Obama has so far...

[TongueNGroove]

Obama has so far, stopped all trials in Gitmo, wants to move them all the U.S. and futher burden our courts with worthless terrorists who will be instantly killed in prison anyway, and has elected a tax dodger to run the IRS.


Yep, I can feel the "Change" is upon us.

[twonabomber]

the best qualified person to catch tax cheats is a tax cheat... :D

[bueno bob]

Obama has so far, stopped all trials in Gitmo, wants to move them all the U.S. and futher burden our courts with worthless terrorists who will be instantly killed in prison anyway, and has elected a tax dodger to run the IRS.

Yep, I can feel the "Change" is upon us.

At least they'll actually GET a trial, which is far more than what Gitmo is offering them. Hell, maybe they'll even be CHARGED with something.

I find it amusing that Repukes like to bitch about the "burden" on our courts to prosecute TERRORISTS WHO ATTACKED THE COUNTRY while at the same time thinking that committing acts that are in violation of wartime conventions and even basic fucking COMMON SENSE are a better alternative.

Who needs rights? What do you care whether or not we burn up any sense of fucking decency and American integrity to aim for a higher standard, a standard we've prided ourselves on for almost 100 years now?

Attitudes like yours are fucking disgusting. War criminals or not, America prides itself on the prospects of a speedy trial and fair justice and we do NOT lower ourselves to imprisonment without charge for an indefinite amount of time and we do NOT engage in torture, regardless of circumstance.

Maybe you're better off with the Taliban - they have no such restrictions. You'd probably see eye to eye with them more.

[Redballjets88]

Obama has so far, stopped all trials in Gitmo, wants to move them all the U.S. and futher burden our courts with worthless terrorists who will be instantly killed in prison anyway, and has elected a tax dodger to run the IRS.


Yep, I can feel the "Change" is upon us.

Yeah, I can't say I agree with these moves. I'm fine with closing gitmo, but bringing a bunch of terrorists into the states? What the fuck is that idea about?
Best case scenario they get killed in prison, if not they could just spread their bullshit ideals to Americans who are in prison.

And bringing a tax dodger in is totally dumb, and immoral. How does Obama expect this guy to come and help him raise taxes? I don't get it.

[bueno bob]

Yeah, I can't say I agree with these moves. I'm fine with closing gitmo, but bringing a bunch of terrorists into the states? What the fuck is that idea about?

I dunno, maybe a TRIAL?

Best case scenario they get killed in prison, if not they could just spread their bullshit ideals to Americans who are in prison.

Either way, I guess you've got no problems, then, right?

And bringing a tax dodger in is totally dumb, and immoral. How does Obama expect this guy to come and help him raise taxes? I don't get it.

Well, you're right about that...

[TongueNGroove]

At least they'll actually GET a trial, which is far more than what Gitmo is offering them. Hell, maybe they'll even be CHARGED with something.

I find it amusing that Repukes like to bitch about the "burden" on our courts to prosecute TERRORISTS WHO ATTACKED THE COUNTRY while at the same time thinking that committing acts that are in violation of wartime conventions and even basic fucking COMMON SENSE are a better alternative.

Who needs rights? What do you care whether or not we burn up any sense of fucking decency and American integrity to aim for a higher standard, a standard we've prided ourselves on for almost 100 years now?

Attitudes like yours are fucking disgusting. War criminals or not, America prides itself on the prospects of a speedy trial and fair justice and we do NOT lower ourselves to imprisonment without charge for an indefinite amount of time and we do NOT engage in torture, regardless of circumstance.

Maybe you're better off with the Taliban - they have no such restrictions. You'd probably see eye to eye with them more.

Define "rights". Last I heard these terrorists are not American citizens and are therefore not afforded rights held under the American Constitution.

These are not, common thief’s, these are killers or people conspiring to kill Americans at all costs, even if it means their own lives.

Now, last I heard there were something like 26 trials scheduled in the next 3 months that are now on hold. So obviously these people are not just sitting there rotting forever with no trial in sight. Can they set bail like in the U.S. and go free until their court date NO. WHY? Because they would never show up!

That does not mean we are out rounding up every innocent Muslim, like Hitler with the Jews, and condemning them to death.

These people were caught either in the act of terrorism, or conspiring to commit terrorism, or found with some sort of paraphernalia that incriminated them.

Do I feel sorry for them? Hell no! I feel sorry for the families of the 3000+ soldiers and 3000+ 911 victims that died because of these crazy sum bitches.

So do us all a favor and take your pity for the enemy and shove it up

[FORD]

The guys who bombed the World Trade Center in 1993 are in prison. The guy who bombed the Federal Building in OKC is burning in Hell, after being rightfully convicted under the law. The asshole who got caught crossing into the US in Port Angeles (with plans to light up the whole West Coast) is in prison. Eric Rudolph, Paul Hill, and some other rancid puke "Christian" terrorists who like to shoot people and blow up buildings while calling themselves "pro life" are in prison.

The constitutional system of trials and convictions works. There was never any reason to attempt anything else.

