Who Will Stop The Next War?

[WACF]

Originally posted by FORD
Actually, Pat has always opposed the PNAC agenda. For that reason, he's gone from the scary bleeding edge of the right wing to far more "centrist" than Hillary Clinton in only 10 years. And his positions haven't changed at all, that's the truly frightening part. It's just that the Likud/AIPAC disease which controls the neocon shitbag Republicans and the DLC corporatist false "Democrats" has long passed Pat in terms of extremism.

My interest in your players weaves in and out so I lose track.

Is it fair to say then from your statement that Pat is centrist while Hilary as a Dem is more to the right?
Or...do you mean he has moved closer to the center and Hilary is farther to the left than center?

From what I see you gotta give him credit for not following into the fringe...you need both edges in the Right and Left for any party to work.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Nitro Express
Buchanan has written some good articles though. He's one of the few in Washington that actually understands finance/economics. I see him as one of the many Rebuplicans who moved to the center because they realized assholes were betting the party line would rubber stamp anything they wanted to do.

I have no beef with guys like Buchanan. I have major beef with people who still view Bush as a hero. Most of these people are in the religiouse right. It just goes to show you what sheep the Jesus Camp crowd is.

He's also a bit of a nationalistic, isolationist nutbag.

But he has a very good mind...

[FORD]

Originally posted by WACF
My interest in your players weaves in and out so I lose track.

Is it fair to say then from your statement that Pat is centrist while Hilary as a Dem is more to the right?
Or...do you mean he has moved closer to the center and Hilary is farther to the left than center?

From what I see you gotta give him credit for not following into the fringe...you need both edges in the Right and Left for any party to work.

What I'm saying is this....

In 1992, Pat Buchanan scared the Hell out of so many people that Republicans voted for Bill Clinton.

15 years later, Pat appears to be to the "left" of not only his own party, and former buddies in the Bush Criminal Empire, but also to the left of the DLC types who claim to be "Democrats"

Yet Pat's beliefs haven't changed. He still believes all the same things he did in 1992. Both parties - or at least the factions of those parties which get attention from the corporate whore media - have long since passed his right wing extemism, and the Likud/PNAC/AIPAC agenda is driving most of it.

[hideyoursheep]

Once again, FORD throwin' it down....

[WACF]

Originally posted by FORD
What I'm saying is this....

In 1992, Pat Buchanan scared the Hell out of so many people that Republicans voted for Bill Clinton.

15 years later, Pat appears to be to the "left" of not only his own party, and former buddies in the Bush Criminal Empire, but also to the left of the DLC types who claim to be "Democrats"

Yet Pat's beliefs haven't changed. He still believes all the same things he did in 1992. Both parties - or at least the factions of those parties which get attention from the corporate whore media - have long since passed his right wing extemism, and the Likud/PNAC/AIPAC agenda is driving most of it.

Remind me again...PNAC...what does it stand for?

What shifted the Dems to the right?
I can see how the Rebulicans can shift farther...but you would expect them at some point to come back...or is there little balance as far as left and right views within the same party?
Do you consider the Dems more right than center or just some factions?

On another note...do you guys have a more socialist type of party like our NDP or Green party?


A buddy wants to lend me a couple of books by Al Franken, I think one is called The Truth.
Any opinion on him?
From what little I have heard he seems like a realist...but I have only had a few snapshots of his stuff.

[Nitro Express]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
He's also a bit of a nationalistic, isolationist nutbag.

But he has a very good mind...

He understands global trade is great when you run a trade surplus and bad when you run a trade defficite. He also understands this escapade into Iraq has cost the US dearly in international trust.

The rest of the world looks at us as dumb, gluttonist, thugs.

Buccanan gets that.

[FORD]

Originally posted by WACF
Remind me again...PNAC...what does it stand for?

Project for a New American Century

What shifted the Dems to the right?

The creation of the so-called "Democratic Leadership Council" (DLC) While the organization started out with a legitimate goal, reclaiming the South for the Democratic party, it has since been taken over by corporatist interests and is funded by many of the same corporations as the Republican party itself. Former DLC members such as Howard Dean and Al Gore are totally disgusted with what the DLC has turned into, and their only actual successful national candidate so far has been Bill Clinton, whose win can be attributed far more to his own skills as a charismatic leader and politician then they can to the policies of the DLC.

I can see how the Rebulicans can shift farther...but you would expect them at some point to come back...or is there little balance as far as left and right views within the same party?

There are so few moderate Republicans left in Congress that you can literally count them on one hand. And every Republican administration in the White House since 1952 has been under the control of the Bush Criminal Empire. Richard Nixon was a protege of Prescott Bush and helped a lot of Grandpa Prescott's Nazi buddies escape prosecution, and even immigrate into America in the late 40's.

Do you consider the Dems more right than center or just some factions?

Mostly the DLC faction. The problem is that there are very few if any that are truly "left" of center, since the meaning of center itself has been so distorted. Dennis Kucinich would be considered a moderate in most other Democratic countries, yet in this country, certain groups get away with painting Hillary Clinton, a corporatist warmonger, as "an extremist Liberal".

On another note...do you guys have a more socialist type of party like our NDP or Green party?

We have a Green party which has gained some success in local races in some states. In San Francisco, the candidate with the second highest vote total was a Green. Unfortunately, due to the corporatist nature which has taken over the national election, there's no realistic way that any other party can compete with the big two parties. Sometimes I wish we had a parliamentary system like Canada, so a smaller party would at least have enough votes to influence policy, if not a majority. If I was Canadian, I'd probably be NDP, though I'll admit I haven't read the party's platform, it's my understanding that they are the true liberal party, as opposed to the Liberal party who are more establishment centrists, and probably an internal DLC-ish corporatist faction.

A buddy wants to lend me a couple of books by Al Franken, I think one is called The Truth.
Any opinion on him?
From what little I have heard he seems like a realist...but I have only had a few snapshots of his stuff.

I haven't bought a Franken book since "Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot", though I have read parts of "Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Conservative Right".

Both are very well done books. Franken is definitely a better writer than he was a radio host, there's no doubt about that. He's a little too DLC sympathetic at times, but he'll be a far better senator for Minnesota than Norm "used car salesman" Coleman.

[WACF]

Thanks for the answers.

I think you would enjoy having our parlimentary system.

With a Tory minority Goverment and the NDP with their 20 something seats they actually hold some power.
The Tories need them on side so some good deals get made.

I have watched quite abit of House Of Commons on CPAC(Cable Parliamentary Channel), while making supper...gives a great insight to the people we have in charge.
Question period is something your system really needs.

Our Liberal Pary is a more center party but as of late it seems the Tories have moved more to the center and the Libs to the left.
The NDP are easily our Socialist party...great ideas but no way of paying for it though.

[WACF]

That is quite the site...lots to go through.