Chimpy says he will VETO gas price gouging legislation

[WACF]

Originally posted by scamper
You do realize that the more gas costs the more your milk and lettuce etc... costs.

I do not know about down there but up hear Gas is much higher than Diesel...so truckers are not feeling as bad a pinch as the rest of us.

The cheapest I have seen Diesel here this week is .87/L while all gas is up to $1.21 per litre..down from $1.25 last weekend.

The same debate goes on about regulating prices but is it the government's job in a capatalist system.
While we can all agree we are getting fucked I think iit s more up to the consumer...ban certain companies until they need to lower the price to compete.

[WACF]

....Or do what Nick suggested...that is what may actually bring change.

[FORD]

I'm all for executing the oil bastards myself. I was for that before I heard of the Chinese case.

As far as I'm concerned, they are committing high treason by deliberately trashing the national and world economy through their greed. And last time I checked, the death penalty applied to treason.

[Big Train]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Oh shit! If OSHA gets in there, we'll be paying $8.00 for all the violations they'll find...

Violations, workmens comp suits etc..

This is true, but you gotta pick your poision.

[ace diamond]

Originally posted by WACF
....Or do what Nick suggested...that is what may actually bring change.

that would be an effective start.......the question then becomes"where do we go from here?"

[Big Train]

10 dollar gas is the only way to get to mass produced renewable energy.

It moves people who aren't "tree huggers" into the fold and changes the economics of scale. If there are millions of people who want say solar power (I'll keep my precious biodiesel out of the conversation lol..), there is incentive to make the changes necessary on a mass scale. With the scale comes cost reductions and further expansion.

Take heating costs. Wood stove sales are up something like 200% in the last two years in the midwest, faster than they can be made. Cords of wood are just plain cheaper than heating oil. It reached that tipping point.

WACF just said the phrase "Feeling the pinch". Feeling the bleeding gunshot hole in the budget is what is going to do it. A pinch you can live with.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Big Train
10 dollar gas is the only way to get to mass produced renewable energy.

I said in here over a YEAR ago that gas is too cheap in the US.

It should be twice what it is now , but with most of it going back into research, infrastructure, light rail, border security, etc, etc.


It's beyond time to regulate the BIG OIL INDUSTRY MACHINE.

FORD's right, and they're literally driving us to WAR.

Let 'em choose. Regulation or Redaction.

*** Exemptions of course would be plenty, and fraud and graft would ensue. duh.

But the path we're on now doesn't end well under any scenario.

Play it out to the end, and this administration's "war on terra" starts to make sense.

Good thing them terraists all happen to live on big pools of oil.

[Big Train]

Lounge,

I agree with you except for the point of where the profits go.

There is already plenty of research and prototypes out there. All they need at this point is private investment or the public markets. The demand and upside for the logical and easily implementable ones (biodiesel, solar) only need a small push to reach mass scale. Others, such as wind, might take more government intervention (for things like land use etc..).

It's all there, but there are a lot of fence sitters driving gasoline V8 pickups because it just doesn't hurt enough yet.

[LoungeMachine]

WHO KILLED THE ELECTRIC CAR?

http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/223/

BT is absolutely right [here.]

Fuck, that pisses me off.

[Steve Savicki]

Gas has a role to play in this role... yet the same history continues...

[Big Train]

Thanks for the credit.

My personal opinion is that the electric car killed the electric car. It was a stupid design. I liken it to string up tons of individual light bulbs to light up your backyard.

While some of the innovations of the electric car absolutely SHOULD be part of EVERY car design (regenetrative braking for ex-no idea if I spelled that correctly), that design ultimately wasn't practical enough to replace existing cars and trucks.

10 gas is good for the bad press alone, let them keep their profits.

[FORD]

Again, if the entire economy wasn't so hopelessly bound to petroleum products (due to the fact that every method of shipping burns the shit) then I might be agreeable to ridiculous gas prices.

But it's the poorest people who suffer. Even if they can take the bus to work - and if they have to work 2 or 3 jobs, that's not going to be easy. But even then, consider the poor folks food budgets. Whether they're using cash or food stamps at the grocery store, the amount of money they have to spend hasn't increased in the last 7 years, but the price of food has doubled at least in most cases. How is it fair to ask more of these people, when they're already paying most of the price.

And I mean that in more ways then one, since it ain't the rich fucks who are losing their sons, brothers, fathers, mothers, and daughters in this insane and illegal fuckup of a war.

How about $10/gal gas for Busheep and $1.50/gal gas for the rest of us? I'd say that's fair.

[steve]

Originally posted by FORD
...And this is while the greedy oil corporate bastards continue to rack up record profits every quarter...

