Dean on Jesus, balanced budgets

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  • FORD
    ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

    • Jan 2004
    • 59558

    Dean on Jesus, balanced budgets

    April 8, 2005

    Dean on Jesus, balanced budgets

    By JOHN BRUMMETT
    Howard Dean called the other day and started talking about Jesus. Yes, that Howard Dean. Yes, that Jesus.

    Dean is the doctor and former Vermont governor who now is chairman of the Democratic National Committee, having pretty much screamed himself out of the Democratic presidential nomination last year.

    Along the campaign path he remarked that his favorite New Testament book was Job, which, actually, is in the Old Testament.

    It was insinuated that Dean, like the Alan Alda character on "West Wing," wasn't all that much for churchgoing. The way to insinuate such a thing is to call a man "perhaps the most secular candidate for the presidency in modern times."

    Dean was coming to my little Southern city to speak to the national association of state Democratic chairmen. He wanted to give me a little insight on what he would say, as much, that is, as you can impart in seven minutes over the cellular crackle on your way back from the Vatican Embassy where you'd signed the condolences book for the Pope.

    This speech would offer the best early indication of what Dean had in mind for the Democrats.

    "I'm going to tell them we're going to run in all 50 states, that the days of running in 18 states are over, and that we're going to help them in all races, down to the state and local level. I'm going to tell them we're going to build machines in their states with their own people, not with imported people. I'm going to tell them Democrats need not shy away from the values debate. I will tell them that the Democratic Party is going to have a national message, and it's not going to come from the top down but from them up. We're going to look at what we have in common, not what divides us. The people of Minnesota and Arkansas see a lot more things the same than they see differently."

    He said he would give the state chairmen marching orders: Find out and articulate what the Democratic message is, or ought to be, in your state, and we'll synthesize all 50 and come up with one.

    I wanted to go back to how the Democrats shouldn't shy away from the values debate. "We need to talk about Christian values and how they're Democratic values," Dean said. "Jesus taught to help the least among us. He spent his life reaching out to the disenfranchised. The Democratic Party is the party of that value, not the Republican Party."

    Dean said that passing on debt to children was a Republican value that Democrats didn't share. He said that it's not a Democratic value to get in new ethics trouble every two or three days, which has been the rate lately for House Majority Leader Tom DeLay.

    This is the man - Dean, I mean - who said with typical self-wounding that he wanted to be the Democratic presidential candidate who got votes from Southern guys with Confederate flags in their pickups.

    "I'd say that differently now," he told me. "But I do think Democrats need to be the party to get white AND black votes, and I think we will be."

    You can call him a cultural liberal if you must, but he calls it an oversimplification and says he gets rather tired of it.

    "I was a governor who balanced eight budgets in a row, which is eight more than the Republicans, and I was a governor who was endorsed every year by the National Rifle Association."

    Guns, Dean predicted, would never come up - either pro or con - in his 50-state survey of what the Democratic message should be.

    "Guns aren't an issue," he said. "If Philadelphia wants gun control, fine. If Alabama doesn't, also fine."

    So there you have the new Democratic Party, bloodied, but counterpunching. It's a familiar face, but the words are a little different and the inflection is starkly so.


    Brummett is an award-winning columnist for the Arkansas News Bureau in Little Rock and author of "High Wire," a book about Bill Clinton's first year as president. His e-mail address is jbrummett@arkansasnews.com.

    For comment or questions, please e-mail webmaster@pahrumpvalleytimes.com
    Copyright © Pahrump Valley Times, 1997 - 2005
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  • Warham
    DIAMOND STATUS
    • Mar 2004
    • 14589

    #2
    The Democratic leadership would only talk about Jesus in order to get more votes from the red states. They have no use for Christian values or morals. The next time Dean speaks to some gay rights groups, he should bring up some chapters of Leviticus. That'll be a real riot for those folks listening.

    Comment

    • FORD
      ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

      • Jan 2004
      • 59558

      #3
      Leviticus has nothing to do with Christianity. It was written for use as a handbook for a specific sect of Jewish priests, the Levites, hence the name. It was never meant to be a guidebook for everyone.
      Eat Us And Smile

      Cenk For America 2024!!

      Justice Democrats


      "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

      Comment

      • Guitar Shark
        ROTH ARMY SUPREME
        • Jan 2004
        • 7579

        #4
        I agree Warham, this would be perceived as blatant pandering. Of course, the current leaders of the Republican party have no use for Christian values either.
        ROTH ARMY MILITIA


        Originally posted by EAT MY ASSHOLE
        Sharky sometimes needs things spelled out for him in explicit, specific detail. I used to think it was a lawyer thing, but over time it became more and more evident that he's merely someone's idiot twin.

        Comment

        • Warham
          DIAMOND STATUS
          • Mar 2004
          • 14589

          #5
          Originally posted by FORD
          Leviticus has nothing to do with Christianity. It was written for use as a handbook for a specific sect of Jewish priests, the Levites, hence the name. It was never meant to be a guidebook for everyone.
          Jesus was a Jewish priest, just like the Levites.

          God's Word hasn't changed since day one.

          Jesus said...

          "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

          Leviticus is part of the Law. The Law and the Prophets make up the Old Testament.

          Comment

          • FORD
            ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

            • Jan 2004
            • 59558

            #6
            The Law was the 10 Commandments. And guess which favorite right wing obsession is mentioned NOWHERE in the 10 Commandments. (and no, that is NOT what was meant by "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's ass" )

            Here is Scriptural evidence that Jesus does not consider Leviticus to be "the Law".

