The Draft

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
This thread is interesting.

I never knew about this. You can register as a conscientious objector?

Back before gay people in the military could you just register as gay?

Do women have to do it now too?

It's really hard to have a serious discussion with you Sesh with Fozzie getting a hand job out of the corner of your eye while one reads your posts

[Seshmeister]

I'm sorry but Fozzie's expression just brings so much joy to me every time I post it's worth not being taken seriously any more.

The funny thing about the interweb is that when I change it and people read this thread your post is going to be completely bizarre...

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
I'm sorry but Fozzie's expression just brings so much joy to me every time I post it's worth not being taken seriously any more.

The funny thing about the interweb is that when I change it and people read this thread your post is going to be completely bizarre...

LMAO

As if everyone doesn't already think my posts are completely bizarre

[FORD]

Conscientious objector status wouldn't neccessarily keep you out of the military in a draft, if they really needed the numbers. But it would keep you from combat.

Not that I'd trust the current bastards to even keep up that end of the deal. From what I hear, they have lots of people in Iraq in positions other than what they signed on (and were trained) for.

[Nitro Express]

Originally posted by FORD
Conscientious objector status wouldn't neccessarily keep you out of the military in a draft, if they really needed the numbers. But it would keep you from combat.

Not that I'd trust the current bastards to even keep up that end of the deal. From what I hear, they have lots of people in Iraq in positions other than what they signed on (and were trained) for.

War changes everything. I thought we learned our lesson good in Vietnam but I guess we learned nothing from that one. I think we are heading back to the 1970's where nobody wanted anything to do with the military. Not so much that they hate soldiers but that they don't trust the govt. and it's abuse and misuse of soldiers. Why do you want to sign your freedoms away to a govt. you do not trust? Did you know that US Military Personel cannot badmouth the Commander & Chief? As one Air Force aviator once told me, if you are into politics, the military isn't for you because you are expected to follow orders and not to question those who gave the order.

Military's are dangerouse machines that demand loyalty. To sign up means giving up a lot of personal freedoms so the machine works smoothly. That's fine if the machine is ran by ethical people but I sure as hell don't want to be a Borg in Bushco's machine. Even if they want my 40 year old ass because they are desperate for a few good men.

[FORD]

Originally posted by EAT MY ASSHOLE

A draft and mandatory service would only do this country - ANY country - good. It would make everyone think six times before they support any war.

I don't know about that. Israel has mandatory service and they're ready to go to war at the drop of a yarmulke.

[EAT MY ASSHOLE]

Originally posted by FORD
I don't know about that. Israel has mandatory service and they're ready to go to war at the drop of a yarmulke.

Totally different circumstance. They're literally surrounded by a group of nations who have only one thing in common - the desire to eradicate Israel.

Israel simply would not - could not - exist without mandatory service.

Didn't you, FORD, find some information back during the 2004 elections where some Young Republican group was having a fund raising gala, and some lefty group attempted to buy an ad-space in their literature advocating mandatory service, and they were turned down on the grounds that The YRs didn't want to enter some depressing consideration into their party?

[FORD]

Originally posted by EAT MY ASSHOLE
Totally different circumstance. They're literally surrounded by a group of nations who have only one thing in common - the desire to eradicate Israel.

Israel simply would not - could not - exist without mandatory service.

Perhaps, but you said ANY country.

Didn't you, FORD, find some information back during the 2004 elections where some Young Republican group was having a fund raising gala, and some lefty group attempted to buy an ad-space in their literature advocating mandatory service, and they were turned down on the grounds that The YRs didn't want to enter some depressing consideration into their party?

Yeah, that sounds familiar. I probably also pointed out that the hypocrisy there was on the part of the Young Republicans who (like their neocon heroes) will enthusiastically support a war, knowing that they will never have to fight it.

In the case of a REAL war like World War II, you would have volunteers from across the political spectrum signing up (though still probably not the idle rich) but in this case, where the war is clearly one of choice designed to benefit the few, those who support it should be the ones fighting it, and if that requires drafting the little Republican shits, so be it.