[LoungeMachine]

These are not, common thief’s, these are killers or people conspiring to kill Americans at all costs, even if it means their own lives.

:

How would you know?

Nothing like proven guilty by a jury of ONE. One, who has no fucking clue what the FUCK he's even talking about, that is.

[bueno bob]

Define "rights". Last I heard these terrorists are not American citizens and are therefore not afforded rights held under the American Constitution.

As prisoners of war, which is, I guess, what we're involved in, they are afforded numerous rights. A ton of which are not being met.

These are not, common thief’s, these are killers or people conspiring to kill Americans at all costs, even if it means their own lives.

I suppose your solution is better? Being held indefinitely, often without charges, and tortured at whim? I thought we were striving to be something better than common terrorists ourselves...maybe it's just me...

Now, last I heard there were something like 26 trials scheduled in the next 3 months that are now on hold. So obviously these people are not just sitting there rotting forever with no trial in sight. Can they set bail like in the U.S. and go free until their court date NO. WHY? Because they would never show up!

These trials should be conducted domestically, not at Gitmo. I find it odd that you're concerned about them sitting in jail for 3 whole months rotting when there are quite a few that have been sitting there for YEARS. And finally, I don't really think any judge is going to allow them bail, considering the charges are going to amount to domestic terrorism and acts of war...I don't think they're going to fall in a lot of sympathetic court rooms, but that's just my logic at work...

That does not mean we are out rounding up every innocent Muslim, like Hitler with the Jews, and condemning them to death.

Oh. Well I guess that settles it, then. You ARE aware, I take it, that the U.S. government is actively trying to convince the new democratic Iraqi government to round up people who "appear suspicious" in addition to known terrorists and criminals and just "hang onto them" for an indefinite amount of time - WITHOUT charges. Right? And, likewise, I take it you're aware that there are THOUSANDS of more prisoners in Iraq with less prospects than those at Gitmo, right?

But yeah, I'm sure you're right - I'm sure we're not just rounding up people regardless of guilt or innocence and subjecting them to indefinite imprisonment and torture up to and including death.

[B]These people were caught either in the act of terrorism, or conspiring to commit terrorism, or found with some sort of paraphernalia that incriminated them.

Do I feel sorry for them? Hell no! I feel sorry for the families of the 3000+ soldiers and 3000+ 911 victims that died because of these crazy sum bitches.

I don't feel any overwhelming sympanthy towards terrorists, either. But there is a difference between doing things the way we're supposed to and just taking shortcuts for expediencies sake.

So do us all a favor and take your pity for the enemy and shove it up

Yeah, dipshit, I'm a terrorist lover...you got me...

[hideyoursheep]

Anyone who is a citizen should be given due process, absolutely.

Anyone who isn't should be deported back to where they were.

[hideyoursheep]

Oh. Well I guess that settles it, then. You ARE aware, I take it, that the U.S. government is actively trying to convince the new democratic Iraqi government to round up people who "appear suspicious" in addition to known terrorists and criminals and just "hang onto them" for an indefinite amount of time - WITHOUT charges. Right? And, likewise, I take it you're aware that there are THOUSANDS of more prisoners in Iraq with less prospects than those at Gitmo, right?...

You have no idea, bob, what suspected terrorists in Iraq are subjected to if the Iraqis catch them first.

[LoungeMachine]

You have no idea, bob, what suspected terrorists in Iraq are subjected to if the Iraqis catch them first.

But is that the standard by which WE should be judged?

"Yeah, we violate human rights, but look at THOSE guys too"

[hideyoursheep]

No, man. The point is, they have a better chance of surviving if we catch them first.

I don't know if there are any prisoners from Iraq at Gitmo, but I can tell you, from what I've been told firsthand, once the ISF snatches them up, it's Fallujah time for the entire neighborhood. And there's nothing the US troops can do about it.
It's fucked up, but that's how they do their thing.

[bueno bob]

You have no idea, bob, what suspected terrorists in Iraq are subjected to if the Iraqis catch them first.

Oh, I have an idea. The unfortunate side to all this was that we invaded Iraq with the notion of bringing them "democracy". Our version of it, to be precise; now that we're encouraging them to detain criminals, and even suspected criminals (with or even without any real evidence) indefinitely without charges means to me that spreading our version of democracy there has been a complete failure and an absolute waste of lives, money and resources. To pretend otherwise at this point is just pointless.

We can't expect other countries to be what we are or practice what we practice, but instead of attempting to force it on them, we can at the very least set an example for others to look up to.

Guantanamo, and to be frank the entire legacy of George W. Bush policy, is hardly the example that comes to mind when I think of what America should present itself to the world as.

"Well, they're worse than we are, we're just using their tactics!" is a surefire way to invite the disdain of the world and the wrath of terrorist organizations who would give ANYTHING to watch our corrupt empire crumble into the dust. Just a cursory view of the last eight years and our failing reputation world wide is evidence enough to that.

[hideyoursheep]

Well, I can't argue with that.