Bailouts: A complete fraud against the american worker

[GAR]

He's pissed me off more times than I care to count thus far.

Wow, truly repentant already - and it didn't even take a month when I predicted six. Thanks for showing you had a soul, Lounge.

[hideyoursheep]

Leave it to Binnie.....to inject civility in The Front Line.......

Good 'ol Binnie!

Here he is, reminding us that somewhere along the line, the civility we brought over from the Crown has somehow been lost.


























But then again, Brits have been known to piss on one another or rub their knobs on whoever falls asleep first as a joke!

[ULTRAMAN VH]

I see.....so the fact that the first bailout was basically a give away to the banks. 18.4 billion went to bonuses/salaries and zero accountability, Doled out by a Repuke Appointed Treasury Secretary.......The AP asked 21 banks what they did with the TARP money and all of them said, "We don't know". Couple that with the Treasury actually overpaying for......

"The Treasury Department overpaid for the assets it purchased as part of the $700 billion financial sector bailout, according to testimony of a bailout oversight official before Congress on Thursday.

At a Senate Banking Committee hearing, Elizabeth Warren, head of the Congressional Oversight Panel, testified that the more than $254 billion in assets that the government purchased in 2008 are worth just $176 billion - $78 billion less than what Treasury paid for them." Link

You have the balls to say "Spendocrats".......this was done by a Republican appointed TS........ what part of this don't you fucking get?



Here again.....did you just fucking come out of a comma yesterday? Earmarks......WTF! 18.4 billion dollars went to bounes/salaries and the rest of the first half of the TARP bailout is unaccounted for.....techincally, not earmarks and better word for it is gifts.......

Socialism? The Government doubled under Bush and so did our National Debt......how about borrowing Trillions of dollars from China, Comrade, to support a failed occupation......You know the fucking Chinese, one of the last bastions of.....oh, what's the word I'm looking for COMMUNISM!!!!!!!!

Wow, I guess this is the first time the stock market has taken a nose dive.....it was so robust under Bush's Presidency......

"Although history may state the actual market crash occurred on Monday, October 6, 2008, the market experienced eight consecutive trading days of negative movement starting on October 1, 2008. The table below shows the decline of the Dow Jones Industrial Average from October 1st through October 10th.

Date DJIA Close Point Change % Change
October 1, 2008 10,831.07 -19.59 -0.18%
October 2, 2008 10,482.85 -348.22 -3.22%
October 3, 2008 10,325.38 -157.47 -1.50%
October 6, 2008 9,955.50 -369.88 -3.58%
October 7, 2008 9,447.11 -508.39 -5.11%
October 8, 2008 9,258.10 -189.01 -2.00%
October 9, 2008 8,579.19 -678.91 -7.33%
October 10, 2008 8,451.19 -128.00 -1.49%

During these eight trading days, the DJIA would drop a total of 2,399.47 points or 22.11%. The market would rebound sharply on Monday October 13 and rise 936.42 points only to drop 733.08 points on Wednesday of that same week.
October was shaping up to be a volatile month because investors were reacting to the worrisome credit market news that started back in March 2008." Link

Kinda puts that puny 400 point drop in perspective, doesn't it.

We haven't even touched on the corporate criminal activity of the past 8 years.....Enron, Haliburton and on and on and on.......

In summation, Obama hasn't signed anything yet and has stated publicly that the 18.4 billion that the Crooks took is going to be paid back.......the next day, the stock market drops 400 points.....hmm, the 2 aren't related......Obama plainly took yesterday off and single handedly traded on Wall Street all day and fucking made the stock market plumet.......sure!

Thanks for the Ford/Lounge Queen styled, Bush Bash, rehash. Actually it was more articulate than anything those two have posted. But golly gee, nobody has done that here before, how original. I think I clearly stated at the top of my missive that the past administration has caused this country alot of grief. With that said, I was looking for more of your opinion on the future and the current Bail out package that is going to ram the middle class tax payer in the ass without the use of vaseline. There are alot of people to blame for the current mess this country is in. If you are the centrist you claim to be, why didn't you bring up Bill Clinton and his Fair Housing Act which basically gave carte blanche to americans to purchase homes they could not afford, causing a good portion of the problems we have today. Anyway, I wasn't trying to start a pissing contest with you, I enjoy reading your posts.

[kwame k]

You're welcome....as for the style of my reply....so was it Lounge or FORD who invented the multi-quote function......just want to know who to thank for that useful function. Personally, Bueno Bob's use of the multi-quote had more of an influence but.........

