Christmas Under Attack: A Manufactured Crisis

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Utterly bogus point.

Education is not just for breeders, cat, we ALL live and die by the educations our next generation receives.

Having said that, as Nick is a TEACHER, I believe he is MORE than qualified to speak on this.

It can only be bogus if you know what my point was, true?

Geez, you guys hunt in packs or what?
I reply to Ford and Nick responds, then i reply to Nick and you respond.

Anyway, since you are the one calling me on what you think my point was, being bogus, i'll explain what my point was and see who responds to my reply to you...maybe it will be Ford and we'll come full circle, lol.

By asking Nick if he has children I am NOT trying to invalidate his input, I simply want to know if he is speaking from experience or something else, it wasn't a trick question.
But, his being a teacher doesn't make him All Knowing about anything, and i'll tell you why...His assumption of the quality of the education MY child recieves in a Private School is completely wrong.
he doesn't even have it right on what goes on in a Christian School by his last reply.

I've been a parent for 20 years, and i have been in and out of schools during school hours many many times in that period and my youngest is the only of my two kids that has gone to private school.
My oldest always went to Public Schools, and even though i held the same principles with her as i do my baby, she had developed serious issues of acceptance of things I didn't install in her, things i didn't find proper...But she knew the difference and always made the best decisions.
My youngest went to 1st grade in a public school and the entire year was hell for her. she forgot to take her bible out of her school bag on Sunday and got suspended 3 days for even having it in the building, i was pissed but i got over it because i wrongly respected the fact that it was a banned book from the school system, fine, whatever, our mistake i guess.
but then there were death threats and bomb threats and all sorts of disciplinary problems from other kids there, bad home lives where parents just didn't care about their kids or whatever.
I drew the line when she was assaulted on the school bus and scarred on her face for life while the driver did nothing.
The school even tried to defend her actions and didn't even discipline the child who assaulted her, that was it, all this grief in first grade? forget that shit, action was going to be taken now.

Oh yeah, that sat real well with me, so well that i funded Tara's first year in private school with the settlement the school offered for me NOT to press charges against the school and the bus driver.

In the last 4 years she has done superbly in school and guess what, nothing at all like what we had to deal with in the public system, oh, i'm sorry, Nick "Ohio's" public school system, has had to be dealt with.

I don't expect anyone who hasn't been through what we have to understand, but when you start off challenging me by calling me a Dolt for doing what is best for my child, Fuck You, plain and simple, it's un-christian of course, but i'm human and it pissed me off.

So, if i am going to end or continue a discussion with someone I want to know where they stand, from experience or from popular opinion that i can already see is based on ignorance.

[FORD]

Let me tell you about the public school I graduated from....

Now I'm not going to claim it was perfect. Far from it. In fact the district where I went to kindergarten and first grade was far better in many ways - but that's a whole other story.

I would say that half the teachers in my school were professing born again Christians.

The head of the science department, believe it or not. I didn't have him for Biology, but I wouldn't be surprised if he mentioned theories other than Darwinism. Incidentally, "creationism vs evolution" was one of my chosen topics in debate class, and that teacher (not a born again and very likely gay) didn't have a problem with the topic.

One of my math teachers managed to work a reference to Revelations into a story problem. BTW, he was also the county chair of the Republican party.

We had a Bible study group before school hours. Though it obviously couldn't carry an "official endorsement" from the school district, there were teachers involved, and the Principal stopped by to check in.

Oh, and the guy who became the superintendent of the school district a couple years after I graduated? He once told his son that "Christian rock is about as logical as Christian prostitution"

So much for my godless, liberal public education........

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by ELVIS
Like learning to put a condom on a cucumber ??

Jesus Christ, what kinda schools did YOU attend????????

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Cathedral
It can only be bogus if you know what my point was, true?

Geez, you guys hunt in packs or what?
I reply to Ford and Nick responds, then i reply to Nick and you respond.

Anyway, since you are the one calling me on what you think my point was, being bogus, i'll explain what my point was and see who responds to my reply to you...maybe it will be Ford and we'll come full circle, lol.
.

LMMFAO

It's called tag-team liberalism. We learned it in public school


I've been a parent of 3 for 11 years, and I find most of our teachers jaded, apathetic, and feeling put out. And this is one of the nicer public districts in Western Washington.

You have to admit, though, the phrasing of your question to Nick did deem like rhetorical, and that you were to pounce on him O'Reilly style upon his reply.

It's okay, it's your nature

[Cathedral]

LMMFAO, agreed, I see your point.

And look, I don't even blame the teachers, I fully understand the frustration by most because it isn't the teachers that run the schools. so in my view they are as much the victim as the children in that system.

I see the reports about those who take their political agendas to the classromm, which is wrong, but those kinds of teachers are few and far between.
I actually respect anyone who decides to take a teaching position because they are pushed up against the wall from the start.

my point is that our school system failed and when it comes to my kids, you don't get a second chance.
I do what is best for them and that's all there is to it.

