Military Deserters Once Again Flock to Canada

[mwsully]

Exactly! While I will never agree with Bush's War - and this is Bush's War no matter who is in Office - I have little respect for a deserter. While never serving myself I'm sure the US Government made it crystal clear what might happen to you (i.e., advanced forms of death) when you sign be be in the military. In other words, they knew the shit they were getting into and people like Jeffery House are total assholes for telling them otherwise.



Iraq is America's Viet Nam of the 21st Century and to see the needless waste of life for oil greed embarrasses me as an American. But again, when you sign up to join you're in for the long haul no matter if the situation is war or peacetime; it's like a doctor walking out on your open heart surgery because the sight of human organs grosses him the fuck out. Little respect for these people, indeed.

Kristy, I'm sure you've seen the military commercials where the guy rockclimbs an seemingly impossible mountain and then once to the summit, he transforms into a suited military soldier? How is that full disclosure?
Have you seen military recruiters in action? They are up there with car salesmen, maybe better.

How can we talk about deserters upholding their contract when the U.S. government clearly has not? Again, from the lack of armor-plated vehicles and bullet-proof vests, government cover-up of Gulf War Syndrome, and inadequate support for veterans, our government broke the contract.

[Nickdfresh]

How can we talk about deserters upholding their contract when the U.S. government clearly has not? Again, from the lack of armor-plated vehicles and bullet-proof vests, government cover-up of Gulf War Syndrome, and inadequate support for veterans, our government broke the contract.

There is no "contract" regarding the quality of armored vehicles nor body armor. There have always been fuck-ups although the attack on Iraq and the resulting Operation Clusterfuck for the years following certainly ranks as one of the biggest US military blunders. However, there have always been mistakes and I don't believe soldiers should basically be able to quit because things are bad. That would completely undermine good-order and military discipline, especially when those soldiers volunteered and there attack on Iraq was legitimized by the "authorization to use force." Something that I believe SHOULD be against US law, but isn't. I think we should only allow military operations on a certain strategic level other than say localized small-scale counterterrorist operations and aid programs with the declaration of war by Congress...

Having said that, the Bush Admin was almost criminal in its incompetence and Rumsfled was the singular biggest fucking disaster this country ever had at SOD and certainly heads should have rolled. What's interesting is that the War was "saved" in the "Surge" by people who were the dissenters, or were against it from the outset and were crying bloody-murder over the militaries singularly ignorant conduct of the Iraqi Occupation until things changed in 2006, but only as the Democrats took over Congress and it was clear the obstinate dickheads in the Bush Admin were desperate to "change course" fucking FINALLY after a clueless conduct of something they clearly had no idea about...

[alicebowie]

There was a draft during Vietnam which changes things drastically...

I think we could make the argument that if we had a draft now, the retarded second Gulf War would never have happened, even with the Freedom Fries clamor of chickenhawks everywhere...

This is why I believe we should still have a limited conscription/public service where young men and women must either serve in the Nat'l Guard or Reserves on a limited basis, or do some sort of public service...

I'm not getting your logic.How would having a draft have prevented the
second gulf war? I know one politician made some comment that the
congress would have thought twice about approving an invasion if there
was a draft because their kids might be drafted.Politicians have always
been able to pull strings to keep their children from serving.

[Nickdfresh]

I'm not getting your logic.How would having a draft have prevented the
second gulf war? I know one politician made some comment that the
congress would have thought twice about approving an invasion if there
was a draft because their kids might be drafted.Politicians have always
been able to pull strings to keep their children from serving.

Yes, but voters get pissed when their kids are sent to shitholes. This was illustrated during Vietnam, when mass-protests against the War virtually stopped overnight after the repeal of the Draft in 1973. Young male college-age kids are also a big group that one wants to lull into apathy, and doing things like drafting them and making them pay for your shitty policies is also a big political gamble...And yes, politicians can pull strings, but their kids not serving when everyone else is can also become a very negative entitlement campaign issue...