Classic deflection......attack the poster and not the content when you have nothing to come back with.....change the question and try to somehow....not really sure, what your point is....

So Clinton created the Fair Housing Act......thanks for that piece of information......I feel like such a fool for the 9 years I was a licensed Realtor in Michigan, thinking that the Fair Housing Act was an anti-discrimination Law that was enacted in 1968........Had I known it was an evil device created by Clinton to create the Housing bubble that would help cripple our economy during Bush's Administration.....I would of quit real estate in protest.......

Basic Facts About the Fair Housing Act
What Housing Is Covered?

The Fair Housing Act covers most housing. In some circumstances, the Act exempts owner-occupied buildings with no more than four units, single-family housing sold or rented without the use of a broker, and housing operated by organizations and private clubs that limit occupancy to members.

What Is Prohibited?
In the Sale and Rental of Housing: No one may take any of the following actions based on race, color, national origin, religion, sex, familial status or handicap:

Refuse to rent or sell housing
Refuse to negotiate for housing
Make housing unavailable
Deny a dwelling
Set different terms, conditions or privileges for sale or rental of a dwelling
Provide different housing services or facilities
Falsely deny that housing is available for inspection, sale, or rental
For profit, persuade owners to sell or rent (blockbusting) or
Deny anyone access to or membership in a facility or service (such as a multiple listing service) related to the sale or rental of housing.
In Mortgage Lending: No one may take any of the following actions based on race, color, national origin, religion, sex, familial status or handicap (disability):

Refuse to make a mortgage loan
Refuse to provide information regarding loans
Impose different terms or conditions on a loan, such as different interest rates, points, or fees
Discriminate in appraising property
Refuse to purchase a loan or
Set different terms or conditions for purchasing a loan.
In Addition: It is illegal for anyone to:

Threaten, coerce, intimidate or interfere with anyone exercising a fair housing right or assisting others who exercise that right
Advertise or make any statement that indicates a limitation or preference based on race, color, national origin, religion, sex, familial status, or handicap. This prohibition against discriminatory advertising applies to single-family and owner-occupied housing that is otherwise exempt from the Fair Housing Act.
Additional Protection if You Have a Disability
If you or someone associated with you:

Have a physical or mental disability (including hearing, mobility and visual impairments, chronic alcoholism, chronic mental illness, AIDS, AIDS Related Complex and mental retardation) that substantially limits one or more major life activities
Have a record of such a disability or
Are regarded as having such a disability

Link

Seriously, I blame the housing crisis on the banks 80% and stupid consumers 20%..........remember the process for the majority of home buyers......the order may change but the process is usually the same........You get Pre-Qualified by a mortgage broker/bank, this is how much you can afford to buy....you find the house and make an offer.........an appraisal of the property is done by a Licensed Appraiser......if, in his opinion, the value is there.......the mortgage is processed in underwriting....An Underwriter looks at all the documents verifies the information you gave and OK's the loan for final approval, if needed........you close on the property.

I used to tell clients who were using pay stubs with overtime and both the husband and wife's income to qualify........."What are you going to do if....A. one of you loses a job. B. They cut out overtime". Still comes back to a bank cut the check!

3 different steps had to be done for you to buy a house........if the house was over-inflated then why did the Appraiser find the value? If you could not afford the payments after an ARM kicked in then why did the banks give you the money? If you could never afford the house in the first place why didn't the Underwriter, when verifying your income to debt ratio, reject the loan?

Most people who are losing their houses aren't on a refinance or an ARM.......at least here in Michigan.......they are walking away from 30 year fixed.....they don't have a fucking job anymore..........nothing to do with what they can afford, since they had a job when they purchased the home......

Yes, people extended themselves way too much and got buried in credit but the point remains.....someone OK'd it and that sure as fuck wasn't Clinton......

The banks went into a frenzy of bad lending but the banks were borrowing money based on DEBT not on assests.......The banks fucked this country up and Wall Street.........Not Bill Clinton! Was his the Perfect Presidency? Fuck no, he made a shit load of mistakes but we had a surplus under his watch and a doubling of the National debt under Bush.........Like Clinton is not a 100% at fault but was running the country, he gets the blame for anything that happened under his watch........Well, the same goes for Bush! He may not of personally created all the mess we are in now but it happened under his watch.


As far as the current Bailout or Stimulus Package.......Obama is doing a fuck of a lot better putting oversight and regulation on it than Bush did.......To me it shows the difference between a guy who gets it and someone just doesn't give a fuck.......Bush believes that the market should be unregulated and gave the first half of the TARP money as a blank check......well that didn't work.....Obama is going to try and make sure that at least they account for the money...........

