I don't post here often, but...

[Nickdfresh]

At least in the last 20 years or so, the stigma of a politician having once smoked pot as gone down to nil.

I remember when it was a huge deal in the 80s...

[kwame k]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
At least in the last 20 years or so, the stigma of a politician having once smoked pot as gone down to nil.

I remember when it was a huge deal in the 80s...

You're right about that. You never even hear about that now or not very often. Clinton with the "I didn't inhale" and all that crap. 90's

Other countries have decriminalized personnel use. I haven’t looked at the stats but I can’t imagine the total collapse of it’s infrastructure due to decriminalization.

Really it’s about personal responsibility and being accountable for you own actions. If only our government would stop treating us like children and let us decide.

Then again, maybe having the inmates running the asylum, isn’t that bright of an idea.

[Nickdfresh]

I think Alaska and perhaps California, are almost totally decriminalized when it comes to small amounts...

[sadaist]

Unfortunately, there is always a counterbalance. Doctors do over prescribe drugs, but there is also a growing trend of doctors under prescribing as well. Many people abuse prescription drugs & many doctors are getting in trouble leading to some people who truly need the drugs can't get them.

There have been a couple of times in the past few years where I've chosen to just go in to a local urgent care and pay cash for minor illnesses. I've seen a lot of large signs stating clearly that in "NO CIRCUMSTANCES" will opiates be prescribed (Vicodin, Oxycontin, etc...). They will tell you to see your regular physician. What if you don't have a regular physician and can only afford crappy urgent care treatment?

This thing has been bad all around and has caused many more problems than it has solved.

[cadaverdog]

Something to think about.
Downers and alcohal ( and downers alone)give you a nice buzz
if you don't overdose or get addicted .
But when you get hurt and they give you the same pills you
have been getting high on , you suddenly realize your body
has built up a tolerance to these pills and they are having little
effect on the pain you are feeling.
You could take a stronger dose , but then you run out.
You could ask for something stronger , but if the doctor asks you
to give back your unused meds and you have none , it is their
duty to cut you off completely .
Then you have to get your meds "on the street".
If you got a buddy who can tighten you up , cool.
Otherwise this could lead down a dark road.

[MERRYKISSMASS2U]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I think Alaska and perhaps California, are almost totally decriminalized when it comes to small amounts...

I think Denver has a very nice policy as well.

I know people think it's nuts, but I have much more faith in natural or non-addictive medicines than I do in the shit that doctors are paid to push.

A lot of doctors are drug dealers.


It really doesn't matter if it's legal or not, in terms of use.... everyone is going to smoke anyway.

But the thing is is that the JAIL and the lack of freedom makes me furious. It's NOT CHEAP either.

[Fairwrning]

Personally..I think this guy is gonna save the planet..I mean just look at him..or maybe its just the white outline that makes him look like God..then again, maybe its just the weed.

[MERRYKISSMASS2U]

I don't agree with that, nor do I agree with darkening his skin on the other side of the spectrum.

I wish people would look at someone's goals and ideals, not their skin or their personality.

[Tiki-Tom]

When you lump pot in with crack, heroin, and such then you've completely blown the intelligence of the argument.

[binnie]

Not to me Tiki, I'd legalize the lot.

Someone who is a violent drunk is just as much as a threat to me as someone on fucked-up on crack: how can one be legal and the other not?

Legalize and regulate is the only way forward. There will always be a small part of the population that is addicted and essentially a social nuissance/danger. That is unavoidable. However, I firmly believe that proportion would be smaller if ALL drugs were readily available and therefore cheaper.

But to limit the discussion solely to pot, I just can't see how it is illegal. From a social point of view it's a harmless drug.

[ULTRAMAN VH]

Originally posted by MERRYKISSMASS2U
I don't agree with that, nor do I agree with darkening his skin on the other side of the spectrum.

I wish people would look at someone's goals and ideals, not their skin or their personality.

Well maybe you should take a deeper look at the Messiah's goals. His first order of business is to burdon American taxpayers with a bill that will tack on an extra 845 billion dollars over a 13 year period via taxpayers money on top of what the U.S. already spends on foreign aid. If that is okay with you, then please send me the seeds from your money tree so I can can plant a few of my own. Then I won't have a problem with this bill.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by ULTRAMAN VH
Well maybe you should take a deeper look at the Messiah's goals. His first order of business is to burdon American taxpayers with a bill that will tack on an extra 845 billion dollars over a 13 year period via taxpayers money on top of what the U.S. already spends on foreign aid. If that is okay with you, then please send me the seeds from your money tree so I can can plant a few of my own. Then I won't have a problem with this bill.

