sole responsibility in this life and death decision, why was MS AND her parents legal guardian of her affairs at the time of her collapse.

Her parent’s signed over their guardian rights to MS, year’s later, at the request of the attorneys handling the medical malpractice case against Terri’s two doctors. MS having sole guardian control would make the trial go easier under Florida’s ultra liberal and flaky laws, and increase the amount of money the attorney’s could get for Terri’s long-term care.

At that point in time, (years after Terri’s collapse) MS had busted his ass to help Terri and had good relationships with her parents, including living at their home because he was dead broke with Terri’s medical bills. Terri’s parent had no idea MS would stick it up their ass and not properly care for Terri, once he got his hands on the money, when they signed over their guardian interest to MS, strictly for the court case, at the request of their high powered Miami based law firm.

Sarge indicated in his post that it was Terri’s parent that tried the brain implant’s to help Terri. With all respect, this is not accurate. It was MS that took Terri to California, to try this experimental treatment, that was not successful, after two attempts, BEFORE the malpractice award.

4. If Terri said she would not want to live as a PVS, why did MS never say ONE WORD, about her alleged “off the cuff” remark, made while they watched a movie together related to the subject, until AFTER he got his hands on the settlement money. During the malpractice trial, MS stated on the witness stand, in well documented court transcripts, that he would take care of Terri for the rest of her God given life.

It was based on MS’s recorded court statements, that the settlement award was calculated. If MS had said on the witness stand, that Terri didn’t want to live as a PVS, and he wanted to respectfully end her life according to her wishes, the malpractice settlement award would have been SUBSTANTIALLY lower.

Terri was awarded $6.8 million by the jury in her malpractice case, for her care for the rest of her God given life. Based on expert medical testimony however, the Judge lowered the award to $2 million (net $1.1 million to MS) because the medical experts stated that Terri’s life expectancy was greatly reduced due to her extremely serious and advanced bulimia nervosa. The medical experts testified to the Judge that in their opinion Terri life expectancy was only 45 - 50 years old.

** SideBar: In 2003, the last time Terri’s tube was removed, MS and George Felos pulled a “hail Mary” play and did a full hour Larry King Live Interview, in an attempt to sway public opinion. Around 40 minutes into the show, it blew up in their face, and exposed MS and his motives to the hilt. King in his low level and questioning approach was brilliant. Particularly, on the questions about Michael living with another women, having two children by her, yet refusing to divorce Terri.

After more King questions, nailing him down, MS got mad, and looked right at the camera’s and said, “I am going to do this (kill her) and nobody is going to stop me!” , almost spitting, the mofo was so pissed. I have both the transcript and the full video, for anyone that really wants to see this worthless fucker in action.

So there you go, for you thoughts and discussion.

We can all ignore this shite, and say let Terri go, (yeah, in a sterile vacuum, it’s the right thing to do, imo) but it’s this shite, AND MUCH MORE, that has supercharged this issue (and public circus), and sent the knowledgeable public into an uproar over this out of control and sickening situation.

It is also why people like me say that if the Bush Texas Family Mafia, and Tom “The Hammer” DeLay can break it off in Michael Schiavo’s and his attorney George “Dr Death” Felos, ass, DO IT!

It will not do a thing for Terri, but it will be the first time in this whole disaster, that Terri’s poor parents will finally get some satisfaction, that they stick Michael Schiavo’s bullshit right up his worthless ass. Further, if they can get Terri’s sealed records opened in a Federal court, MS and Felos legal ass is chopped meat, and they well know it.

Just my 3 Cents - Roth On

=========================

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==========================

[tomballin]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
BTW, The Right to Life lobby is full of shit on this with the whole "starving" thing! Newborns that are born "brain-dead" are allowed to "starve to death" all the time. You want to keep them alive indefinitely? They feel no pain since the body only senses hunger for a couple of days. Besides, she had an eating disorder which ultimately caused her to become brain damaged, I doubt she'll mind being starved.

>>>Newborns that are born "brain-dead" are
>>>allowed to "starve to death" all the time.