Will this work? Honestly......I have no clue......never been in a Great Depression.........but if it can rebuild our infrastructure, put people back to work temporarily, fix our schools, give the middle class a tax break and guarantee that banks never get out of line like this again........don't know about you but I say give it a try.......Doing what Bush did.......basiclly, nothing sure as the fuck didn't work.....

[WACF]

Seriously, I blame the housing crisis on the banks 80% and stupid consumers 20%..........remember the process for the majority of home buyers......the order may change but the process is usually the same........You get Pre-Qualified by a mortgage broker/bank, this is how much you can afford to buy....you find the house and make an offer.........an appraisal of the property is done by a Licensed Appraiser......if, in his opinion, the value is there.......the mortgage is processed in underwriting....An Underwriter looks at all the documents verifies the information you gave and OK's the loan for final approval, if needed........you close on the property.

I used to tell clients who were using pay stubs with overtime and both the husband and wife's income to qualify........."What are you going to do if....A. one of you loses a job. B. They cut out overtime". Still comes back to a bank cut the check!

3 different steps had to be done for you to buy a house........if the house was over-inflated then why did the Appraiser find the value? If you could not afford the payments after an ARM kicked in then why did the banks give you the money? If you could never afford the house in the first place why didn't the Underwriter, when verifying your income to debt ratio, reject the loan?

Most people who are losing their houses aren't on a refinance or an ARM.......at least here in Michigan.......they are walking away from 30 year fixed.....they don't have a fucking job anymore..........nothing to do with what they can afford, since they had a job when they purchased the home......

Yes, people extended themselves way too much and got buried in credit but the point remains.....someone OK'd it and that sure as fuck wasn't Clinton......

The banks went into a frenzy of bad lending but the banks were borrowing money based on DEBT not on assests.......The banks fucked this country up and Wall Street.........Not Bill Clinton! Was his the Perfect Presidency? Fuck no, he made a shit load of mistakes but we had a surplus under his watch and a doubling of the National debt under Bush.........Like Clinton is not a 100% at fault but was running the country, he gets the blame for anything that happened under his watch........Well, the same goes for Bush! He may not of personally created all the mess we are in now but it happened under his watch.


As far as the current Bailout or Stimulus Package.......Obama is doing a fuck of a lot better putting oversight and regulation on it than Bush did.......To me it shows the difference between a guy who gets it and someone just doesn't give a fuck.......Bush believes that the market should be unregulated and gave the first half of the TARP money as a blank check......well that didn't work.....Obama is going to try and make sure that at least they account for the money...........

Will this work? Honestly......I have no clue......never been in a Great Depression.........but if it can rebuild our infrastructure, put people back to work temporarily, fix our schools, give the middle class a tax break and guarantee that banks never get out of line like this again........don't know about you but I say give it a try.......Doing what Bush did.......basiclly, nothing sure as the fuck didn't work.....

Part of the reason Canada is surviving this is because our banks are much better regulated.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090211.wvolckersb12/BNStory/National/home

Obama adviser looks to Canada's financial system

TORONTO — The United States should emerge from the economic crisis with a two-part financial system that places tighter restrictions on banks, says former Federal Reserve chairman Paul Volcker.

To prevent another banking crisis from undermining the economy, the U.S. financial system must turn back the clock to a time when commercial banks were the core of the credit system, Mr. Volcker said. He is chairing Barack Obama's new Economic Recovery Advisory Board, which was unveiled last week and will advise the U.S. President on programs to jump-start the economy.

The system that Mr.Volcker envisions “looks more like the Canadian system than it does like the American system,” he told a Toronto audience Wednesday night.

.......


Part of your post I find surprising is using O/T as part of the income to qualify.

Whenever I have bought...I always had to get a verification of employment from work...and it could only have my base wage on it.

Overtime, shift differentials and bonus' were not to be included...and for good reason IMO.

You could include a spouse's income though.

I do blame consumers quite abit though.

I know guys that refinace just to buy a new truck or all new appliances.

You pay a pretty penny for that stuff in the end...

There should be a rule...You do not use your house as an ATM machine...

[FORD]

Even the Chinese and the Saudis - the very countries that the BCE has sold us out to for the last 28 years - were making public statements yesterday about how unregulated predatory capitalism was fucking up this country.

The Chi-coms and the Terrorist funders even get it, but the Repukes (and DLC/Blue Balled Cowards) in the Senate don't??

