America running out of Time

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian


Cat, you've let the Schiavo issue jade your outlook on reality.

I respectfully disagree with that statement.
It took more than one issue to make me turn my back on this Administration, but every one of them is very much valid.

I don't do Kool Aide, and i don't blindly follow people when they drift off course either.
George W. Bush has indeed drifted off course and the facts support my decision to walk away.

George W. Bush is the one with the jaded outlook on reality, but don't look to this thread to see that, check out the numbers.

Tell me, when was the last time Bush said anything about creating jobs here at home?
Have you looked at the numbers for yourself?
I have, and the truth is appalling.

I've granted this Administration with all the passes my conscience will allow and the next Republican that goes after that seat had better have his priorities in line with what the Republican Party is supposed to stand for or i will skip that box completely.

Dude, I am still a Conservative at heart, but Bush is something quite different and we as a nation cannot afford his kind of Conservatism.

The only people that don't see that he is not practicing what he's preaching are wearing blinders, and i do speak from experience on that...I am ashamed of myself for not seeing this Administration for what it is sooner.

[Warham]

But you won't vote Democrat in 2008, right?

[Nitro Express]

I thought the article was spot on. Did you know the US is currently running a trade deficit with Mexico right now? Trade deficits mean wealth is flowing out of the country. Iraq is the first foriegn war to be financed with foriegn money.

Basically, the US runs on a credit card and the Chinese pay the monthly minimum payment. There's a huge principle to be paid and if our credit goes bad, all the money you have in your bank account goes worthless. No big deal since most Americans are in debt anyways. As long as someone loans us the money we will chug on.

The problem is the outsourcing of manufacturing. We are losing are capability to produce goods, including military goods. We are also losing the skilled people who run the factories. I'm talking machinists and fabricators with years of experience that won't be easy to find in an emergency. Meanwhile, China has the factories, people, and the technology. Like Nazi Germany, they are building a huge military at record speed as we speak. Let's not forget if China moves against Taiwan, we are obligated by law to defend Taiwan. We could literally be at war with China in a few years, or we can surrender and lose all our military clout like the French did in WWII.

The article points out that our poor fiscal management has put us in a bad economic corner where foriegners can crash our economy and buy us cheap. What the article doesn't point out is how China used the short term greed of our politicians and corporate leaders to sell us out for the quick buck. Now we are in a national security crisis. We can build things the way we did in the past. We have no factories nor the people who can run them. We have a bunch of buerocrats who push paper for the govt. who is now our biggest employer. We make hardly anything.

Yeah, so what the Chinese are doing right now is playing chess with us and they are going to be able to checkmate our king if we don't wake up. In fact, maybe we are past the point of no return. What's at stake and how to fix it is a huge problem. Meanwhile, we break down our equipment, kill more soldiers, and run up more debt. in the middle east.

[Big Train]

Re: America running out of Time

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
September 23, 2005

America is running out of time
By Paul Craig Roberts

Focused on a concocted "war on terrorism," the Bush administration diverted money from the New Orleans levees to Iraq, with the consequence that the US now has a $100 billion rebuild bill on top of the war bill.

The Iraqi war has three beneficiaries: (1) al Qaeda, (2) Iran and (3) US war industries and Bush-Cheney cronies who receive no-bid contracts.

Everyone else is a loser.

The war has brought soaring profits to the military industries and the firms with reconstruction contracts at the expense of 20,000 US military casualties and tens of thousands of Iraqi civilian casualties.

The majority support withdrawal and the redirection of war spending to rebuilding New Orleans. Despite the clarity of the public’s wishes, the Republican Party continues to support the unpopular war.

The Bush administration is churning out red ink in excess of $1 trillion annually. The federal budget deficit is approaching $500 billion. The US trade deficit is approaching $700 billion.

The budget deficit is being financed by foreigners, primarily Asians who now hold enough US government debt to exercise power over US interest rates and the value of the dollar whenever they decide to use the power that Bush has placed in their hands.

The trade deficit is being financed by turning over the ownership of US assets and future income streams to foreigners, making Americans forever poorer from the loss of accumulated wealth.

For the time being, China is willing to accumulate US assets as a way of taking over our consumer markets, attracting US manufacturing industry with cheap labor subsidized by artificial currency values, and gaining our technology. China’s strategy is to over-value the US dollar in order to encourage the transfer of US economic capabilities to China. China’s strategy gives artificial value to the dollar and keeps US interest rates at an artificial low.

The values of US stocks, bonds, and real estate depend on the support that Asians’ economic strategies provide the dollar and US interest rates. As Asia achieves its goal of preeminence in manufacturing, innovation, and product development, the strategy will change. Once China completes its acquisition of US capabilities, it will no longer have a reason to support the dollar.

