UK Ignored Bin Laden Warning - Extremist Says

[Seshmeister]

The way I see it the US had huge economic and strategic benefits to be gained from WWII and joined the war only after being attacked directly, Britain was fighting for it's existence but Canada and Australia were fighting on principle.

[BOMBER]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
The way I see it the US had huge economic and strategic benefits to be gained from WWII and joined the war only after being attacked directly, Britain was fighting for it's existence but Canada and Australia were fighting on principle.

Spot On.
I think we're all pretty glad they joined in though or things could have worked out a little differently.

[Seshmeister]

Well maybe but to be honest the Russians won the war.

I do think Australia and Canada have the high ground though.

You can't generalise too much but it's interesting that the two countires have such different attitudes nowadays.

Australia seems to want to be the best at rugby, cricket, swimming and the genocide of indigenous populations.

uh uhuhuhhuh

Cheers!

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
I think it's interesting that only new troops were used because they thought veterans would refuse...

Very true. Although the idea is that "green" troops would take chances that veteran infantry would never take.

I think the US soldiers were very brave and got a shitty deal but is it not true that the beach should have been bombed by the US airforce/navy to provide craters for cover but they fucked up?

Yes, from what I read in Ambrose's "D-DAY," the bombers went to far inland and missed because the target was obscured by clouds. And the German fortifications were quite well designed and constructed. The naval guns stopped too soon because they were afraid of killing their own as the troops approached the beach head. And they were afraid of tipping off the Germans because they may have hit the beaches with Panzers if given enough time.

What saved the day was that three destroyers (two US Navy, one Royal Navy) came in and gave direct fire support even though they risked beaching themselves in the shallows.

Soldiers were throwing smoke grenades to "illuminate the targets."

Also was there not a huge fuck up with the armour being dropped off in too deep water?

The American commanders were not believers in the "funnies," that is armor modified to "swim" to shore. Many of the tanks were flooded and sank as a result. But the German gun positions would have wiped them out anyways.

I could be wrong as well but I don't think the guards on the beach were elite SS troops but they were regulars.

I think there was a German unit in the area, as opposed to the Polish and Russian draftees expected, that was from the Calais region practicing defending against amphibious beach assaults. They may not have been SS, but they were Wehrmacht in any case.

I saw a disturbing documentary about one of the Germans that was 'working' a machine gun on the beach until he ran out of ammo. The guy had fired literally 10s of thousands of rounds and after he was told to leave his position he kept going. They reckoned he was respnsible for at least 1400 casualties. I suppose if the Germans had won the war he would be seen as a hero rather than a fucking weirdo psycho, such are the ways of war.

He said he had absolutely no regrets...

You know, I think I know which guy you're talking about. He's sort of short, and has a slight build and was very young at the time (maybe 17?). He's a little more contrite in the American documentaries.

The truth is that not many German machine gunners manning MG42s survived that day. There are accounts that Omaha was the only real instance in WWII where American GI's conducted open, wholesale executions of prisoners. They were pissed because they believed that the Germans were targeting medical personnel and that they dropped mortar rounds to kill all of the weaponless American soldiers up against the sea wall that the Germans could not directly shoot.

Well, out of six beaches, odds are your going to have one pisser...

[BOMBER]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Well maybe but to be honest the Russians won the war.

I do think Australia and Canada have the high ground though.

You can't generalise too much but it's interesting that the two countires have such different attitudes nowadays.

Australia seems to want to be the best at rugby, cricket, swimming and the genocide of indigenous populations.

uh uhuhuhhuh

Cheers!

Here's to hoping we say that way with the cricket,oh and of course being the best with the genocide of indigenous populations of course.
Cheers,mate.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by BOMBER
I can only speak as an Australian and I'm proud to say that's not our perception.
If most people in the states don't realise then that may well be the case.

Most people in the States do not realize. But I meant that the Australian (and New Zealand) reputation is that they were very effective and tough soldiers in any battle they fought, and were highly respected by the Germans as soldiers.

[Seshmeister]

You know Nick you could have saved yourself a little work there just by posting 'You are completely right as ever Sesh...'

The whole thing is all about context I guess. What was it 2000 killed?

On one hand horrendous nightmare on the other total irrelevance in the context of 30 million killed elsewhere.

That's the power of movies I guess.

Don't get me wrong I was greatly moved by the film particularly those first 20 minutes which were a work of genius, I just wish there was a bit less cheesiness at the end of the fillm and that more people had the imagination to look at that and then try in their minds to multiply it by 10 000 to get a handle on the insanity of the war as a whole.

I give credit to Speilberg showing surrendering troops being killed - it was one of the bravest moments for him in the film.



Cheers!

[BOMBER]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Most people in the States do not realize. But I meant that the Australian (and New Zealand) reputation is that they were very effective and tough soldiers in any battle they fought, and were highly respected by the Germans as soldiers.

Oh your right mate,it's all good.

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by BOMBER
Here's to hoping we say that way with the cricket,oh and of course being the best with the genocide of indigenous populations of course.
Cheers,mate.

Well as a Scot you know who I'm supporting in the cricket but I wish your guys could maybe be a bit less arrogant.

I think it must be something in the convict genes...

