Smoking Bans are Fascist

[knuckleboner]

Originally posted by Ellyllions
From what I understand it does somewhat boil down to genome science; in that people who are genetically predisposed to become ill with the trigger being smoke inhalation are more likely than someone who doesn't have that same illness as predominate in their genetic make-up or familial history.

In effect, making it somewhat impossible to make a generalization based on fact. From this angle it becomes more personalized. One may, while another may not.

Peter Jennings died of lung cancer without ever taking a draw off a cigarette. My uncle lived to the ripe old age of 80 without having one smoke free day in almost 60 years, and it wasn't lung cancer or heart disease that killed him.

i still think you can generalize.

on an individual basis, smoke inhalation may not lead to differing health problems for 2 people.

but aggregated, and you wind up with it being a factor. those who may be genetically pre-disposed, as a group, still get lung cancer in lower numbers without smoke inhalation, then do the people who regularly smoke.


i may not be able to tell sesh that he, himself, has a 1.54% chance of getting lung cancer. but, on a general level, i can probably tell smokers that 1.54% of their group will get lung cancer, versus 0.07% of the non-smoking population.

(and FYI, while it doesn't really matter for your argument, peter jennings definitely smoked. but dana reeves didn't, and she got lung cancer, so it doesn't change your argument...)

[Ellyllions]

LOL! thanks....I knew something was wrong with that sentence when I was proofing it...

[knuckleboner]

Originally posted by binnie
For those who argue the "health" angle: car fumes can effect you in precisley the same way as cigarrette fumes.

Are you suggesting a ban on motor transport.

Perhaps we could bring back horse and carriges? Oh, wait some people will be allergic to horses too so that's out of the question.

My point is, legislation can begin to border on the ridiculous.

eh...all true. same with coal-fired power plants. the smog from our electricity generation increases illnesses and deaths on some people.

though, on the one hand, there is a trade off, there. without cars and electricity, and other advances, we wouldn't be able to produce the same level of medical advances and such that we now have.

symantics, you say? well, yeah, that's mostly symantics. the fact is that a garbage man in los angeles is working in a less healthy work environment then somebody in an office in boise, idaho.

so, why don't we protect his environment, like we are beginning to do for some restaurant workers? good question.


on the other hand, if it helps restaurant workers, then i'm not overly concerned that we're not also doing it for every other group in society. at some point, it's a balance.

[FORD]

Originally posted by Ellyllions

Peter Jennings died of lung cancer without ever taking a draw off a cigarette. My uncle lived to the ripe old age of 80 without having one smoke free day in almost 60 years, and it wasn't lung cancer or heart disease that killed him.

Peter Jennings was actually a heavy smoker for decades. He actually quit, but then briefly took up the habit again on 9-11-01 (so I guess you can count him among the casualties)

And one of my grandfathers, who smoked like a chimney until his Alzheimer's dementia made him burn holes in most of his shirts and he was forced to quit for his own safety. He was 84 when he passed away.

But considering his mother lived to be 101 and he had an uncle who made it to 97, it could easily be said that he died "young".

[Lqskdiver]

Let's end this argument.

Keep it out of eateries.

Leave it in bars EXCLUSIVE to alcohol consumption...with the exception of bar snacks.

All in favor?

[Ellyllions]

So say we all....

[knuckleboner]

Originally posted by Lqskdiver
Let's end this argument.

Keep it out of eateries.

Leave it in bars EXCLUSIVE to alcohol consumption...with the exception of bar snacks.

All in favor?

still have the bar worker problem...

personally, as much as i HATE bars/restaurants with smoke, i wouldn't outlaw it simply based on me and my limited time there. i have the opportunity to leave at any time. or to not go at all.

if i'm going to pass the law, it's going to be for the workers' benefit.

[FORD]

Originally posted by Lqskdiver
Let's end this argument.

Keep it out of eateries.

Leave it in bars EXCLUSIVE to alcohol consumption...with the exception of bar snacks.

All in favor?

I think if you asked any of the tobacco junkies in this state, they would have to admit that the ban isn't that big of a deal. Most establishments have provided a covered area for smoking, some even have propane heaters so they don't get cold. Hell, I even know of one club that built a second bar near the smoking area so the poor junkies wouldn't have to inconvenience themselves by walking to the other end of the club with their reduced lung capacities and all

I'm sure it will be a cold day in Hell before Texas ever passes such a thing, but I can testify that it wasn't the end of the world for anybody.

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by Ellyllions
Shesh, I have also found ex-smokers to be very bitter in the anti-smoking argument.

Stop calling me Shesh!

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by FORD
I think if you asked any of the tobacco junkies in this state, they would have to admit that the ban isn't that big of a deal. Most establishments have provided a covered area for smoking, some even have propane heaters so they don't get cold. Hell, I even know of one club that built a second bar near the smoking area so the poor junkies wouldn't have to inconvenience themselves by walking to the other end of the club with their reduced lung capacities and all

I'm sure it will be a cold day in Hell before Texas ever passes such a thing, but I can testify that it wasn't the end of the world for anybody.

It can be a real misery though.

For example a couple of years ago I went out to a bar in Dublin with a couple who both smoked. The bar was popular and busy so no seats. You weren't allowed to take drinks outside but could only smoke outside.

So they would go out for a smoke leaving me holding our three drinks(so unable to drink and with noone to talk to) then they would come back and I would go out. Not a great night.

Also it can work against non smokers. I've been out where there is one non smoker left by himself constantly whilst the smokers disappear on mass every 30 minutes.

Cheers!

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by Lqskdiver
Let's end this argument.

Keep it out of eateries.

Leave it in bars EXCLUSIVE to alcohol consumption...with the exception of bar snacks.

All in favor?

I think the ultra fair option would be to ban it even from bars but allow bars to apply for a smoking license. To get the license they have to show they have good smoke extraction systems in the smoking areas.

I've been in a place that had that and I promise you no barstaff were
getting any passive smoke worth worrying about in any way.


Even a sissy like FORD wouldn't have complained...

I think these units cost around $12k or so, let the market decide.


The reason this hasn't been the case is that the second hand smoke health risk is a big 'smokescreen', pardon the pun.

The bans are about public health trying to get people to stop smoking.

A nanny state.

Cheers!

[Big Troubles]

Originally posted by Seshmeister


The bans are about public health trying to get people to stop smoking.

Cheers!

Too bad the same "public health" isn't showing the same amount of concern towards alcoholism in the very same bars these potential smokers might be.

:D

[FORD]

Originally posted by Big Troubles
Too bad the same "public health" isn't showing the same amount of concern towards alcoholism in the very same bars these potential smokers might be.

:D

If the bars kicked out alcoholics, they WOULD go out of business!!

Around here though, most places are very "anal" about over-serving and cops are known to walk through the bars and take notes of who they think might be over the limit, so they know who to follow at 2:00 AM

[Nickdfresh]

My consumption of alcohol doesn't really affect those around me, unless I drive of course, or spill beer into their mouths...

[Ellyllions]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Stop calling me Shesh!

Well what would you like to be called?
Your name is too long....:D

How about Meister?
Or SM?

Or just Hey you?

:D