[kwame k]

Part of the reason Canada is surviving this is because our banks are much better regulated.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090211.wvolckersb12/BNStory/National/home

Obama adviser looks to Canada's financial system

TORONTO — The United States should emerge from the economic crisis with a two-part financial system that places tighter restrictions on banks, says former Federal Reserve chairman Paul Volcker.

To prevent another banking crisis from undermining the economy, the U.S. financial system must turn back the clock to a time when commercial banks were the core of the credit system, Mr. Volcker said. He is chairing Barack Obama's new Economic Recovery Advisory Board, which was unveiled last week and will advise the U.S. President on programs to jump-start the economy.

The system that Mr.Volcker envisions “looks more like the Canadian system than it does like the American system,” he told a Toronto audience Wednesday night.

.......


Part of your post I find surprising is using O/T as part of the income to qualify.

Whenever I have bought...I always had to get a verification of employment from work...and it could only have my base wage on it.

Overtime, shift differentials and bonus' were not to be included...and for good reason IMO.

You could include a spouse's income though.

I do blame consumers quite abit though.

I know guys that refinace just to buy a new truck or all new appliances.

You pay a pretty penny for that stuff in the end...

There should be a rule...You do not use your house as an ATM machine...

Can't say OT was the standard but I watched several couples use pay stubs that were purely OT.........hey, they played the game.......they may have gotten burned.....who knows..........

Even though housing was a part of it......oil and gas played it's part, too...over 85% of all consumer goods are trucked to the point of purchase.......$4 a gallon gas meant that all consumer goods went up......the banks hording the first part of the bailout and not lending has really hurt our economic growth.....which is non-existent.......borrowing close to a trillion dollars from China to finance a losing occupation hasn't helped, either......


Basically, Bush's tenure as President will go down in history as what not to do.........

[LoungeMachine]

.....the banks hording the first part of the bailout and not lending has really hurt our economic growth...........

I STILL can't understand for the life of me, WHY THE FUCK BUSHCO gave out the initial TARP funds WITH NO STRINGS ATTACHED


How fucking hard was that?

You want US TAXPAYER money to bail you out?

It MUST be put onto the credit market, you must prove to us every 30 days this has happened, and NO FUNDS may be used for bonuses, jets, offices, or junkets.

BREAK THIS SIMPLE RULE, WE CALL THE NOTE IMMEDIATELY.



How fucking HARD would that have been?

[kwame k]

Well, that would be Socialism.........putting any kind of regulation on anything.....heaven forbid the Holy Keepers of the sacred Fiscally Responsibility be called to task when they completely and utterly dropped the fucking ball.......Fucking Cheney's interview last week, he said no one knew things were going as bad as they were.....Wha? We've been warned and the telltale signs were there, starting around Aug. of 2007......Cheney and Bush on the other hand didn't have a clue........now how this is a liberal slant when THE FUCKING WORDS CAME OUT OF HIS MOUTH! well, I never listen to Rush to hear his spin on it......

I keep laughing my ass off at these guys saying Obama is going to create a Socialist Society........When Bush's tenure bloated Government to twice it's size and double the National Debt........ Government spying on Americans and butting into our daily lives.....Oh Obama's a Socialist........No fucking Bush was! Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck='s

No wait it's Clinton's fault! It's Obama's fault.........

Pesky things like verifiable fact and the inescapable fact that the first 6 years of Bush's Presidency the Repukes had the slam dunk Majority........seems to escape these guys...

Yes, for the millionth time......Congress fucked up by trusting Hammering Hank to dole out the candy unchecked but....Bush should of called foul on this......you know like Obama did......fucking pesky facts again.

How about explaining to me why Donny Rumsfeld on 9/11 was saying how can we tie Saddam into this.........Brilliant camera shot of his handwritten note saying this, PBS Front Line, Rumsfeld's War........Iraq wasn't an intelligence failure.....when the concrete proof is that the NeoCons already had the pre-conceived notion of invading Iraq and disregarded all the brilliant Intelligence Analyst saying there was no proof......then when called out on it said it was faulty Intelligence......Come on now!

Try and white wash and deflect blame all you want......those people are really Drinking The Kool-Aid!

[WACF]

Socialism....a word that is over used right now.

Obama may have some socialist ideals...but too me still looks right of center.

IMO...a true Lefty will not be president anymore than a true Righty will be PM of mine...it just won't fly.

The best place to be is governed is from the center...with a slight lean to the right...once again that is just my opinion.

[kwame k]

And a valid opinion it is.........that's what I don't get.....if you even peruse Obama's history, he's not a left wing liberal......look at how he ran the Harvard Law review....from the center........The guy's made a career of being in the center but.......he is a Mulsim and the rumor is his wife has black children, so..........