[Millermoos]

Dear Elvis,
a moo stand not only for the sound of a cow but
MOO is short for MUD object oriented and is a type of MUD text-based virtual reality system, created by Stephen White (aka Ghondahrl aka ghond) in 1990. Examples of MOOs include PythonMOO, LambdaMOO, NowMOO, MediaMOO, and LinguaMOO. MOOs can be programmed using the MOO programming language.

Well go to learnspanish.com and leave us alone...
Who cares!
Ah don't worry I am going to live you alone now...
Millermooos

[Millermoos]

I know some gals like to have virtual names such as Victoria Pie or I don't know Shirley Valentine I prefer Millermoos for myself. Oh I have to remember to live you alone!

[Steve Savicki]

Originally posted by ELVIS
We think so...

Better those two than <center></center>

[bastardog]

Millermoos
Deja que Elvis se siga pudriendo en el infierno.

...and by the way Feliz Navidad means Merry Christmas
Navidad comes from Natividad that is like born
so it is something like say happy Christ birth celebration.

But for most latino families Christmas (Navidad) begin in December as you do but ends after January 6 (another hollyday)

[FORD]

Originally posted by bastardog


But for most latino families Christmas (Navidad) begin in December as you do but ends after January 6 (another hollyday)

That explains the whole "12 days of Christmas" thing.

I believe that the Greek & Russian Orthodox churches also celebrate Christmas on January 6, though I don't remember what their reasoning for this is.

Remember that Joseph and Mary were on the road to Bethlehem to pay their taxes, so it's far more likely that JC was born in April.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Cathedral
It can only be bogus if you know what my point was, true?

Geez, you guys hunt in packs or what?
I reply to Ford and Nick responds, then i reply to Nick and you respond.

Anyway, since you are the one calling me on what you think my point was, being bogus, i'll explain what my point was and see who responds to my reply to you...maybe it will be Ford and we'll come full circle, lol.

By asking Nick if he has children I am NOT trying to invalidate his input, I simply want to know if he is speaking from experience or something else, it wasn't a trick question.
But, his being a teacher doesn't make him All Knowing about anything, and i'll tell you why...His assumption of the quality of the education MY child recieves in a Private School is completely wrong.
he doesn't even have it right on what goes on in a Christian School by his last reply.

I'll answer this one 'cause you mentioned me. You are correct that being a teacher does not make one all knowing. This is true. And I said MOST private schools are no better than a WELL FUNDED public school.

BTW, I went to a Catholic school for a few years in elementary, and it was far from the greatest educational experiences I had. I had a hot younger teacher that was cool, but others had old, very negative teachers that would berate her classes. I also felt like I was Math deficient for a couple of years after I returned to the public school system, when I routinely scored in the 80's on math in the parochial school.

There are however some great private schools (and I'm not talking about prep schools for the rich).

But one of the biggest pile of shit myths out in the public domain re. education is that "charter schools" will always be better than public institutions. For the most part, this is completely untrue and it bears out in statistics as they are just as costly, and the students fair no better overall, and they often draw money away from regular public schools.

I've been a parent for 20 years, and i have been in and out of schools during school hours many many times in that period and my youngest is the only of my two kids that has gone to private school.
My oldest always went to Public Schools, and even though i held the same principles with her as i do my baby, she had developed serious issues of acceptance of things I didn't install in her, things i didn't find proper...But she knew the difference and always made the best decisions.
My youngest went to 1st grade in a public school and the entire year was hell for her. she forgot to take her bible out of her school bag on Sunday and got suspended 3 days for even having it in the building, i was pissed but i got over it because i wrongly respected the fact that it was a banned book from the school system, fine, whatever, our mistake i guess.
but then there were death threats and bomb threats and all sorts of disciplinary problems from other kids there, bad home lives where parents just didn't care about their kids or whatever.
I drew the line when she was assaulted on the school bus and scarred on her face for life while the driver did nothing.
The school even tried to defend her actions and didn't even discipline the child who assaulted her, that was it, all this grief in first grade? forget that shit, action was going to be taken now.

Sadly CAT, this goes on all too often. I have a friend that used to teach where I had taught, she also hated the district and left. Well, she was punched in the back while breaking up a fight in her new district, and she has to get some form of surgery most likely, but she has to wait until she gets tenure, because she fears she'll be fired (denied it) otherwise...

And as for the Bible, I don't know what's up in Ohio, but I've seen (English) teachers with Bibles in their classrooms as well as in school libraries (it is literature in addition to being a religious text after all). If a kid had brought a Bible into my classroom, that would have been the least of my worries, believe me. I had ninth-graders higher than a kite, and a fucking worthless Administration that routinely looked the other way, and did little about drugs or alcohol.

Oh yeah, that sat real well with me, so well that i funded Tara's first year in private school with the settlement the school offered for me NOT to press charges against the school and the bus driver.

In the last 4 years she has done superbly in school and guess what, nothing at all like what we had to deal with in the public system, oh, i'm sorry, Nick "Ohio's" public school system, has had to be dealt with.