I know we have at least two veterans of the current war posting regularly in this forum (and also Sarge possibly lurking now and then) so if you guys have an opinion on this subject, please jump in at any time....

[stringfelowhawk]

War changes everything. I thought we learned our lesson good in Vietnam but I guess we learned nothing from that one. I think we are heading back to the 1970's where nobody wanted anything to do with the military. Not so much that they hate soldiers but that they don't trust the govt. and it's abuse and misuse of soldiers. Why do you want to sign your freedoms away to a govt. you do not trust? Did you know that US Military Personel cannot badmouth the Commander & Chief? As one Air Force aviator once told me, if you are into politics, the military isn't for you because you are expected to follow orders and not to question those who gave the order.

Military's are dangerouse machines that demand loyalty. To sign up means giving up a lot of personal freedoms so the machine works smoothly. That's fine if the machine is ran by ethical people but I sure as hell don't want to be a Borg in Bushco's machine. Even if they want my 40 year old ass because they are desperate for a few good men.



The above statement is especially true for people like me who voluntarily enlisted fully knowing there was always the possibility of going to war. My first real experience after joining was being sent in support of stopping all the ethnic cleansing going on because of Milosovic in 1999 and after meeting an ethnic Albanian on a train in France shortly after it was over I was very happy I was a part of it. We had an 8 hour conversation on our way to Paris that I will never forget.

Then this joker got ushered in. I refuse to say elected! My attitude changed toward service the day after he took office. I have never disliked an individual more than I do George W. Bush and his administration. I have never seen a more despicable man get away with blatantly and openly breaking the law. He will destroy this country before he is out of office and that pisses me off more than a pimple on my nutsack. I can't believe that the citizens of this country have been so completely lulled into submission by a man who has to be protected from snack food. I get asked all the time why I got out when I was halfway to retirement since he would only be in office 2 more years. I always tell them the same thing. I can not work for someone I do not trust and DO NOT respect by any stretch of the imagination. I refuse to obey a man who has never been in my shoes telling me he knows what's best for me or my family. But the most glaring thing of all is how he feels confident he can launch a war against people who have been fighting their entire lives and win. He has never fought a war and his immediate advisors have never fought a war but are arrogant enough to believe they'll win after disregarding the advice of the people who have fought and DO KNOW how to fight a war. This administration has launched a two front war and simultaneously ignored the advice of senior military commanders. This is unexcuseable. You can't claim he has experience because he was in the Texas Air National Guard because he never went to Vietnam and has no combat experience but being the arrogant dumbass he is he probably thinks he's just the person to lead since he sat and watched Patton as a kid. This fucking monkey deserves to tried for his crimes against the citizens of this country and humanity.

[Seshmeister]

Good post.

On the election thing though even if he didn't win he was close enough in a way. And he was re-elected.

I understand the pain for people on that especially after living through 10 years of Thatcher which you probably won't know about but at the time she did the same division of the country here on domestic policy as Bush has in foreign policy in the US.

Bottom line is though that the majority of people voted him in no matter how painful that is to you. I think there is something worng with the system but noone is going to be able to change that...

[scamper]

There are quite a few countries in Europe that require mandatory enlistment in the military (draft) for a year or so. I thought every one wanted to be like Europe.

[Nickdfresh]

Most of those European conscripts (draftees) cannot be deployed outside their nation. That's why the French have a Foreign Legion along with a few elite all-volunteer units like Marines and airborne for example.

[Unchainme]

Of all the people..Nixon repealed it as a requirement to serve...and under him was rummy..

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Unchainme
Of all the people..Nixon repealed it as a requirement to serve...and under him was rummy..

He repealed it because it was the central genesis and foundation of the Anti-War movement. And by 72', the U.S. was drawing down while "Vietnamizing" the conflict.

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by scamper
There are quite a few countries in Europe that require mandatory enlistment in the military (draft) for a year or so. I thought every one wanted to be like Europe.

Not in Britain although if Blair keeps starting wars with everyone maybe we'll have to...

The thing is who wants second rate reluctant troops?