NDF, newborns don't have developed GI tracts and central-autonomic nervous systems. Who different deal

PVS's like Terri, do feel pain. That is why it's standard medical procedure to dope them up in the starvation stage.

However you are right, people fighting this “starvation thing” are wasting their time, because it’s standard medical procedure endorsed by the American Medical Association, and legal in all but I think one State in the U.S.

Also, if you haven’t been around PVS’s, they will surprise-scare the shite out of you sometimes with what they can do and feel. It’s very strange.

[academic punk]

Tomba -

I'm not going to even get into the soap opera contained in your first three points, but as you yourself said, MS agreed to take care of Terry for the rest of her GOD-GIVEN life.

The "life" that is currently living is NOT God-given. It is completely man-made, and with the removal of the feeding tube, her God-givne inability to even use her basic motor functions to accept food and water fed to her via a spoon or straw rather than a feedig tube.

Sorry, T. Doctor after doctor has asserted she is completely brain-dead. I know her family would like to think she understands and recognizes them, but that's just wishful thinking according to the medical community.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by tomballin
I also have a PVS victim in my non-immediate family, and have followed this Schiavo case closely for four disgusting years.

Right, well when you are the guardian of a person who is heading long and hard into this condition, then you can jump my shit about my experiences in delaing with this kind of thing.

I never claimed to be an MD, and everyday is an education in this for me, every day, not just from the perspective of having a "non immediate family member" where i can just go home and look at it from an outsiders perspective, which is what you are and what you're doing.

I don't intend to make light of your own personal situation, and you have my prayers for you relative, but i won't argue the differences in our experiences with you because that will require me to post on this forum certain aspects i can't even talk about much less post.

Now i am certainly no Michael Schiavo and i will do whatever i have to do for my wife, and if i can't for one reason or another, I will find a way as i have done since 1999.
What you know or think you know about their personal relationship before Terri's collapse, and your opinion of his current relationship doesn't change the fact that he is her husband and is afforded the right's as her Guardian to ensure her wishes are carried out.
Her own friends have testified that "she stated" she would prefer death to this, so this isn't just what Michael is saying.

Whatever your contempt for Michael Schiavo is, they weren't dicorced before this happened so his right's and responsibilities are being trampled by Congress. There is no proof of what you claim, only testimony of those who are against what Michael is trying to do.
So, their motivation is clear and my only concern is that Terri be allowed to die, not because of any legal rambling going on, but because no sane person would even see her current existance as living.

I see it for what it is, not what is reported or claimed by those with alterior motives. Truth is, nobody knows what to believe, but that isn't whats important here, is it?
Whats important is that this personal family issue doesn't become a poltical football, which sadly it already has, and that the woman is granted the peace she deserves.

And last but certainly not least, it is an example to everyone that if you don't specify in writing how doctors and family are to proceed in this instance, families can expect to face the same issues in a similar situation.

This is exactly the reason i made a living will for my wife and myself, so this mess will not be a possibility in our lives.

Again, my prayers to your relative and your family that is dealing with this first hand.

[academic punk]

Here's the latest:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050320/ap_on_go_co/schiavo_congress

House GOP Fails to OK Schiavo Legislation


WASHINGTON - House Republicans, seeing Congress as a last hope for brain-damaged Terri Schiavo, failed during an extraordinary Palm Sunday session to pass legislation aimed at prolonging the Florida woman's life.

Once Democrats refused to allow the measure to go ahead without objection, Republicans began scrambling to bring lawmakers, who had just started their Easter recess, back to Washington.

Majority Republicans called a recess after the four-minute session and said they planned to meet as early as one minute after midnight on Monday — if they get at least 218 of the 435-member House to attend.

The Senate awaited the chance for quick approval of a bill that congressional leaders said would allow Schiavo's feeding tube to be reconnected. President Bush (news - web sites) was cutting short a stay at his Texas ranch and returning to the White House by Sunday evening in hopes of being able to sign the bill.

"Her feeding tube was removed, so time was important at this point," White House spokesman Scott McClellan said, explaining Bush's decision to return to the capital. "Hours do matter at this point," McClellan told reporters aboard Air Force One.