I don't expect anyone who hasn't been through what we have to understand, but when you start off challenging me by calling me a Dolt for doing what is best for my child, Fuck You, plain and simple, it's un-christian of course, but i'm human and it pissed me off.

So, if i am going to end or continue a discussion with someone I want to know where they stand, from experience or from popular opinion that i can already see is based on ignorance.

CAT, I wasn't calling you a dolt, I was referring to the supposed Christian Organizations (which is sort of a contradiction based on my admittedly limited readings of the Gospels), that seek milage out of this stuff, often wildly taking it out of context.

For example, I posted an article regarding the idiot Senator from Oklahoma that claimed that "lesbian" high school girls were constantly getting it on in the OK school bathrooms. His underlying fear was of course that he was inadequate and all women will turn into lesbians. It turned out to be patently false, alarmist bullshit. People take an isolated incident (if any incident in fact happened), and turn it into the "norm." In fact God is mentioned frequently in public schools. In the school system I was subbing in, they had a "moment of silence" after The Pledge (one nation under God. When I was a full time teacher, I often broached stories that had a religious, (and sometimes and anti-religious) moralist angle. So, I think there is a lot of alarmist hysteria based on some bad info out there.

[bastardog]

Originally posted by FORD
That explains the whole "12 days of Christmas" thing.

I believe that the Greek & Russian Orthodox churches also celebrate Christmas on January 6, though I don't remember what their reasoning for this is.

Remember that Joseph and Mary were on the road to Bethlehem to pay their taxes, so it's far more likely that JC was born in April.

January 6 is "The 3 Kings Day".
Some short time after Jesus was born (12 day by church...but unknown by Bible) there were 3 kings that was following a star sign to the birth place of the Mesiah to present him with some values.
That is the reason for the January 6 celebration on latin houses......even, that day was the only day when families do the gift thing.......until offcourse the Santa's thing start to flow. Now we do gifts the two days.

Jan 6 is even a non-labor day (as Dic 25) here in Puerto Rico

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Cathedral
LMMFAO, agreed, I see your point.

And look, I don't even blame the teachers, I fully understand the frustration by most because it isn't the teachers that run the schools. so in my view they are as much the victim as the children in that system.

I see the reports about those who take their political agendas to the classromm, which is wrong, but those kinds of teachers are few and far between.
I actually respect anyone who decides to take a teaching position because they are pushed up against the wall from the start.

my point is that our school system failed and when it comes to my kids, you don't get a second chance.
I do what is best for them and that's all there is to it.

BTW, not that it matters, but I never had a "political agenda" while in school, though I had several of my (smarter students) that would bring up Iraq in discussions, and the majority of them hated the war, and hated Pres. BUSH (I bit my tongue and I tacitly made fun of ALL PRESIDENTS). And I also read inherently anti-Communist novels by G. Orwell.

But what did happen was a student that was leftist musician type wrote an anti-war editorial that was very much anti-Fearless Leader for the school newspaper. The resident right wing lunatic bitch on the school board attacked the teacher running the paper (who was a dick btw, but that's another story) and tried to get the story pulled. So, it swings both ways. I think somebody finally spoke up and told her that this kid was old enough to serve in IRAQ, but he can't have freedom of speech to write about it.

Or, maybe her son could enlist instead of going to college.

So, I was a little nauseated when I saw Big TRAIN'S horrifying thread on one teacher in VT written by a op-ed douche bag that has nothing better to say.

I was honestly waiting for the punch-line.

Ooooooh! He made quizzes that mildly poked fun at BUSH, ooooooooooOOOoooooooHhh, the world's ending is caused by liberal teachers...

**vomit**

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
BTW, not that it matters, but I never had a "political agenda" while in school, though I had several of my (smarter students) that would bring up Iraq in discussions, and the majority of them hated the war, and hated Pres. BUSH (I bit my tongue and I tacitly made fun of ALL PRESIDENTS). And I also read inherently anti-Communist novels by G. Orwell.

But what did happen was a student that was leftist musician type wrote an anti-war editorial that was very much anti-Fearless Leader for the school newspaper. The right wing lunatic bitch on the school board attacked the teacher (who was a dick btw, but that's another story) and tried to get the story pulled. So, it swings both ways. I think somebody finally spoke up and told her that this kid was old enough to serve in IRAQ, but he can't have freedom of speech to write about it.

So, I was a little nauseated when I saw Big TRAINS horrifying thread on one teacher in VT written by a op-ed douche bag that has nothing better to say. I was waiting for the punch-line.

Ooooooh! He made quizzes that mildly poked fun at BUSH, ooooooooooOOOoooooooHhh, the worlds ending is cause by liberal teachers...

**vomit**

Okie dokie, I just read your posts, and i see your point, and i didn't have to O'Reilly ya to find the common ground, lol.

See Lounge, there is hope for me yet...

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Cathedral
Okie dokie, I just read your posts, and i see your point, and i didn't have to O'Reilly ya to find the common ground, lol.

See Lounge, there is hope for me yet...

You guys are both brilliant, passionate, opinionated, stubborn, and worth reading, even if your word counts tend to run into the billions

2006 is gonna be a barnburner