When the dollar goes, it will affect costs, profits, interest rates and living standards in dramatic ways. Costs and interest rates will soar, and profits, living standards, equity values, bond prices and real estate will plummet.

These unpleasant events await only Asia’s decision to curtail its support for US red ink. That will happen when this support no longer serves Asia’s interest.

When Asia pulls the plug on the dollar, the US government will find that monetary and fiscal policy are powerless to offset the consequences.

Compared to US budget and trade deficits, terrorists are a minor concern. The greatest danger that the US faces is the dollar’s loss of reserve currency role. This would be an impoverishing event, one from which the US would not recover.

How many time do you think this guy failed economics? By this article, I count at least 3-4 times.

He takes facts here and makes WILD assumptions, which zero facts to back them up.

First, if China were to "call in all our debt", which is impossible anyway, the basis for the SALES of what their factories produce would essentially cripple them (no other nation consumes half as much per capita as we do). They would shoot themselves in the foot, why? It's better to keep us down, but their economy is not above the law of economics either. The same trials and tribulations and international politics apply to THEIR factories as well. 1987 anyone?

Military contracts benefit millions of people (Macroeconomics 101 here). The people in the company make money which they spend in their communities. New Orleans is going to make billions for companies NOT named Halliburton, which libs refuse to acknoledge. The Southern boom is going to remain for the rest of the decade.

The debt I can agree with, as well as industries. We need to invent and dominate new industries and we have to get serious about intellectual property (not a word about my business). New dominance is the only way for us to get our stroke back and the debt under control. The companies coming up with the new technology need to be protected to allow growth and stability in the American economy.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by Warham
But you won't vote Democrat in 2008, right?

Oh hell no, I am incapable of voting for a Democrat for the Presidency.
I have supported local Democrats though because it isn't about electing my preferred party as much as it is voting for a person who is qualified to do the job satisfactorily for all the people in their respective communities.

I'm not as elloquent as some of you with my political verbage, and i basically stay away from media opinions and look at the facts to form my own.
Problem with that is that you can't get a factual view of what someone's going to do in politics until they do it and the results speak for themselves.

For me personally, Bush drifted off the course that made me support him, and a few things he's done seemed like a slap in the face to the values he led me to believe he was going to uphold.
It isn't about one single issue as BBB suggested with Terri Schiavo either, though that was the first in a series of let downs from this Administration. but i respect his opinions and his views just the same.

What i feel represents me may not represent anyone else, and the same goes for everyone even though we support the same party.
We all have different priorities and see things differently, but we have certain things in common that leads us to one side or the other.

At the end of the day though, as far as i'm concerned and what i see going on, there isn't much that is fundamentally Conservative about this Administration in my opinion.
No matter how much i wanted to and tried to believe that Bush was the right man for the job, his second terms agenda so far hasn't floated my boat and i see it as being a destructive influence on the core values this country has held historically.

The last Democrat President that i could have voted for was John F. Kennedy. I did a report on him in 8th grade and what i learned about the man earned my respect.
Since then, I don't have a clue what the hell that party even stands for, especially since Bush came along and their deep seeded ability to hate was exposed.

I'm not down with that program and I know that they don't have MY best interests in mind because i don't see the world the way they do.

But i'll leave it to the electorate if i can't get behind the candidate. I'll never vote for a lesser of two evils again.
The local elections are more important in that case and i will concentrate on supporting good people that will eventually work their way to a run for President.
If they are corrupted during that journey then it is our responsibility as US citizens to send them packing so we don't end up with people like Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Bush Sr., Bush Jr. or whoever pops up where a vote has to be made based on good faith or based on a strict party line voting practice.

The grab for power is something both sides are 200% guilty of, but history dictates that the best and most successful periods in our history were when the majority of the people could position themselves in the middle with slight leanings to the right or left.
Today it is the opposite and it's a cluster fuck to say the least.

Sorry i was so long winded in this response but i have so much to say and i still didn't get it all out, lol.

But i think you get where i'm at given whats here, so i'll shut up now.

Roth On!

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by Nitro Express
I thought the article was spot on. Did you know the US is currently running a trade deficit with Mexico right now? Trade deficits mean wealth is flowing out of the country. Iraq is the first foriegn war to be financed with foriegn money.

Basically, the US runs on a credit card and the Chinese pay the monthly minimum payment. There's a huge principle to be paid and if our credit goes bad, all the money you have in your bank account goes worthless. No big deal since most Americans are in debt anyways. As long as someone loans us the money we will chug on.

The problem is the outsourcing of manufacturing. We are losing are capability to produce goods, including military goods. We are also losing the skilled people who run the factories. I'm talking machinists and fabricators with years of experience that won't be easy to find in an emergency. Meanwhile, China has the factories, people, and the technology. Like Nazi Germany, they are building a huge military at record speed as we speak. Let's not forget if China moves against Taiwan, we are obligated by law to defend Taiwan. We could literally be at war with China in a few years, or we can surrender and lose all our military clout like the French did in WWII.