First of all, your post is right wing blog/op-ed conjecture bullshit. Especially since Obama has voted to lower the taxes on the middle class...

The US spends less GNP %-wise on foreign aid than any other Western nation...

And why is it that you clowns never seem to worry about the fact that the US spends more on defense than almost all other nations combined, and is getting a decreasing return for doing so (i.e. higher oil prices)?

And secondly, you're post is completely off-topic. This thread is about drugs!

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by binnie
Not to me Tiki, I'd legalize the lot.

Someone who is a violent drunk is just as much as a threat to me as someone on fucked-up on crack: how can one be legal and the other not?

Legalize and regulate is the only way forward. There will always be a small part of the population that is addicted and essentially a social nuissance/danger. That is unavoidable. However, I firmly believe that proportion would be smaller if ALL drugs were readily available and therefore cheaper.

But to limit the discussion solely to pot, I just can't see how it is illegal. From a social point of view it's a harmless drug.

I'd legalize the lot, too...

But with the caveat that we would Socialize drugs, and let the gov't fuck up the industry. There would be a Constitutional amendment stipulating that no private company or entity could ever control the distribution, production quotas, nor land term storage of such drugs., But of course major drug companies would formulate and control the manufacture and dosage of such drugs according to gov't quotas and orders, and they would be subject to strict controls...

People could purchase and redeem cheap vouchers for a limited "dose" of their favorite drug, while the state taxes them and controls the distribution to get rid of the criminal profit motive. this of course would be combined with harsh penalties for the possession of large amounts of, and intent to sell, such drugs.

Some of the profits would go to mandatory funds for education and drug addiction treatment and outpatient services. People who are shown to be addicts (i.e. Heroin addicts) can receive medicinal doses that will be combined with a drug treatment program and psychological testing, like they do in the UK (they still do give heroin to addicts on a limited basis, right?)...

[binnie]

Nick, that is a great idea.

The voucher system could work. Not only would it be more affordable, it would also be more controllable. Most of the people I;ve known who are addicted don't want to deal with the dealers....

As for heroin addicts receiving small doses in the UK, I'm not sure. They can definitely get substitutes, like methodone, but I'm not informed enough to know about actual heroin. Drugs are a major, major problem in most of our inner-cities, as is alcohol abuse (although you'd never know it because it's never flagged-up as a problem, maybe because of the £10 Billion + tax revenue booze brings in each year?)

[Tiki-Tom]

Originally posted by binnie
Not to me Tiki, I'd legalize the lot.



But to limit the discussion solely to pot, I just can't see how it is illegal. From a social point of view it's a harmless drug.

As for pot, we agree. You won't find a pot head causing much harm to anyone. Violent crime and weed don't mix well, though I wouldn't call pot or any other drug totally harmless.

You can legalize all of it, but the problem would still exist. Users would still become addicts. It would still cost money. Addicts would still beg, borrow, and steal to get it. You may divert the profits from dealers, etc. to the government and legitimate businesses, but that is about the only "good" that will come of it.

It is complete backward thinking to say one bad drug (alcohol) is legal so we should make the entire lot legal as well. Its ill effects are already well documented yet is continually used as a scapegoat for why we should make every other drug legal. It's a good example of why other drugs should remain illicit. We all hear that we should drink responsibly. A lot of the time it catches up in one way or another to those who don't, and by that point it usually infringes on others. And besides, who ever heard of a responsible crackhead?


What about people who have children? I know, I know, people who use drugs don't care a lot about whether they are using in the presence of kids, but making them legal would in essence make it "okay" to do so. So theoretically, some of those kids wouldn't even be able to pass a drug test.




So let me get this straight.

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I'd legalize the lot, too...

Legalize it.

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
People could purchase and redeem cheap vouchers for a limited "dose" of their favorite drug...

Help people become addicted.

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
this of course would be combined with harsh penalties for the possession of large amounts of, and intent to sell, such drugs.

Punish them for becoming addicted.

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
People who are shown to be addicts (i.e. Heroin addicts) can receive medicinal doses that will be combined with a drug treatment program and psychological testing...

Then, help them become un-addicted.

Nick, if you want to live next door to some people with smack vouchers, more power to you. I'll steer clear of your neighborhood.