[MUSICMANN]

The only thing that turned this war in Iraq into a clusterfuck , is IRAN, period. You can agree or disagree on why and the reasons for going there, and even question Bush's policies. The thing you can't do is turn a blind eye on Iran's involvement.

They have funneled more weapons, explosives and soilders into Iraq, and it's all because they themselves do not ever want to see a democratic Iraq. The hardliners in Iran, the people of power are like everyone else that is in control. Their main fear, is of course, losing power. In which is all likely with the spread of democracy in that region.

The day we went into Iraq and took Saddam out of power the people were rejoicing. Do you honestly think that those people didn't feel a huge release of oppression being lifted off them.

If it wasn't for outside interference, this war in Iraq would have been a monumentous success and would have been over 6 years ago. They may have had some infighting going on between the Sunni's and Shiite, only because the Sunni's had lost their total control over the country.

Still though, the war is what it is, and compared to all other US wars, the amount of deaths when compared to the length of time involved, is a still an incrediable feat, even though that low of a number doesn't and shouldn't bode well for any family that had to endure a death of a loved one.

I am a firm believer that the military doesn't try and pull anything over anyone's eye's when enlisting. When you volenteer for the military, does that man or woman actually think that all they are required to do is travel to some other part of the world without the risk of seeing conflict to carry out their tour of duty.

Do they actually believe that they signed up for library duty. If i decide to go into law enforcement, i am atleast smart enough to know, someday i may have to draw my weapon and kill someone.

Remember, A warrior prays for peace. A true warrior places him or herself in harms way to defend, protect or save others even if they are strangers and even at the cost of the warrior’s own life.

So to all the deserters, you are scum and do not represents what makes this country great.

[LoungeMachine]

The only thing that turned this war in Iraq into a clusterfuck , is IRAN, period. .

Bullshit, moron.

Disbanding the Iraqi Army, and sending them out into the country armed with no jobs, money or future was a mistake...

NOT listening to Gen Eric Shinseki was a MAJOR mistake.

Not planning for the occupation was a mistake.

Giving the JOBS to American contractors, and Syrian Slave Laborers was a mistake. Should have given the jobs, money, and sweat equity to the PEOPLE of Iraq.

Not taking care of the INFRASTRUCTURE was a mistake.

Securing the oil feilds, but not the ammo dumps was a mistake.

So take your period, and shove it up your ass.



Idiot.

[MUSICMANN]

Bullshit, moron.

Disbanding the Iraqi Army, and sending them out into the country armed with no jobs, money or future was a mistake...

NOT listening to Gen Eric Shinseki was a MAJOR mistake.

Not planning for the occupation was a mistake.

Giving the JOBS to American contractors, and Syrian Slave Laborers was a mistake. Should have given the jobs, money, and sweat equity to the PEOPLE of Iraq.

Not taking care of the INFRASTRUCTURE was a mistake.

Securing the oil feilds, but not the ammo dumps was a mistake.

So take your period, and shove it up your ass.



Idiot.

Once again you seem to just amaze me with your insight. The rebuilding of infrastructure, the helping of getting the new government in place and the overall rebuilding and leaving Iraq was hindered and made into a cluster fuck, because of outside intervention from from Iran and their crony Al-Sadr and his thugs.

All this mass confusion and roadside bombing's were because of an outside influence that can directly be linked to Iran, Period. And you can shove that up your ASS!

[LoungeMachine]

Yes, Iran disbanded the Iraqi Army...

Yes, Iran hired Blackwater

Yes, Iran failed to supply uparmored Humvees.


Typical RePuke response. Blame the boogie man for your own fuckups.

BushCO failed to give our troops the planning, support, and tools needed to secure the occupation.

Who should have secured the borders?




moron

[MUSICMANN]

[QUOTE=LoungeMachine;1333673]

Yes, Iran disbanded the Iraqi Army...

Yes, Iran hired Blackwater

Yes, Iran failed to supply uparmored Humvees.


Typical RePuke response. Blame the boogie man for your own fuckups.

BushCO failed to give our troops the planning, support, and tools needed to secure the occupation.