The article points out that our poor fiscal management has put us in a bad economic corner where foriegners can crash our economy and buy us cheap. What the article doesn't point out is how China used the short term greed of our politicians and corporate leaders to sell us out for the quick buck. Now we are in a national security crisis. We can build things the way we did in the past. We have no factories nor the people who can run them. We have a bunch of buerocrats who push paper for the govt. who is now our biggest employer. We make hardly anything.

Yeah, so what the Chinese are doing right now is playing chess with us and they are going to be able to checkmate our king if we don't wake up. In fact, maybe we are past the point of no return. What's at stake and how to fix it is a huge problem. Meanwhile, we break down our equipment, kill more soldiers, and run up more debt. in the middle east.

I don't thik it is so much spot on because if he went into detail i know i'd find things to disagree on.
but the main framwork and the jist of what he is saying is factual and can be supported in general.

Maybe that was his intention, which is a plus in my view.

[Warham]

Originally posted by Cathedral
Oh hell no, I am incapable of voting for a Democrat for the Presidency.
I have supported local Democrats though because it isn't about electing my preferred party as much as it is voting for a person who is qualified to do the job satisfactorily for all the people in their respective communities.

I'm not as elloquent as some of you with my political verbage, and i basically stay away from media opinions and look at the facts to form my own.
Problem with that is that you can't get a factual view of what someone's going to do in politics until they do it and the results speak for themselves.

For me personally, Bush drifted off the course that made me support him, and a few things he's done seemed like a slap in the face to the values he led me to believe he was going to uphold.
It isn't about one single issue as BBB suggested with Terri Schiavo either, though that was the first in a series of let downs from this Administration. but i respect his opinions and his views just the same.

What i feel represents me may not represent anyone else, and the same goes for everyone even though we support the same party.
We all have different priorities and see things differently, but we have certain things in common that leads us to one side or the other.

At the end of the day though, as far as i'm concerned and what i see going on, there isn't much that is fundamentally Conservative about this Administration in my opinion.
No matter how much i wanted to and tried to believe that Bush was the right man for the job, his second terms agenda so far hasn't floated my boat and i see it as being a destructive influence on the core values this country has held historically.

The last Democrat President that i could have voted for was John F. Kennedy. I did a report on him in 8th grade and what i learned about the man earned my respect.
Since then, I don't have a clue what the hell that party even stands for, especially since Bush came along and their deep seeded ability to hate was exposed.

I'm not down with that program and I know that they don't have MY best interests in mind because i don't see the world the way they do.

But i'll leave it to the electorate if i can't get behind the candidate. I'll never vote for a lesser of two evils again.
The local elections are more important in that case and i will concentrate on supporting good people that will eventually work their way to a run for President.
If they are corrupted during that journey then it is our responsibility as US citizens to send them packing so we don't end up with people like Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Bush Sr., Bush Jr. or whoever pops up where a vote has to be made based on good faith or based on a strict party line voting practice.

The grab for power is something both sides are 200% guilty of, but history dictates that the best and most successful periods in our history were when the majority of the people could position themselves in the middle with slight leanings to the right or left.
Today it is the opposite and it's a cluster fuck to say the least.

Sorry i was so long winded in this response but i have so much to say and i still didn't get it all out, lol.

But i think you get where i'm at given whats here, so i'll shut up now.

Roth On!

Thanks for that thoughtful response.

I think the folks at the Democratic party are fooling themselves by thinking they've somehow got the 2006 and 2008 elections all wrapped up just because Bush's approval ratings are in the 40% range. Somehow they think all those fairweather Republicans and Independents are just going to pull the handle for the D next time around. I don't feel the same. The DNC has done nothing to show they have anything to offer except for a hatred for anything Bush the last five years.

Even though you've now said you don't like Bush, that doesn't immediately mean you'll pull the lever for Hillary in '08.

[Cathedral]

I'm a Conservative Republican at heart, and except for my views on homosexuality and abortion i stay towards the center, but not left of center...a guy can get hit head on like that, lol.

It could be worse though, we could have had a Pat Robertson type in office.
I've had it with people that walk half step in line with scripture while preaching fire and brimstone to others and don't lead by example.

I include myself in that description too, I'm no saint and fail more than i succeed on faith issues.

But i'm working on that.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by Warham
Thanks for that thoughtful response.

I think the folks at the Democratic party are fooling themselves by thinking they've somehow got the 2006 and 2008 elections all wrapped up just because Bush's approval ratings are in the 40% range. Somehow they think all those fairweather Republicans and Independents are just going to pull the handle for the D next time around. I don't feel the same. The DNC has done nothing to show they have anything to offer except for a hatred for anything Bush the last five years.