[ZahZoo]

This is shit that will definately stimulate the economy... bullshit!!

Tucked in among the vast construction projects and tax relief programs is an effort to revive a law that's been dead for over 60 years that would provide up to $198 million in pensions for Filipinos who fought alongside the U.S. during WWII. U.S. citizens would get $15,000 a year, but even non-citizens would still get $9,000 a year.

The bill also invests heavily in research and technology. NASA is set to receive $450 million for "Science" and another $200 million for "Aeronautics."

More than $28 billion is being provided to put kids in special education, Head Start and child care and development programs for disadvantaged children.

FOXNews.com readers pored over the package and found a host of expenditures that might not pump money in any time soon. What follows is a list of some of the more fascinating -- if less stimulating -- items in the bill:

-- $100 million for the Lead-Based Paint Hazard Control Grant Program
-- $200 million to the Leaking Underground Storage Tank Trust Fund Program
-- $300 million for "Violence Against Women Prevention and Prosecution Programs"
-- $900 million for the IRS for the "Limitation on Administrative Expenses"
-- $1 million for the Railroad Retirement Board for administrative costs
-- $2 billion for the Drinking Water State Revolving Act
-- $50 million for Health and Human Services to carry out injury prevention programs
-- $1.1 billion for studies on the effectiveness of different medical treatments -- $200 million to upgrade labs and facilities for the Department of Agriculture "to improve workplace safety and mission-area efficiencies"
-- $10 million for urban canal inspection
-- $16 billion to pay for student financial aid
-- $1 billion to pay for the U.S. Census
-- $600 million to pay for a fuel-efficient federal auto fleet
-- $650 million for the Digital Converter Box Program to help the constantly delayed transition from analog television
-- $485 million to the Forest Service for "hazardous fuels reduction and hazard mitigation activities in areas at high risk of catastrophic wildfire"
-- Up to $1 billion for "summer activities" for youths as old as 24
-- $40 million for the occupational research agenda
-- $3 billion for the Centers for Disease Control wellness programs and vaccinations
-- $410 million for Indian health facilities
-- $2.4 billion for carbon-capture demonstrations

[Nickdfresh]

This is shit that will definately stimulate the economy... bullshit!!

Tucked in among the vast construction projects and tax relief programs is an effort to revive a law that's been dead for over 60 years that would provide up to $198 million in pensions for Filipinos who fought alongside the U.S. during WWII. U.S. citizens would get $15,000 a year, but even non-citizens would still get $9,000 a year.

The bill also invests heavily in research and technology. NASA is set to receive $450 million for "Science" and another $200 million for "Aeronautics."

More than $28 billion is being provided to put kids in special education, Head Start and child care and development programs for disadvantaged children.

FOXNews.com readers pored over the package and found a host of expenditures that might not pump money in any time soon. What follows is a list of some of the more fascinating -- if less stimulating -- items in the bill:

-- $100 million for the Lead-Based Paint Hazard Control Grant Program
-- $200 million to the Leaking Underground Storage Tank Trust Fund Program
-- $300 million for "Violence Against Women Prevention and Prosecution Programs"
-- $900 million for the IRS for the "Limitation on Administrative Expenses"
-- $1 million for the Railroad Retirement Board for administrative costs
-- $2 billion for the Drinking Water State Revolving Act
-- $50 million for Health and Human Services to carry out injury prevention programs
-- $1.1 billion for studies on the effectiveness of different medical treatments -- $200 million to upgrade labs and facilities for the Department of Agriculture "to improve workplace safety and mission-area efficiencies"
-- $10 million for urban canal inspection
-- $16 billion to pay for student financial aid
-- $1 billion to pay for the U.S. Census
-- $600 million to pay for a fuel-efficient federal auto fleet
-- $650 million for the Digital Converter Box Program to help the constantly delayed transition from analog television
-- $485 million to the Forest Service for "hazardous fuels reduction and hazard mitigation activities in areas at high risk of catastrophic wildfire"
-- Up to $1 billion for "summer activities" for youths as old as 24
-- $40 million for the occupational research agenda
-- $3 billion for the Centers for Disease Control wellness programs and vaccinations
-- $410 million for Indian health facilities
-- $2.4 billion for carbon-capture demonstrations

Oh please! Now you read the fucking bills?

[ELVIS]

Carbon capture demonstrations ???????????

$2.4 billion ?????????????





America as we know it is FINISHED!

[LoungeMachine]

If that's true, then that's BULLSHIT