[Cathedral]

It will be political suicide if they pass this bill and put that tube back into Terri Schiavo's stomach.
What they are doing is unconstitutional by trying to pass legislation concerning one person.

The fact is that without medical intervention she would die, and her husband has the right to determine if it ceases or continues, NOT WASHINGTON.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Cathedral
It will be political suicide if they pass this bill and put that tube back into Terri Schiavo's stomach.
What they are doing is unconstitutional by trying to pass legislation concerning one person.

The fact is that without medical intervention she would die, and her husband has the right to determine if it ceases or continues, NOT WASHINGTON.

As usual, the Voice of Reason from the Right.....

Nice, Cath

[Steve Savicki]

This may be one of the most controversial topics of 2005.

[Cathedral]

I am more of a fanatical gemini than anything else, but i appreciate the kind words.

I just learned they will pass this legislation unanimously, and there goes my confidence in anything political in this country.

[DrMaddVibe]

Cat, your posts rings true but I have to interject a couple of things.

1) MS has stated that he's doing this because it was Terri's wish. He authorized the feeding tube in the 1st place. If he was abiding by her wishes then why did he authorize it to begin with?

2) Why was all rehab therapy stopped back in '93? In '91 she was improving! '92 the settlement money pours in...what gives?!?

3) Show me another "husband" that cares so much for his ailing wife's wishes that he finds the need to shack up with a common-law wife and father 2 children with her out of wedlock...all the while his wife is in a hospice! I'm not buying the "loving husband" bit one bit!

In this nation so much has been predicated on Life that now we want to reverse that thought and state that Death is better than Life? I could just see our Founding Fathers with this on the plate...

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Death, Liberty and the pursuit to die.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

Yeah....riii-ght!

[tomballin]

Hey, Cathedral, I was just rasin ya on the MD deal. Don't take offense.

Honestly I don’t take any of this Schiavo shite personal and haven’t for a long time. Both sides are crazy and lying their ass off in this deal, that is very offensive to anyone with common sense and decency.

What has been going on in Congress today with DeLay is total crap. Shite, the clown tried to past a “Terri’s bill” without even a roll call vote, before he got knocked up beside the head, and they adjourned the special session. What a bunch of bull.

But Cathedral you are wrong if you think Congress has not passed individual personal bills before, because they have. A law prof researched it last year and published a piece on it. They were however usually attached on another bill, so the public never heard about it unlike this situation.

The only reason DeLay and Bush are doing all this is for PR, because DeLay has his ass in a sling on that criminal grand jury investigation against him in Houston. Two years ago some Federal investigators accidentally stumbled on some documents at Enron, that implicates DeLay, and a number of the Bush Texas Family Mafia members in some major league fraud and corruption. It doesn’t get much press, but there is a reporter at the Washington Post that has been bird dogging this deal for years, and is damn good.

Judge Greer, on Terri’s case is an idiot, but he had one remark a while back that was right on the money, imo. This situation has to have a fixed length. Both sides cannot keep changing the goal line by slinging mud and playing this case out in the media. A lot of the stuff on Michael Schiavo is very true, but if Terri’s parents cannot prove their case after all this time, well they lost and nobody said life or the court systems were fair. I support that 100% even in my own family's personal situation.

Everybody has cut Terri's parents some slack because Michael Schiavo used Terri's medical award to fuel his litigation, and has out spent them by close to $750,000 in legal fees all total with outside help.

But Florida has one of the best crime labs in the Country. If Terri’s parents hadn’t been such liars about the whole thing, (mainly her Father) and lying that Terri never had severe bulimia, like he wasn’t there for the ENTIRE damn malpractice trial, and all her primary family had their depositions taken, hello!,,,,,,,,,the crime lab and other Florida law enforcement official’s would have helped her parents on this case with some very clear evidence that an admitting nurse leaked out of the hospital years ago on Terri’s collapse and more.

Her father has been Terri’s own worst nemesis. Like DLR said – That’s Life, que it up.

Roth On and Be Well