Ford, you are correct about the oil executives being greedy, but it does not refute Peak Oil. Don't take my word for it, don't take the greedy oil execs word for it. Look up info for yourself. Yes, the Oil Execs are the carpetbaggers of our current day. But just as the carpet baggers only took advantage of the fact that there was a Civil War, Oil Execs are taking advantage of the beginning of Peak Oil.

Originally posted by FORD
...There's no shortage of oil, at least in the short term.

Where have you been? There's no more oil in the US. Our former biggest supplier, Mexico, has recently passed their peak oil production and is now seeing declines of almost 10% a year. Why do you think we went to Iraq?! You of all people, know why. Just look at the numbers: As recently as the early nineties, we still were a majority domestic oil producer (shortly before Gulf War I). Now, it's what, 15-20% domestic production? I could be slightly off, but that's about the ballpark. Is that a coincidence?

I almost want to say, "If you want cheap oil, you want wars to get it" (with some sort of angry exclaimation point!), but this, to me, puts too high a moral burden on peoples' mere shocking disbelief that our way of life is coming to an end. I prefer to keep beating the obvious truth (we're running out of oil) into folks' heads, no matter how hard it is to accept.

You've got to put aside the Bush administration and do a google search on the subject, think about it fresh, read what the geologists, scientists, economists, etc have to say (the oil industry is far more optimistic than any of them - trust me, they are not the ones pushing peak oil-their stocks would collapse!). There is plenty of info out there and even the most optimistic projections are for peak oil in 20 years or so - which might as well be tomorrow considering how slowly a society can reinvent it's foundation.

That said, oil production (barrels out of the ground) was higher in 2005 than either 2006 or 2007.

Now...back to taxing gasoline (incremented slowly over 8 years) in a desperate attempt to change our habits to avoid going to war against Venezuela, Nigeria, and Iran too...

My concept is this:
1. ALL gas tax money goes to suport the military budget.
2. After 8 years, the military budget/"War on Terror" is then 100% supplied by the new flat Federal gas tax.
3. Federal income taxes are CUT (progressively more than 50% for the poor, 30% for the wealthy) -since almost half the Federal income tax revenue goes to the military budget and war on terror.

4. The Federal Gas Tax is dubbed the "Patriot Tax" and all those against are dubbed unpatriotic .

The choice is ours: use less gas or start fighting constant wars to keep it cheap.

Plus, this gives folks who don't support a certain war a true means to protest it.

I don't deny that this would mean short term pain while our energy usage, land development practices, and transport modes find new equilibriums, but it is certainly better than constant war, no??

[FORD]

How about higher gas prices ONLY in "red states"??

It's not right to ask the people who did not want this bullshit war to pay for it.

I'm well aware that the LONG TERM supply of oil is fucked. When I say short term, I'm referring to all the lies these fucking bastards tell about refineries and pipelines, when the only reason these things aren't producing enough is that THEY deliberately shut them down to keep the gas prices artificially high in the first place.

The only time during this Fraudministration where there was ever TRULY even a temporary loss of oil supply was the immediate aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, where the Gulf oil ports were temporarily shut down. And even then, Chimpy refused to open up the oil reserves so not to cause a drop in the supply.

Iraq was not about ensuring the continuation of "cheap oil". The typical right wing Toby Keith loving shitheads cheered on the invasion, because that's what they thought the result would be. As it was when Bush Sr fraudulently raised the price of gas in the fall of 1990, and then dropped again once his invasion of Iraq was over.

But this time control of the oil supply was for different reason...... The Big 4 multinational oil companies want to control the price and keep it high. And to do that, they must control the supply. That's why Iran and Venezula are also targets. Especially Venezuela, because Chavez nationalized the oil, and has even sold it to poor people in the US. And we can't have that, can we?

[Big Train]

Originally posted by FORD
How about higher gas prices ONLY in "red states"??

It's not right to ask the people who did not want this bullshit war to pay for it.

By that same logic, it's not right to allow those who did not fight for it (yes, nick and whoever else, that includes ME) to be allowed to consume it. So basically on soliders should be allowed to drive.

Makes no sense right? If this Peak Oil stuff is true, then what I'm saying about demand and alternative fuel will create such a demand, it will happen sooner than later.

Ford, you have a point, the poor always suffer the most. However, offer them option b, new forms of cheap energy and basic math dictates they will gravitate towards it as fast as possible.

Demanding cheaper oil or sanctions, which results in cheaper oil only slows that natural process down.

The real question is: What happens after Peak Oil? Mideast instability like never before. Why do you think all those governments are so diviserified with those profits? Those poor in those countries will continue to suffer the most.