[BOMBER]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Well as a Scot you know who I'm supporting in the cricket but I wish your guys could maybe be a bit less arrogant.

I think it must be something in the convict genes...

I think 5-0,is that arrogant enough for you?

[Seshmeister]

I would not be unhappy with that result...

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
You know Nick you could have saved yourself a little work there just by posting 'You are completely right as ever Sesh...'

Well, you weren't completely right :p

The whole thing is all about context I guess. What was it 2000 killed?

On one hand horrendous nightmare on the other total irrelevance in the context of 30 million killed elsewhere.

That's the power of movies I guess.

You've got that right. To the the Red Army, losing 2000 guys in the opening volley of an offensive was a very good day. Although, the first three waves were essentially completely wiped out. But 2K was the worst on any beach that day, and that's not bad at all really in the grand scheme of things.

Don't get me wrong I was greatly moved by the film particularly those first 20 minutes which were a work of genius, I just wish there was a bit less cheesiness at the end of the fillm and that more people had the imagination to look at that and then try in their minds to multiply it by 10 000 to get a handle on the insanity of the war as a whole.

I agree. The script was a sentimental piece of shit real WWII veteran writers mostly tried to avoid in the 50's and 60's.

I give credit to Speilberg showing surrendering troops being killed - it was one of the bravest moments for him in the film.

Cheers!

Yes, I remember that some ex-US Army Rangers were very upset by the film "The Longest Day" when it was released because it showed surrendering Germans mistakenly being killed by American soldiers at Point Du Hoc. Since then, I've read many of the German defenders were taken out for a "10-mile forced march (lasting) five minutes."

[Seshmeister]

It's a difficult one isn't it?

In the context of seeing your all buddies cut down is there a defence of murdering the enemy when they surrrender?

I see 7 UK troops have just been charged for maltreatment of Iraqi looters.

Who knows but I guess it's a good thing that we keep trying to raise the bar.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by Angel
Our troops did a hell of a lot more than "help" on d-day and throughout the war! But you are right, our contributions don't get recognized. Sometimes it's our own fault though. We don't stand up and say: Look what we did! We just do it, hopefully get a thank you, and continue on. Took GWB 3 fucking years to thank us for all the diverted flights & passengers that we allowed to land, AND took into our homes! Which is a BIG part of the anti-American sentiment that is rampant in this country today.

LMMFAO, Don't hold your breath for a thank you from any country.
The fact that Bush gave you one says a lot, just not enough about how both America and Canada really rely on each other ecomically.

Our governments are closer allies than any of the citizens from both understand.
But that is a tad biased on my part because a couple of the best friends i have ever had were Canuck's, lol.

But on to my point:
Now i have given the whole "Terrorism" thing quite a bit of thought, which was concluded today when the news that London was hit again broke.
And i have come to the conclusion that ANYONE who believes for one second that the government will protect them, is buying into a fantasy of unrealistic proportions.

It was made very clear to me that there doesn't have to be a lot of planning to pull off an attack given the free access any-damn-terror-minded-fucks has to our borders.

All it takes is a good idea for a small, yet deadly, bomb of some sort that is built by many different groups.
Then they all set a time, pick their targets, and go to it.
At any given time there could be a series of detonations all across our country bringing mass carnage to our front doors.

My point is that the US Government has put out this scenario that we can't be hit without an ellaborate plan that takes years to put together, and that's just plain bullshit.

It makes me wonder sometimes if our own covert operators AREN'T behind some of the attacks over the last 20+ years in some kind of twisted political power grab.

Let me put it this way, I have taken the opportunity to look over some places in my own town where if I wanted too, I could kill a few thousand people and spend less than $1,000.00 doing it.

Could i bring the country to it's knee's like that?
Probably not, but with just a little more money and people willing to join the cause, it could be done in shorter time than you think.

I guess what i'm really wondering at this point is this, Who exactly are the Terrorist's we're supposed to be fighting?

I don't have the true answers to this, but i do have a hell of a lot of questions and absolutely ZERO faith in the people i once trusted running things.

The borders are a problem, yet they remain wide open?
Bin Laden master minded 9-11, but he isn't a priority over Iraq?
The Christian "LOONS" got Bush a second term, (yes, i know who i voted for) and he's done nothing to fight for issues they trust him to bring forward...of course they have all become too snowblind and sheepish to see he's dropped a ball he never really picked up.

I dunno, i'm surrounded by idiots who can't do simple math.
But things not adding up didn't get by me, and i want answers that are not coming.

But trust me, If i wanted to kill at least 1,000 innocent people, I could do it with one to two days of planning and what's in my wallet right this moment.
Our government wouldn't be able to stop me any more than they can a terrorist.

So i conclude that the Patriot Act, and the whole Homeland Security JOKE is just a gorilla beating its chest claiming to have power it doesn't have to garner support through fear mongering.

If you disagree with me, then prove me wrong because i certainly don't know what else to think anymore.

But i am sure of one thing, I don't have to stick my nose in dog shit to know it stinks.

Roth On!

[Seshmeister]

I think we're now officially in agreement Cat.

I don't know if that's because we've both given this some thought or we're both turning into fucking internet lunatics...