            From the 10th chapter of Acts

            9 On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:

            10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,

            11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:

            12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.

            13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.

            14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.

            15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

            16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.


            So in other words, Peter - born and raised in the Jewish cultural "Kosher" tradition was resistant to eat any "unclean" animals, even when they were sent FedEx from JC Himself.

            JC, said "Pete....chill out. If I sent it, it's clean. Now eat something, ya retard".

            So clearly, Jesus was telling Peter to forget the Kosher codes - they were no longer neccessary. And if Jesus wouldn't negate any portion of the law, then that could only mean that this rule was never the Law to begin with.

            (No offense meant to anyone who still practices those traditions, as there certainly isn't any harm in NOT eating pork, shellfish, etc. Unless God tells you otherwise, like He did to Peter )
            Last edited by FORD; 04-08-2005, 10:24 PM.
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            "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

            Comment

            • DrMaddVibe
              ROTH ARMY ELITE
              • Jan 2004
              • 6686

              #7
              With Dean at the helm it would take Jesus to balance the budgets!

              Jesus would probably go on a bender and throw the schiesters outta town like he did in the marketplace too!
              http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...auders1zl5.gif
              http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c4...willywonka.gif

              Comment

              • FORD
                ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

                • Jan 2004
                • 59558

                #8
                Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
                With Dean at the helm it would take Jesus to balance the budgets!

                Jesus would probably go on a bender and throw the schiesters outta town like he did in the marketplace too!
                Obviously, AssVibe, you are unaware that as Governor of Vermont, Dean balanced the budget every year, even though it was not a requirement of his state constitution.
                Eat Us And Smile

                Cenk For America 2024!!

                Justice Democrats


                "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

                Comment

                • Warham
                  DIAMOND STATUS
                  • Mar 2004
                  • 14589

                  #9
                  Originally posted by FORD
                  The Law was the 10 Commandments. And guess which favorite right wing obsession is mentioned NOWHERE in the 10 Commandments. (and no, that is NOT what was meant by "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's ass" )
                  "The books of the Law contained the 5 books of Moses: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. When these writings were completed they were accepted by Israel as divinely authoritative. Scripture itself teaches us concerning the process of inspiration and preservation of these books of the Law."

                  Comment

                  • FORD
                    ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

                    • Jan 2004
                    • 59558

                    #10
                    When the Pharisees tried to trick Jesus with knowledge of the law, His response was that you should do two things:

                    1) Love the lord thy God

                    2) Love your neighbor as yourself.

                    Jesus then said that anybody obeying these two commandments would be keeping the whole of the law.

                    Now how exactly does murdering homosexuals, eating a pork chop, or obsessing over when you washed your hands address either of those two commandments?
                    Eat Us And Smile

                    Cenk For America 2024!!

                    Justice Democrats


                    "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

                    Comment

                    • Warham
                      DIAMOND STATUS
                      • Mar 2004
                      • 14589

                      #11
                      I'm only quoting what Jesus said FORD.

                      If you have a problem with Him and what He said, you can address it when you die.

                      Jesus probably would have said to love the homosexual but hate homosexuality.

                      Comment

                      • Nickdfresh
                        SUPER MODERATOR

                        • Oct 2004
                        • 49563

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Warham
                        The Democratic leadership would only talk about Jesus in order to get more votes from the red states. They have no use for Christian values or morals. The next time Dean speaks to some gay rights groups, he should bring up some chapters of Leviticus. That'll be a real riot for those folks listening.
                        And the Republicans do?? Ahahaha!! Tom DeLay is more corrupt than Tammany Hall meets Robert Mugabe! And they dare talk about values! BULLSHIT!

                        Comment

                        • Nickdfresh
                          SUPER MODERATOR

                          • Oct 2004
                          • 49563

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Guitar Shark
                          I agree Warham, this would be perceived as blatant pandering. Of course, the current leaders of the Republican party have no use for Christian values either.
                          The Republicans do nothing BUT pander. They do not really represent the values of Christians.

                          Comment

                          • Nickdfresh
                            SUPER MODERATOR

                            • Oct 2004
                            • 49563

                            #14
                            Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
                            With Dean at the helm it would take Jesus to balance the budgets!

                            Jesus would probably go on a bender and throw the schiesters outta town like he did in the marketplace too!
                            AHAHAHAHAHA!!! Do you actually read the newspaper! You guys are fucking delusional!U.S. NATIONAL DEBT CLOCK

                            The Outstanding Public Debt as of 09 Apr 2005 at 03:41:08 AM GMT is:
                            $ 7 , 7 9 1 , 4 0 6 , 6 5 1 , 0 9 4 . 2 3

                            The estimated population of the United States is 295,855,617
                            so each citizen's share of this debt is $26,335.17.

                            The National Debt has continued to increase an average of
                            $2.16 billion per day since September 30, 2004!
                            Concerned? Then tell Congress and the White House!

                            Comment

                            • FORD
                              ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

                              • Jan 2004
                              • 59558

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Warham
                              I'm only quoting what Jesus said FORD.

                              If you have a problem with Him and what He said, you can address it when you die.


                              I just quoted Jesus in my last three posts on this subject, so I won't have any problem discussing it with Him.

                              Jesus probably would have said to love the homosexual but hate homosexuality.
                              Jesus probably would say "Get over it already"
                              Eat Us And Smile

                              Cenk For America 2024!!

                              Justice Democrats


                              "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

                              Comment

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