Who should have secured the borders?


Are just retarded? the boogyman. Dude for someone who thinks they are so smart , you are a dumbass. Those things have nothing in the world to do with Iran's involvement with the war in Iraq.

All the major unrest in that country can be linked to Iran and Al-Sadr. I'm not sure, but i will guess that over 90% of roadside bombs that has killed most of American soilders have been carried out by Al-Sadr's men. Most of the explosives used in those bombs came from Iran as well as most weapons.

Where do you think Al-Sadr is at right now, you guessed it, Iran. Yes we went in and defeated Iraq's army, but that didn't cause the unrest and violence that has plagued the country for the last 6 years.

All the tools were given to the military. Yes once the shitstorm that came about from the daily roadside bombs and suicide bombers started, more armor was needed, but it wouldn't have been needed if there wouldn't have been outside interference.

What is happening today in Iraq should have been happening years ago. Violence is almost non exsistent and the government, the Sunni's and Shiite's should have been doing what they are doing now. Compromising and working for a common goal.

All that is happening, could have happened if it were not for Iran and outside interference. the problem you're having is that you just can't and never will admit, it could have been a great success for Bush.

[FORD]

Al Sadr is a Shia NATIONALIST. He doesn't want Iran running Iraq, he wants Iraqi Shias running Iraq. Or rather what he considers the Shia territory since "Iraq" was an artificial construct of the British Empire, and the nationalists in the Sunni, Kurd, and Shia camps would really rather be on their own anyway, much like the situation in the 1990's when the Commies pulled out of what was then called "Yugoslavia"

[LoungeMachine]

LMAO @ MUSICWOMANN

Get your fact straight before you mouth off.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

I'd rather Bush had just told the truth, that we're taking Sadam out and going to try to instate some democracy in the middle east to be fair with, or even control oil distribution, but I guess that's a wild dream...

Perhaps if Bush himself had gone to Vietnam, instead of having Daddy pull some strings and get him into the Alabama National Guard, his perception would have been much different and he would have thought twice before he sent troops into Iraq....

[LoungeMachine]

All the major unrest in that country can be linked to Iran and Al-Sadr. I'm not sure, but i will guess that over 90% of roadside bombs that has killed most of American soilders have been carried out by Al-Sadr's men. .

Not sure.

I will guess.


Pretty much sums up your entire "theory"

[LoungeMachine]

Perhaps if Bush himself had gone to Vietnam, instead of having Daddy pull some strings and get him into the Alabama National Guard, his perception would have been much different and he would have thought twice before he sent troops into Iraq....

Couldn't agree MORE.



Combine that, with the NEED to show daddy how a war in the desert is REALLY fought......

sad.

[MUSICMANN]

Al Sadr is a Shia NATIONALIST. He doesn't want Iran running Iraq, he wants Iraqi Shias running Iraq. Or rather what he considers the Shia territory since "Iraq" was an artificial construct of the British Empire, and the nationalists in the Sunni, Kurd, and Shia camps would really rather be on their own anyway, much like the situation in the 1990's when the Commies pulled out of what was then called "Yugoslavia"

You are correct. Still doesn't change the fact that his malitia has caused the most unrest, deaths and violence against the american military and Iraq's own people than anything else. He has a true hatred for any outside intervention and was probably dancing in the streets when Saddam was hung.

His invovlement with Iran though seems purely out of the situation that presented itself when we decided to go into Iraq. He couldn't rule Iraq with Saddam there. Saddam hated Iran, and once we removed him, the partnership between Al-Sadr and Iran was made to get us out.

This is why Al-Sadr has taken haven in Iran when major fighting has broken out in Sadr city and surrounding areas. Now that things have calmed down and Obama has set a miltiary drawdown plan he has called for his men to lay down their arms.

How much control he still wants and how much chaos he still may unleash is anyone's guess. The point i'm trying to get across is that, this war would have probably went to plan, if it were not for Iran and Al-Sadr's interference.

Still doesn't change the fact that the decision to go into Iraq in the first place should or shouldn't have been made.