Even though you've now said you don't like Bush, that doesn't immediately mean you'll pull the lever for Hillary in '08.

Well, they do promote charity, though i don't think it's in their best interests to have the type of expectations you described.

It's one thing to underestimate someone else, but when you do that to yourself?
That's not good at all.

I'm interested to see how things unfold over the next few years, and i hope i can re-gain confidence in my party.
that will depend on who rises to the top and i'll be more critical of them than ever before.

[Nitro Express]

You are right, the United States is the world's largest consumer and no capatialist in their right mind would want to screw their best customer. But the Chinese are not capitalist. They were Communists and evolved into Socialists. The two main problems is the United States got duped and basically gave the Chinese our manufacturing industries and our technology. The second problem is we have to relie on the Chinese continuing to finance our debt. so we can continue to buy.

In western economic terms, the scenero that China finances our debt so we can buy their stuff so why in the hell would they want to mess that up? isn't reliable in a real world sense. The main power brokers in China are the military. The world's fastest growing I may add. Chinese Generals are getting cocky and saying they are going to take Taiwan and if the US does anything, they will nuke us. These generals are past thinking trade, they are thinking conquer. The United States right now could wipe out China in a first nuclear strike, but some of these Chinese Generals are shooting off their cocky mouths. Guys, that can give big orders and take their own govt. over. Remember Tianamen square? Nothing has changed there. The Chinese military runs things, not the politicians.

Predicting the future is hard to do. The devil is in the details, but we have put too much of our country's future in the hands of China. If some rogue General wants to crash our economy, he can do that on a whim. So why make it easy for them to do it? Assuming they won't is stupid.

[Cathedral]

I don't see a way out of this at all.
The Democrats as well as the Republicans are too greedy to stop outsourcing our future.

[Satan]

Originally posted by Nitro Express
no capatialist in their right mind would want to screw their best customer.

Except prostitutes, of course

[DLR'sCock]

Originally posted by Phil theStalker
It's not all BCI. It's also the Rockefeller crime family (more so), the Saud crime family (less so), the Li crime family (very much so), and so on and so on for a few thousand crime families who are globalists and not NATIONALISTS.

The people do not unerstand that the true elites, the true KINGS of the world, the MULTI BILLIONAIRES are the ones that call the shots and don;t give a fucking rats ass about anyone except themselves.


and they all dance to the song...


fools...

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by DLR'sCock
The people do not unerstand that the true elites, the true KINGS of the world, the MULTI BILLIONAIRES are the ones that call the shots and don;t give a fucking rats ass about anyone except themselves.


and they all dance to the song...


fools...

And THAT is the honest to God truth. There are a handful of elite, the absurdly wealthy in this country, and THEY control everything. Why? Because they're the ones who make the campaign contributions. They're the ones who set the agenda when the person in question gets elected. They're the "special interest group" the every single elected politican panders to and makes propositions for, in greater or lesser fashion. They could give a fuck about the average American deciding between dinner and rent, just so long as their investments are paying off for them.

It ain't Republican vs. Democrat, that shit's old. It's the wealthy vs. the poor, and we've already lost that battle. The only thing stopping us poor folk from killing them outright in massive lynches at this point is the stranglehold of religion.

[Big Train]

Originally posted by Nitro Express
You are right, the United States is the world's largest consumer and no capatialist in their right mind would want to screw their best customer. But the Chinese are not capitalist. They were Communists and evolved into Socialists. The two main problems is the United States got duped and basically gave the Chinese our manufacturing industries and our technology. The second problem is we have to relie on the Chinese continuing to finance our debt. so we can continue to buy.

In western economic terms, the scenero that China finances our debt so we can buy their stuff so why in the hell would they want to mess that up? isn't reliable in a real world sense. The main power brokers in China are the military. The world's fastest growing I may add. Chinese Generals are getting cocky and saying they are going to take Taiwan and if the US does anything, they will nuke us. These generals are past thinking trade, they are thinking conquer. The United States right now could wipe out China in a first nuclear strike, but some of these Chinese Generals are shooting off their cocky mouths. Guys, that can give big orders and take their own govt. over. Remember Tianamen square? Nothing has changed there. The Chinese military runs things, not the politicians.

Predicting the future is hard to do. The devil is in the details, but we have put too much of our country's future in the hands of China. If some rogue General wants to crash our economy, he can do that on a whim. So why make it easy for them to do it? Assuming they won't is stupid.

As long as greed rules the world, and you can rest assured it does, it doesn't matter what they call themselves or what they do, dress or profess to believe. Taking us over or ruining our economy makes NO sense, if not just for losing their best customer, but for pissing off everyone else in the world, making them lose THEIR best customer. You want to talk end times, that would be it..

It will remain the status quo, until events turn their economy upside down, which something most assuredly will...its the law of nature.